Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2004   #1
Fiddy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston/Austin
Age: 26
Posts: 4,314
Rep Power: 18 Fiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to Fiddy Send a message via MSN to Fiddy Send a message via Yahoo to Fiddy
Default What did Davis do to the offense - Part II

At the end of last season I compiled stats to figure out what exactly Davis did to the offense (here it is: http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zon...read.php?t=909)

So after 5 games this season, I have complied stats once again. My stats are based on 2 games and a 1/2 of the Vikings game so the time is split in half. Davis played a big role in the first half against the Vikes and a small role in the second so I looked at the play-by-play and got the stats for each half. I will now compare what happens to Carr and Johnson when Davis plays a big role and when Davis plays a small role.

When Davis plays a big role in the offense- 2-1/2 games (Chargers, Lions, first half against Vikes)

David Carr's Stats:
Completions - 50
Attempts - 72
Yards - 626
Touchdowns - 2
INTs - 3
Avg per completion - 12.5

Andre Johnson Stats:
Receptions - 13
Yards - 199
TDs - 1
Avg - 15.3

Total Points scored by offense - 36
Total Turnovers by the offense - 7
Record 0-3 (We lost the first half of the Vikes game)

When Davis plays a small or no role in the offense 2-1/2 games (KC, Oakland. other 1/2 of Vikes game)

David Carr's Stats:
Completions - 46
Attempts - 78
Yards - 749
Touchdowns - 5
INTs - 1
Avg per completion - 16

Andre Johnson Stats:
Receptions - 16
Yards - 326
TDs - 3
Avg - 20.4

Total Points scored by offense - 68 (I took out the 2 defensive TDs)
Total Turnovers by the offense - 2
Record 3-0 (We won the second half of the Vikes game)

The important stats are the total points scored, the turnovers, and the wins by the teams. The stats are excat opposites. You may take these stats as you want to take them, but I will stay opposed to Davis playing a big role in the offense.
__________________

'Anyone ready to go outside so I can make you look bad?' - Matt Schaub talking to the DBs
Fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #2
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,811
Rep Power: 10969 El Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I will too unfortunately but hey the proof is in the game and you can just see it. Davis needs to be an arsenal in the offense, not the main gun.
El Tejano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #3
RTP2110
Hall of Fame
 
RTP2110's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atascocita
Age: 34
Posts: 2,973
Rep Power: 6844 RTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I agree. You don't have to do much digging to see the ''Domanick Davis Difference" in this offense. I just don't understand why dd is so prioritized in the offense when our passing game unbelievably effective.
RTP2110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #4
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 44,633
Rep Power: 276022 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Domanick's presence in the game has not caused David Carr to complete just 40.7% (11 of 27) of his pass attempts in the 1st quarter. The Texans have taken some shots in the 1st but David has not executed. David has to step up his game in the 1st to match his other three quarters.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #5
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
 
ledzeppelin229's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Spring / San Marcos, TX
Age: 29
Posts: 6,829
Rep Power: 712 ledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to ledzeppelin229
Default

I don't think you can really blame Davis for all this. It all starts with Carr and the coaches, and if we were using Davis properly (as in using the pass to setup the run) he could have some big games when teams backoff to cover our WRs. I just wonder if Hollings or Wells was playing as much as him, would we see the exact same thing? He also doesn't seem to have even the tiniest hole to squeak through. What happened to those giant holes last season that allowed him to run in space? That's where he's most valuable.

I don't think it's Fiddy's intention but it sometimes seems to come across to me like he just cant wait for Davis to screw something up so he can get his boy Hollings in the game.

All in all, I do agree it's obvious the offense is being misused early in the game, and the overall focus should be on our big play WRs and not Davis (who isn't getting the blocking he needs to be running well anyway). Especially when the defenses glaring weakness IS its pass defense.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn
godzmn young fomkss are slow. they can all kissmy ass.

ledzeppelin229 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #6
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,676
Rep Power: 133798 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I tend to think that Dom's long term outlook in the NFL is as a 3rd down back and I don't think he is any more talented than guys like Kevin Faulk or Moe Williams (they are third down backs on their teams). Yesterday we faced a guy in M Moore that is prety much the same type back as Dom. Sure he got some yards on us but he is slow and not much of a threat. No way Moore keeps his job when the other Viking backs get healthy.

Dom has 70 runs this year with a long of 10 yards. He is not a threat to score except inside the 10 yard line for the most part and teams tend to give us dump off passes when we are between the 20's when he is in the game. If Hollings can't step up and take the position we will draft a back on the first day of the draft next year. Book it.
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #7
RTP2110
Hall of Fame
 
RTP2110's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atascocita
Age: 34
Posts: 2,973
Rep Power: 6844 RTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I agree with Vinny 100%. While I've always been impressed with DD, I've never really had confidence in him as an every down back.
RTP2110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 10-11-2004   #8
RTP2110
Hall of Fame
 
RTP2110's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atascocita
Age: 34
Posts: 2,973
Rep Power: 6844 RTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respectedRTP2110 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Wasn't it because of DD that we didn't take a RB on the 1st day this year? Wasn't the plan to draft a QB, then WR, and RB was supposed to be the final peice of the puzzle?
RTP2110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #9
Fiddy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston/Austin
Age: 26
Posts: 4,314
Rep Power: 18 Fiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to Fiddy Send a message via MSN to Fiddy Send a message via Yahoo to Fiddy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledzeppelin269
I don't think it's Fiddy's intention but it sometimes seems to come across to me like he just cant wait for Davis to screw something up so he can get his boy Hollings in the game.
It is not my intention to do that. I just want what is best for the team. If Wells is the better back, then put him in. It is no secret that I would like Hollings to get a chance but I do agree with Vinny that we could draft a back on the first day if no one proves they are an everydown back...
__________________

'Anyone ready to go outside so I can make you look bad?' - Matt Schaub talking to the DBs
Fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #10
SBTexans08
All Pro
 
SBTexans08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 3rd Coast
Age: 34
Posts: 677
Rep Power: 11 SBTexans08 is ridin' the pine
Send a message via MSN to SBTexans08
Default

I agree as well. I just don't think this year's draft had what we were looking for though. Hopefully next year's draft has something in store for the Texans in that department.
__________________
MY XBOX 360 GAMER PROFILE
SBTexans08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #11
Sarg01
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 1,152
Rep Power: 12 Sarg01 is a Pro BowlerSarg01 is a Pro Bowler
Default

I think you're looking at symptoms of the problem, not the problem itself.

It's not that Davis is a worse back than Wells or Hollings. It's that everyone in the NFL knows that the Texans are going to run the ball more than most other teams. Thus they either give up yards to Davis OR ease up a little on the deep range in order to protect the short ranges and stop the run. This is a good reason why Carr's ypa is high despite a relative lack of deep shots taken on offense. We actually have the keys for a balanced offense ... BUT we don't run a lot of play action and/or counters, so we don't fool defenses the way other balanced offenses do. It's probably based in a residual lack of faith about the O-line. Play action, counters and screens all are bad moves if the other team gets penetration.
Sarg01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #12
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
 
ledzeppelin229's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Spring / San Marcos, TX
Age: 29
Posts: 6,829
Rep Power: 712 ledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respectedledzeppelin229 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to ledzeppelin229
Default

What's everyones opinion on Ronnie Brown? He's a big back (6'1", 224) seems to have good speed/agility especially for his size, and doesn't go down without getting hit with a sledgehammer. Ive seen a few Auburn games and that guy is always running hard and making plays out of nothing.

Where would he be expected to fall in the draft at this point?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn
godzmn young fomkss are slow. they can all kissmy ass.

ledzeppelin229 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #13
travfrancis
Veteran
 
travfrancis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston
Age: 27
Posts: 410
Rep Power: 12 travfrancis is on the Pro-Bowl ballottravfrancis is on the Pro-Bowl ballot
Send a message via AIM to travfrancis
Default

^ 1st round
travfrancis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004   #14
Scooter
Funky
 
Scooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 4,801
Rep Power: 78537 Scooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respectedScooter is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

i'm not exactly sure how you can add the vikings game into dd's totals. 4 carries in the and 3(?) receptions in the first half was a huge mistake IMO. dd wasnt even in that game and should've been. the problem is that usually we gameplan around davis and make him the focal point of the offence. what's happened is defences are doing that also and nobody can be very effective like that ... which is why we've been so successful in the air. dd needs to become our #1 running back, not our entire offense (or not even on the field when they attack him directly). when that happens he'll return to ~25 carries & 100+ yards per game along with a balanced passing attack. it cant be all or none, dd has to be a PART of the offense.
__________________
Scooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004   #15
V Man
Pumpkinhead
 
V Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alamo City
Age: 46
Posts: 2,589
Rep Power: 19 V Man could be on the next Madden coverV Man could be on the next Madden coverV Man could be on the next Madden coverV Man could be on the next Madden coverV Man could be on the next Madden coverV Man could be on the next Madden cover
Send a message via MSN to V Man
Default

My problem is I don't think they use DD right. Like Vinny said he is a third down back (Only). If used right, he is quite useful. Example the draw play in OT, he went for about 15 (but was called back for a suspect holding call).

It seems at times he is too enovled in the offense, all they do is dump the ball to him. Is that him, Carr, or the coaches I don't know, but it really seems to slow down the offense, (just like Fiddy's stats show).

And I also agree with several other of you that we could be looking at a feature back with the first round pick next year.
V Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004   #16
TexansTrueFan
Hall of Fame
 
TexansTrueFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Huntsville Tx
Age: 29
Posts: 2,600
Rep Power: 12 TexansTrueFan is a team player
Send a message via Yahoo to TexansTrueFan
Default

Well even though D.D hasnt shown what we expected so far this season i still "think" he can be our every down back. I just dont think the zone blocking scheme is working for our RB's. i dont see near as many holes opening up on the O-Line as last year. Its fine to use D.D as a RUNNING BACK but when he become the leading reciever on our team than we got problems. I dont see us drafting a RB in the first round i see us focusing primarily on Top Defensive picks. We maybe D.D only starts getting good on weeks 6 like last years Guess we'll see.
TexansTrueFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004   #17
TexanExile
Square 1 again
 
TexanExile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 43
Posts: 1,600
Rep Power: 3475 TexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Our first round pick next year should probably go to one of our rather porous lines. Offense OR defense...both need some depth and planning for gathering salary cap clouds. A legitimate left tackle would be nice...but back to Davis.

Dom's got a ton of talent, but he's not showing durability. The same could be said of his backup, if his backup had any real experience at all. As soon as it was clear that Dom couldn't twist and turn against the Vikes, he should've been pulled for Wells, who gave us a decent ground game the week before. Let Dom heal 100% if need be.

We can't forget the amazing stuff he did last year, but for WHATEVER REASON (Carr's preferences or the signals from the sidelines), when DD's on the field our quarterback doesn't throw to anybody who isn't wearing a 37 on his back. That's ridiculous. At this point, I'd say keep using him, but give Wells and Hollings their opportunities to spell him and maybe even surpass him. If he's not the best RB on the team, fine, but even if he IS the best RB on the team, he can't be the whole freaking offense.
TexanExile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004   #18
STEEL BLUE TEXANS
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sugar Land, Texas
Age: 31
Posts: 5,792
Rep Power: 10214 STEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respectedSTEEL BLUE TEXANS is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I'd rather use a Mid-round pick on Kay Jay Harris. Ronnie Brown will likely be a 1st - early 2nd round pick.
STEEL BLUE TEXANS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004   #19
Fiddy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston/Austin
Age: 26
Posts: 4,314
Rep Power: 18 Fiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to Fiddy Send a message via MSN to Fiddy Send a message via Yahoo to Fiddy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexanExile
Dom's got a ton of talent, but he's not showing durability.

We can't forget the amazing stuff he did last year. . .
I dont know that he has ton of talent, His skill level is at that of a 3rd down back, and I do not know what amazing stuff he did last year. Davis' yards per carry was 18th best in the league last year and he struggled against teams with good run defenses. He also did not stretch defenses with long runs or cause them to lose sleep.
__________________

'Anyone ready to go outside so I can make you look bad?' - Matt Schaub talking to the DBs
Fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004   #20
Mistril48
All Pro
 
Mistril48's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 548
Rep Power: 11 Mistril48 is ridin' the pine
Default

Does anyone know why Tony Hollings didn't get in the game at all versus the Vikings?
Mistril48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger