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Old 01-24-2007   #1
money32
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Default Rating the offensive line

Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?

Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?
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Old 01-24-2007   #2
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Originally Posted by money32 View Post
Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?

Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?
This ones easy..........both
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Old 01-24-2007   #3
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Originally Posted by money32 View Post
Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?

Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?
O-line's still a work in progress. flanagan looked like he's lost his legs, pitts was consistant, and weary impressed some folks. weigert cant survive half a season and mckinney looks good for a couple games (same as always, lucky for him his only games were at the end of the season). salaam needs to be gone.

spencer's still a question, we're waiting to see if the cartilage(?) starts growing ... should only be a couple weeks before we're more certain.

winston was shaky but showed real good progress. i dont think he's starter material yet, but he might be with a full offseason to work on a few things.

both. center's up in the air, and i'd like a starting right tackle. if spencer doesnt come back we need a left tackle, too. we also need depth all over.
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Old 01-24-2007   #4
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

Quote:
Originally Posted by money32 View Post
Could somebody give me a run down of how the OL looks right now?

Is Spencer going to be ready for season?

How did Winston perform this year?

Do we need another starter or just more depth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
O-line's still a work in progress. flanagan looked like he's lost his legs, pitts was consistant, and weary impressed some folks. weigert cant survive half a season and mckinney looks good for a couple games (same as always, lucky for him his only games were at the end of the season). salaam needs to be gone.

spencer's still a question, we're waiting to see if the cartilage(?) starts growing ... should only be a couple weeks before we're more certain.

winston was shaky but showed real good progress. i dont think he's starter material yet, but he might be with a full offseason to work on a few things.

both. center's up in the air, and i'd like a starting right tackle. if spencer doesnt come back we need a left tackle, too. we also need depth all over.
As the season ended, the line looked pretty abysmal. Salaam had a hard time keeping DEs from Carr, and so did Winston. The middle of the line probably looked the best it had with McKinney playing center, and the guards were erratic. They'd play well at one point, and then not so well the next.

I don't think many linemen will be cut. I suspect a lot of these guys will be kept as reserves/depth, so hopefully that answers your question. That includes Salaam, too, unfortunately.

Everything I have heard is that Spencer is doing well in his recovery and will be back. Since Weigert is clearly not the starting right tackle, that makes Winston the starter. Still too early for him to be starting, IMO, but despite his struggles, he showed improvement last season, and he is the best player available.

Although the guards seemed erratic, they are not the worst part of the line, so I think Pitts and Weary are set at guard for next year.

Flanagan and Hodgdon were not the answer last season. In fact, I believe Hodgdon will be gone before the season starts, and I suspect a Center will be drafted this year.
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Old 01-24-2007   #5
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

Say spencer comes back 100% healthy, then he is our left tackle. Pitts is our best linemen as we speak at left guard. McKinney should start at center while we draft a young one in to be groomed and to take over when ready. Right Guard I think Weary has earned his spot, he just needs to stay healthy and improve a bit over the offseason and that could be his job to keep. I think putting Winston at right tackle is good, he just needs a good off season and I think he can be a good right tackle.

Depth however...there is none. Salaam Wiegert and Flanagan are just completely done. Hodgon doesn't belong in the nfl. Therefor if we face any injury, we are screwed, we need to build depth through the draft and free agency.
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Old 01-24-2007   #6
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Originally Posted by OSQ View Post
As the season ended, the line looked pretty abysmal. Salaam had a hard time keeping DEs from Carr, and so did Winston. The middle of the line probably looked the best it had with McKinney playing center, and the guards were erratic. They'd play well at one point, and then not so well the next.

I don't think many linemen will be cut. I suspect a lot of these guys will be kept as reserves/depth, so hopefully that answers your question. That includes Salaam, too, unfortunately.

Everything I have heard is that Spencer is doing well in his recovery and will be back. Since Weigert is clearly not the starting right tackle, that makes Winston the starter. Still too early for him to be starting, IMO, but despite his struggles, he showed improvement last season, and he is the best player available.

Although the guards seemed erratic, they are not the worst part of the line, so I think Pitts and Weary are set at guard for next year.

Flanagan and Hodgdon were not the answer last season. In fact, I believe Hodgdon will be gone before the season starts, and I suspect a Center will be drafted this year.
I suspect you're right on pretty much all that. I'd like to see Wiegert, Flanagan, Hodgdon gone and Salaam was pretty poor, but he's tough and might make a serviceable backup if the line around him are working smoother.

I agree that Pitts was good and McKinney was our best Center, although we desperately need someone else to fit that position. I think we'll draft rd 3 or 4 for someone here. There's no standout stars, but there's quite a few promising prospects going quite deep down the list of possibilities. I suspect they'll back McKinney up at first, but hopefuly we'll have someone challenging for the starting spot by the end of next season.

I'd like to see Winston and Spencer start at each tackle for us - not because I think they're ready for that, but because they have talent, they have many years ahead of them and we already have them on the roster. The options at T in FA either don't fit that well with our ZBS, will cost a fortune or would just be yet another stop-gap barely adequate solution to the problem. And in the draft I think we have more pressing issues(JMO). I'd rather see us fast track the development of these two guys than try to put another dubious band-aid over the question.

Pitts is good, Weary is a good backup / relief player and I think we could really do with a starting G to line up on the other side. Someone like Kris Dielman would be ideal.

So that's my take on the O-Line - with Dielman and a couple of depth guys at OT from Free Agency, a future Center and Guard from the Draft, I think our O-Line has the potential to meld into something other than a laughing stock this year. And - equally important - into something solid to be built upon.
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Old 01-24-2007   #7
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
O-line's still a work in progress. flanagan looked like he's lost his legs, pitts was consistant, and weary impressed some folks. weigert cant survive half a season and mckinney looks good for a couple games (same as always, lucky for him his only games were at the end of the season). salaam needs to be gone.

spencer's still a question, we're waiting to see if the cartilage(?) starts growing ... should only be a couple weeks before we're more certain.

winston was shaky but showed real good progress. i dont think he's starter material yet, but he might be with a full offseason to work on a few things.

both. center's up in the air, and i'd like a starting right tackle. if spencer doesnt come back we need a left tackle, too. we also need depth all over.
Now if you say gone, does that mean that you think we need to cut salaam? I doubt it. If Spencer does return and is able to stay healthy and strong, then salaam will still be a 2nd stringer mainly bc of his experience with the zone blocking. i thought for the most part he was serviceable enough to keep. theres alot of people disappointed with chester pitts (mainly sports radio 610 guys) and i dont really know how to critique him. i never really saw breakdowns at the LG spot. hopefully by next season, drew hogdon will start at center, pending if he can snap out of the gun. i think our line will be pretty good for next season. im hearing things about spencer at RT with winston at RG. the only open slot imaginable would be the LT spot and i think they will address it in a later round and hope to find another spencer type (unlikely this season)
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Old 01-24-2007   #8
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

Ideally we'd have another Draft like last year for the OLine, that is 2 OLineman on the first day. However we don't have an extra 3rd rounder,
and with so many other needs, unless we come up with one between now and April we probably need to look to FA to secure another OLineman, especially that elusive LT position.
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Old 01-24-2007   #9
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

I have a serious problem with anyone dogging Salaam on this message board. He gets SO much crap for his play this season, but NO respect for the good things. Let me remind all of you of a few things:

#1) Salaam was injured almost the entire year, and played through the injuries every single game.

#2) Salaam is old and has been moved around a lot. He's not a starting caliber LT at this point, nor was he ever supposed to be. He was a backup that was asked to fill in the ENTIRE season pretty much

#3) He was given the toughest job on the entire OL and I frankly think he did a pretty great job at it.

I for one hope he is back next year as a backup again. With the number of injuries we had, having an experienced guy to fill in is always a benefit. And he is as tough as they come.
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Old 01-24-2007   #10
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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I have a serious problem with anyone dogging Salaam on this message board. He gets SO much crap for his play this season, but NO respect for the good things. Let me remind all of you of a few things:

#1) Salaam was injured almost the entire year, and played through the injuries every single game.

#2) Salaam is old and has been moved around a lot. He's not a starting caliber LT at this point, nor was he ever supposed to be. He was a backup that was asked to fill in the ENTIRE season pretty much

#3) He was given the toughest job on the entire OL and I frankly think he did a pretty great job at it.

I for one hope he is back next year as a backup again. With the number of injuries we had, having an experienced guy to fill in is always a benefit. And he is as tough as they come.
You have to give credit to a guy who is willing to play through the pain. The Texans Front Office screwed up because they cut too many linemen, so when they needed a back-up LT, they had no options. Play the injured guy. For an injured back-up LT, he did his best.

But I think it was obvious from his first game that he didn't belong there. He gave up lots of sacks. Fortunately for him, Weigert gave up sacks, too - to DEs one or two steps faster than the guy Salaam was blocking. I remember in particular David Carr during the first Titans game getting sandwiched between defenders coming off the right and left tackles. It was hard to watch. I hope it doesn't happen again.

He had a hard time in Jacksonville, and he had a hard time in Houston. I think more often than not he failed to hold his position throughout an entire game. I agree he is not starting material, but my problem is that he never proved capable of holding the position. If an offensive lineman can't protect the quarterback, even if he is a backup, should he be kept? IMO, no.

Likely in Kubes' mind, yes, because he can fit into multiple positions.
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Old 01-24-2007   #11
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Originally Posted by OSQ View Post
I agree he is not starting material, but my problem is that he never proved capable of holding the position. If an offensive lineman can't protect the quarterback, even if he is a backup, should he be kept? IMO, no.

Likely in Kubes' mind, yes, because he can fit into multiple positions.
If this is your criteria, you'd have to have an entire OL of starters + backups that are probowl caliber. The reason backups are backups are because they can play the position decently well, but not consistently as well as others. Salaam is a vet with an iron will. He gave up way too many sacks and penalties to be a permanent fixture, but his role playing as a backup should not be ignored.
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Old 01-24-2007   #12
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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If this is your criteria, you'd have to have an entire OL of starters + backups that are probowl caliber. The reason backups are backups are because they can play the position decently well, but not consistently as well as others. Salaam is a vet with an iron will. He gave up way too many sacks and penalties to be a permanent fixture, but his role playing as a backup should not be ignored.
Disregarding your ab absurdo argument...

There is a whole slew of reasons why a player is designated a back-up. Consistency is only one of them.

To me it comes down to the question of "if Spencer is injured next year, do you feel comfortable putting Salaam in as a replacement?" If the answer is no, he should not be on the team. (JMO, the answer is a resounding "no.")
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Old 01-24-2007   #13
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Now if you say gone, does that mean that you think we need to cut salaam? I doubt it. If Spencer does return and is able to stay healthy and strong, then salaam will still be a 2nd stringer mainly bc of his experience with the zone blocking. i thought for the most part he was serviceable enough to keep.
in my scenario, we need to find a starting right tackle and have winston backing up both tackle positions, or atleast draft a backup while winston starts RT. i really dont care if salaam has iron guts, because he has iron feet and simply wasnt good. i'm not trying to sound harsh, but we have to do better than that if we're going to be taken seriously. he was a turnstyle in the passing game and inconsistant in the running game. if we release salaam i can almost guarantee he'll not be getting another job unless a team loses a left tackle or two, so if we get desperate he'll still be around.
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Old 01-24-2007   #14
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

My guess is that internally the team thinks higher of what our offensive line did this season than some may suspect...
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Old 01-24-2007   #15
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

I say the line is the #1 target for the Texans this year... more important than LB's Dline and secondary. They run blocking has bee terrible at the beginning and average at the end. The passing game has been limited because of the poor protection. For this team to be better on offense I truely believe that the Oline is more a concern than QB.
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Old 01-24-2007   #16
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I say the line is the #1 target for the Texans this year... more important than LB's Dline and secondary. They run blocking has bee terrible at the beginning and average at the end. The passing game has been limited because of the poor protection. For this team to be better on offense I truely believe that the Oline is more a concern than QB.
I think teams with bad qb's should find a better one...
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Old 01-24-2007   #17
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Say spencer comes back 100% healthy, then he is our left tackle. Pitts is our best linemen as we speak at left guard. McKinney should start at center while we draft a young one in to be groomed and to take over when ready. Right Guard I think Weary has earned his spot, he just needs to stay healthy and improve a bit over the offseason and that could be his job to keep. I think putting Winston at right tackle is good, he just needs a good off season and I think he can be a good right tackle.

Depth however...there is none. Salaam Wiegert and Flanagan are just completely done. Hodgon doesn't belong in the nfl. Therefor if we face any injury, we are screwed, we need to build depth through the draft and free agency.
I pretty much agree. We should get a tackle for depth by round 4. Might get a non left tackle lineman in free agency but do not expect a head turner just someone steady with a healthy body. I hope Weary & Winston can hold starter roles and see McKinney @ center. imo no one drafted in first 6 rounds for center. Weigert might make roster as a back up.
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Old 01-24-2007   #18
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

In a back up I would like to see somone decent. No he doesn't need to be starter material for 16 games. If you had your whole o-line that could starte...you'd have a superb offense. I would expect him to come in for a game or two...maybe three...or even a few plays. but to expect him to play 13 games in a row is a stretch. i wasn't pleased with Salaam as our starter. but like most have said he wasn't meant to be. he would be fine to come in for a game or a half or so while spencer rest..etc. I would be fine keeping him as a back up.

Rick Smith has said that this is a deep o-line draft. Not necessarily 1st round material but a lot throughout the rounds. I would expect them to pick up some more guys for our o-line be them starters or backups i dont know. we do know they would at least compete for the starting job and probably get it in a year or two if not next season. I see them continuing to draft the guys that fit our system this draft and so forth, not necessarily saying spencers is our guy we'll forget about LT.
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Old 01-24-2007   #19
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I have a serious problem with anyone dogging Salaam on this message board. He gets SO much crap for his play this season, but NO respect for the good things. Let me remind all of you of a few things:

#1) Salaam was injured almost the entire year, and played through the injuries every single game.

#2) Salaam is old and has been moved around a lot. He's not a starting caliber LT at this point, nor was he ever supposed to be. He was a backup that was asked to fill in the ENTIRE season pretty much

#3) He was given the toughest job on the entire OL and I frankly think he did a pretty great job at it.

I for one hope he is back next year as a backup again. With the number of injuries we had, having an experienced guy to fill in is always a benefit. And he is as tough as they come.
I agree with all of this! Good post!
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Old 01-24-2007   #20
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Default Re: Rating the offensive line

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Is Spencer going to be ready for season?
I expect to see Tony Boselli, Domanick Davis/ Williams, and Bennie Joppru on the field before I'll ever see Spencer again.

This team is cursed.
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