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Old 01-12-2007   #1
TEXANFAN23435
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Default An Idle Thought...

There was a very good article in the Virginia-Pilot today regarding the Eagles and the quandary they face if Garcia continues to move them through the playoffs. The point the article kept making was McNabb just can't win in Philadelphia. This article got the ol' stone wheels rolling and I was thinking the following:

I am a David Carr fan but I to may have come to the conclusion that he has just been beaten on (physically) too long here in Houston to be effective and maybe needs a change of scenery. It wasn't his fault he was thrown behind a line that has never really been addressed. This season the line wasn't much better. Our running game didn't show up until game 13. The defense put us in some big holes and made the offense pretty predictable. In the end, Carr will have to shoulder the majority of this seasons woes. Is this fair, NO! but that's life.

D. McNabb is in a very bad situation. The team was not really responding to him at the start of the season, then his injury happens and in steps Garcia, who not only is very familiar with the offensive scheme but is also a savvy veteran. He's a veteran who realized his opportunity and made the most of it. If he takes this team to the Championship or SB game, the Eagles may really have a tough time giving the starting job back to McNabb and no matter what happens this year, McNabb expects to be named the starter next year. So, if the Eagles don't do this and McNabb has to compete to regain the starting QB position he may take it as a slap in the face and want out of Philadelphia. The Philly fans will even be more adament about an open competition based on what happened this year.

This idea may really be good to both teams. We swap starting QB's and send the Eagles our 3 or 4 pick with the proposal. Why this would work for both teams:

1. It's a trade out of Conference.
2. McNabb comes to a team who can use his locker room and field leadership. Should command immediate respect. This allows the Texans to focus on real need areas in the draft and not another QB.
3. Garcia would be the starter for the next couple of years in Philly and this would give Carr a couple of years to rest his body, study under a very smart veteran (which never happened in Houston), have the time to learn the Andy Reid offensive system, with no pressure and most important regain his confidence.

What do you think?
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Old 01-12-2007   #2
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

It is funny, I have personally talked to a few high school coaches, and a few college coordinators and I asked them about hte Carr situation. They all laughed and said its ridiculous how much crap the media and the fans give him because hasn't really been given a chance. This year he either had decent protection and no running game, or a running game with horrible protection.

I still truely believe that quarterback isn't a position we need to fix, maybe add plummer for competition purposes... or draft a qb in a late round, but it shouldn't be anything we should worry about.

Look at Drew Brees, was horrible, once he was added a good tight end and some good protection, yeah not so bad. I feel like we owe it to Carr to give him some help and let him see what he can do.
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Old 01-12-2007   #3
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavoritetexan42 View Post
I still truely believe that quarterback isn't a position we need to fix, maybe add plummer for competition purposes... or draft a qb in a late round, but it shouldn't be anything we should worry about.

Look at Drew Brees, was horrible, once he was added a good tight end and some good protection, yeah not so bad. I feel like we owe it to Carr to give him some help and let him see what he can do.
So...why would we add Plummer and a QB in the draft if the position isn't anything to worry about? IMO, the QB spot is a huge concern right now.

BTW, Drew Brees was never horrible. His worst year was when Gates came into the league. If he was horrible, then what would that make Carr?
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Old 01-12-2007   #4
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Drew Brees was almost run out of town too.




Disclaimer: That is not to say Carr can turn it around either.
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Old 01-12-2007   #5
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

No way Philly lets McNabb go for such a lowly QB and 3rd round pick. Don't forget he was on pace for a record breaking year this year.

Sure Garcia is having success, but don't count McNabb out. He is 5x the QB Garcia will be in terms of talent, they just need to scheme for him better. The only reason Garcia is winning is because they aren't passing every down like they did with McNabb
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Old 01-12-2007   #6
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

First, Carr isn't a lowly QB if you mean his ability to QB. If you mean by how low he was to the ground during or after most plays during his career, then I would say you hit the nail on the head.

This is no stretch based on how they are playing, but if Garcia takes Philly to the SB my gut feeling is there is no way McNabb has that warm and fuzzy feeling in the off season. Anyone really think McNabb is named the starter in the off-season and Garcia is given a pat on the back and his clip board?

I'd say let the playoffs play out and then watch. If Philly loses this weekend, then this exercise was for nothing. If they win, then our FO might want to slide the phone a little closer.
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Old 01-12-2007   #7
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Quote:
The point the article kept making was McNabb just can't win in Philadelphia.
Based on this statement, the article is stupid. McNabb led the Eagles to four consecutive NFC Championship games and one Superbowl appearance. Dude has been part of a winning team. Their winning records make that quite obvious. (If the logic is that he "can't win the big one", then I guess the Colts should get rid of Manning? Riiiiiiight)

McNabb is not going anywhere, and I would be very surprised if he wasn't the starting QB for Philly in 2007. Garcia chose to be a backup on a good team instead of a starter on a bad team. He does not have a problem being no. 2 behind McNabb.

And a trade for McNabb with Carr?! That's wishful thinking and crazy talk all rolled up in one.
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Old 01-12-2007   #8
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

it's the offseason, any grassy knoll conspiracy theory that gets papers selling & ratings increasing will do. I expect to hear a lot more as the free agency begins, who will sign with whom and for what amount of money. McNabb is under contract, Garcia will be UFA when season ends. i expect Garcia wil lsign somewhere else (maybe a Texas team)
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Old 01-12-2007   #9
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Mcnabb might have been the best player in the league prior to his injury. Please for the Love of God, why would the Eagles trade for one of the worst QB's in the league for one of the best and a 3rd rd pick. Please tell me you haven't thought this thru. That would be the worst trade in the entire history of professional sports. Where do you people come up with this stuff?
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Old 01-12-2007   #10
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

I'm going to go with the majority on this one. You don't throw away a QB who has gotten you a buch of division titles and a shot at the SB for a guy who is just passing through and happened to have a good year this year. If anything, Garcia's performance has shown how much they depend on McNabb. Westbrook is having an outstanding year and has been the bulk of their offense. That takes all the pressure off Garcia. When Donovan was in, the entire offense went through him. It is more likely that Garcia is setting himself up for a fat contract next year with another team. It probably won't be here becase we are short on cash (relative to other teams) and long on needs at other positions.
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Old 01-12-2007   #11
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

McNabb will lead the eagles next year, period. We could get Garcia maybe, but I am in the camp that beleives we should draft a QB, keep Carr, and if he plays badly, bench him for Sage.

I would however support ditching Carr for Jeff Garcia, he does all the things that Dave should be able to do, but has'nt.
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Old 01-12-2007   #12
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

This will be McNabb's team for now and the immediate future.

Jeff Garcia's had a nice run, but putting the franchise face on the pine for him would be a collossal mistake. Even if the Eagles DO shop McNabb, it's going to take substantially more than David Carr and a 3rd round draft pick.

Good conceptual idea for the Texans, there's zero realistic chance it's going to happen.
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Old 01-12-2007   #13
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

If there's any QB I'd be happy with us shifting Carr for, it's McNabb (That is, of course, because Steve Young isn't available). McNabb would obviously fit our system, and he definitely have the skills to move this offense, but my oly concern would be his toughness. Carr's shining asset is that he's tougher than nails, and McNabb has had injury issues in the past. Philly fans have also expressed that McNabb is too quiet and reserved for their liking, whereas Garcia is a player with lots of bravado that they want in an Eagle.

That being said, though, this is obviously too long a shot for it to happen. If they just give McNabb the same balanced offense that they're currently giving Garcia, I think they will be awesome contender's next year. Even though this is essentially a not-gonna-happen idea, it sure is fun to think about in a slow offseason!
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Old 01-12-2007   #14
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

I'm willing to sit back and pretend that this trade could happen... just for the sake of the topic of the thread: an idle thought.

Donovan McNabb could take this team to the playoffs, I believe. He has no faith-issues with the offensive line, he reads defenses well, he has beaten many teams with his arm, he can shake defenders out of their shoes, and he has gumption.

When I think about what current starters I would love to have, he's at the top of the list, along with a young Steve McNair.

I'm not going to even think about the reality of the situation (not in the idle thought thread) but the fantasy sure is delightful.
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Old 01-12-2007   #15
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANFAN23435 View Post
There was a very good article in the Virginia-Pilot today regarding the Eagles and the quandary they face if Garcia continues to move them through the playoffs. The point the article kept making was McNabb just can't win in Philadelphia. This article got the ol' stone wheels rolling and I was thinking the following:

I am a David Carr fan but I to may have come to the conclusion that he has just been beaten on (physically) too long here in Houston to be effective and maybe needs a change of scenery. It wasn't his fault he was thrown behind a line that has never really been addressed. This season the line wasn't much better. Our running game didn't show up until game 13. The defense put us in some big holes and made the offense pretty predictable. In the end, Carr will have to shoulder the majority of this seasons woes. Is this fair, NO! but that's life.

D. McNabb is in a very bad situation. The team was not really responding to him at the start of the season, then his injury happens and in steps Garcia, who not only is very familiar with the offensive scheme but is also a savvy veteran. He's a veteran who realized his opportunity and made the most of it. If he takes this team to the Championship or SB game, the Eagles may really have a tough time giving the starting job back to McNabb and no matter what happens this year, McNabb expects to be named the starter next year. So, if the Eagles don't do this and McNabb has to compete to regain the starting QB position he may take it as a slap in the face and want out of Philadelphia. The Philly fans will even be more adament about an open competition based on what happened this year.

This idea may really be good to both teams. We swap starting QB's and send the Eagles our 3 or 4 pick with the proposal. Why this would work for both teams:

1. It's a trade out of Conference.
2. McNabb comes to a team who can use his locker room and field leadership. Should command immediate respect. This allows the Texans to focus on real need areas in the draft and not another QB.
3. Garcia would be the starter for the next couple of years in Philly and this would give Carr a couple of years to rest his body, study under a very smart veteran (which never happened in Houston), have the time to learn the Andy Reid offensive system, with no pressure and most important regain his confidence.

What do you think?
McNabb did get the Eagles to four straight NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl, so unless Garcia can at least get the Eagles to the Super Bowl I don't think there will be much of a controversy in Philly, at least among the team, maybe the fans will have some questions about it.

As for the team not responding to him early on this year, they were sitting at 4-1 and with the #1 overall rated offense in the NFL until things started falling apart, and McNabb was putting up some very nice stats in the process.
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Old 01-12-2007   #16
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Old Eagles fan here and I have to respond to this.

First off, a trade for McNabb would cost you Mario Williams and DeMeco Ryans, not Carr and a second day pick.

But McNabb will not be traded or lose his starting job if the Eagles win the Super Bowl or go out tommorow against the Saints. Why? Because Andy Reid brought McNabb to Philly in the draft, when Mozack, wanted to trade out of the pick,( number 2 overall), put players around him that fit the way Reid runs the offence, and resigned him longterm. As long as Reid is here, McNabb stays.

The talk of a quarterback change is just that: talk. No logic behind it. McNabb is 30 years old, prime of his career. Garcia all most 37, at the end of his career. Who do you keep?

Garcia has said in public that he knows his role is to backup McNabb. He accepts it. He has also said that he would like to stay in Philly next year,as opposed to going to a non winning team like he was on the past two years, to finish out his career.

As far as the fans, the Eagles have more than their share of people who watch football, but know nothing about the sport. They spend their time calling talk radio and starting things like this. Same guys who booed McNabb at the draft. Makes the rest of us look bad.
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Old 01-12-2007   #17
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Like I stated, it was an "idle thought" based on the article I read. After this post, I was running an errand and listening to ESPN Radio, low and behold the subject was regarding the possible QB controversy if Garcia takes this team to the Super Bowl. Some thought there was a possiblity and some thought Reid has already made up his mind to stay with McNabb as starter and make every effort to resign Garcia as a backup. After listening to their points, I would now say there will be no problems in Philly. I would also say, if Garcia takes this team to the SB, Philly might be better off letting Garcia walk. If McNabb started next year off like he was playing before his injury, Philly fans will be screaming for Garcia.

I for one would like to see Carr take a year off. Carry a clip board, observe a veteran running this offense and regain his shattered confidence. Maybe Garcia would be a great option for one year. Kubiak and the front office will hopefully address the OL again in this years draft.
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Old 01-12-2007   #18
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl35 View Post
Old Eagles fan here and I have to respond to this.

First off, a trade for McNabb would cost you Mario Williams and DeMeco Ryans, not Carr and a second day pick.

But McNabb will not be traded or lose his starting job if the Eagles win the Super Bowl or go out tommorow against the Saints. Why? Because Andy Reid brought McNabb to Philly in the draft, when Mozack, wanted to trade out of the pick,( number 2 overall), put players around him that fit the way Reid runs the offence, and resigned him longterm. As long as Reid is here, McNabb stays.

The talk of a quarterback change is just that: talk. No logic behind it. McNabb is 30 years old, prime of his career. Garcia all most 37, at the end of his career. Who do you keep?

Garcia has said in public that he knows his role is to backup McNabb. He accepts it. He has also said that he would like to stay in Philly next year,as opposed to going to a non winning team like he was on the past two years, to finish out his career.

As far as the fans, the Eagles have more than their share of people who watch football, but know nothing about the sport. They spend their time calling talk radio and starting things like this. Same guys who booed McNabb at the draft. Makes the rest of us look bad.
Finally some realistic talk to squash this thread....please keep your dreams and imaginations at home. There is no way in hell that mcnabb loses his job in philly nor is there a chance that philly would take carr and 3rd round pick for him...thats just ludicrous
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Old 01-12-2007   #19
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky View Post
Mcnabb might have been the best player in the league prior to his injury. Please for the Love of God, why would the Eagles trade for one of the worst QB's in the league for one of the best and a 3rd rd pick. Please tell me you haven't thought this thru. That would be the worst trade in the entire history of professional sports. Where do you people come up with this stuff?
There have been far worse trades than this imagined one and I'm talking about ones that actually went to completion.
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Old 01-12-2007   #20
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Default Re: An Idle Thought...

With this topic at hand, I WAS thinking of someone who MIGHT be a viable option.

At this point, we all seem to agree that Carr either isn't the answer or is in need of a change of scenery. I think we all seem to be in agreeance, the team should address the QB position in the draft, and I've slowly grown to be one of the many on the Kevin Kolb bandwagon.

Now, obviously Kolb is a few years away, which leads me to this option.. What would you guys think about Kurt Warner of Arizona?

Now, granted we all know that the guy performs at his best when he has time to throw the football, and Houston's Oline issues have been well documented (even though I do think they're improving). Obviously, Arizona's set at QB of the Future with Leinart, and he seems prepared to play here and now, thus rendering the need for Warner to be irrelevent.

What would you guys think about trading say a 6th or 7th to get Warner? I'm not sure exactly what Arizona would ask in a trade for him, but if nothing else, he brings a stable veteran presence to the QB position, and would allow either Sage or the rookie QB (or both) to grow behind his tutalage.
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