Zone Coverage or Man Coverage??

[thunderkyss]

Take a look, tell me what you think.. it's only a few frames, so you may not be able to tell.

[Zippy]

Frame 1 - Man
Frame 2 - Man, except for the one receiver streaking by the 25.
Frame 3 - Oops!

[The Pencil Neck]

Up until the third frame, it's obviously man. But that third frame is a really pretty triangle... and that looks zonish to me.

Did you do some photoshop work, you bastid?

[aj.]

At first glance I thought that was K2 making the catch - in which case it appeared to be a standard cover two man with a 59 following the TE deep - but this is the only play in the gamebook that has the Browns at their own 22:

1-10-CLV 22 (11:58) 9-C.Frye pass short left to 17-B.Edwards to CLV 35 for 13 yards (56-M.Greenwood).

[jdog]

Frame 2:

It looks like Orr is taking the running back. Probably zone.

However, I thought Orr was weak side linebacker, and it looks like the tight end is on his side.

I am new to this x's and o's stuff, and the picture "ain't" too clear.

Corners might be man on the receivers.

I'm guessing the four guys going for the quarter back are all line men.

I think that's Greenwood in the center right of the picture. He seems to be in zone or spy mode.

I can't see Ryans at this point which makes me think he and Orr might be in some kind of high/low zone coverage.

Now, I think it's the tight end running straight down the field just above Greenwood. No one is around him in the picture which makes me think Greenwood is spying and Ryans and Orr are in some kind of high/low zone coverage.

Frame 3:

I think it's the tight end making the catch. He has split the high/low zone coverage. Greenwood saw the quarterback pass and ran to the target. Ryans, I think it's Ryans, is coming up to the target. Orr is dropping the running back and moving to the target.

Now, why would you not expect someone to be at the first down marker?

[t_flare]

i would play zone too if I have faggins brown and earl as my secondary

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

Up until the third frame, it's obviously man. But that third frame is a really pretty triangle... and that looks zonish to me.

Did you do some photoshop work, you bastid?

no photoshop'n.... the ball is thrown between the second and third frame.... the third frame is the first clear picture I could get.

But on the replay, I've got this.....






Watching the replay, to me, it looks like man coverage. Orr the SAM covers the RB out of the back field..... Demeco the middle linebacker follows Winslow..... I don't understand what Greenwood is up to... the corners are maned up on the recievers(Braylon Edwards(17) is on top covered by Dunta(look at the socks).....

After going a few yards, Dunta is way ahead of Braylon..... I don't know if he is looking at Frye's eyes(who reminds me of David Carr(minus the arm) in 2002)..... or just notices that there is no safety over Winslow II(I don't know if there is or not, just can't think of a reason for Dunta to leave his man) and stays on top of Winslow to prevent the big play...... it may have very well been designed this way, in which case I would have thought Greenwood or (most likely) Demeco should have stoped short to cover the underneath route.

Originally Posted by aj.

At first I thought that was K2 making the catch - in which case it appeared to be a standard cover two man with a 59 following the TE deep - but this is the only play in the gamebook that resembles the pictures:

1-10-CLV 22 (11:58) 9-C.Frye pass short left to 17-B.Edwards to CLV 35 for 13 yards (56-M.Greenwood).

That's it....

Originally Posted by t_flare

i would play zone too if I have faggins brown and earl as my secondary

one of the reasons I decided to highlight this play here, is because I think too many times people look at who makes the tackle, or who is in the frame to decide who screwed up. I'm not saying this is the case with you here.

In this particular case, the guy who screwed up(Imho) is not even in the frame.. even after the catch is made, he doesn't come in to assist with a tackle, or congratulate the guy who did make the tackle.

[Vinny]

could be a combo coverage. You can play a cover2 with man or zone....you can also man the outside/deep and zone underneath or vice versa...you can't tell much with still frames.

[cadahnic]

to help you guys out it is zonedog cover 3. That is the play. Hard to tell when you use the TV broadcast, but that is the defensive call. The way you can tell is that the OLB goes with the underneath route

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by jdog

Frame 2:

It looks like Orr is taking the running back. Probably zone.

The way that Orr followed the RB would suggest man..... on zone coverage, Orr would fall back or drift out to a spot....

The tightend also releases inside of Orr... it's hard to see in the frames(I was trying to get clear pictures) but Demeco (the LB behind Orr) picks up the TE... another indication that it is man...

Originally Posted by jdog

I think that's Greenwood in the center right of the picture. He seems to be in zone or spy mode.

I can't see Ryans at this point which makes me think he and Orr might be in some kind of high/low zone coverage.

Ryans is backpedalling to stay in front of Winslow...... Kellen is way too fast though, and ends up beating him on top.....

Originally Posted by jdog

Frame 3:

I think it's the tight end making the catch. He has split the high/low zone coverage. Greenwood saw the quarterback pass and ran to the target. Ryans, I think it's Ryans, is coming up to the target. Orr is dropping the running back and moving to the target.

It's the WR making the catch, but I can see why you'd think it was the TE... & I can see this, if this were a zone coverage.

Originally Posted by jdog

Now, why would you not expect someone to be at the first down marker?

I know......

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by cadahnic

to help you guys out it is zonedog cover 3. That is the play. Hard to tell when you use the TV broadcast, but that is the defensive call. The way you can tell is that the OLB goes with the underneath route

Please explain......... zone dog cover three.....

[Vinny]

as far as the terms go...zone is not man...a dog is a blitz...a zone dog is a zone blitz....and the cover3 is the Tampa2....which is really a three deep zone in the secondary.

[cadahnic]

Depending on how they utilize their zone dogs it can go a couple of different ways. Essentially it is like Vinny is saying Back half is in a zone with couple of guys in a man. ZoneDog describes what the LBs and CBs will do depending on the underneath routes. Cover 3 means that the Corners again depending on the ZoneDog will cover deep with a deep middle backer.

In this case Drob had the deep zone, Orr had man on the underneath, Greenwood and Ryans would have been in zone also. Likely with Ryans deep third and Greenwood middle. One safety should be deep on Faggins side and one should have come up in sort of a robber position.

Vinny in some cases like in the TAMPA 2 a dog would mean man coverage underneath unless no one comes out then blitz. Or a delayed blitz with read, but you likely know that already so this is more for everyone else than for you...

I hope that helps. If you need me to get overly technical and explain the nuances and reads I can do that also.

[jdog]

Originally Posted by Vinny

as far as the terms go...zone is not man...a dog is a blitz...a zone dog is a zone blitz....and the cover3 is the Tampa2....which is really a three deep zone in the secondary.

If this is true, then where is the blitz? We have the front four pass rushing.

I do not know much about football yet, but I thought that a blitz was when someone pass rushes in addition to the front four.

I can see the three deep zone maybe if Ryans, Brown, and Earl are playing the three deep.

It's hard to tell any of this from stills, but I like learning from game photos.

[jdog]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

In this particular case, the guy who screwed up(Imho) is not even in the frame.. even after the catch is made, he doesn't come in to assist with a tackle, or congratulate the guy who did make the tackle.

Do you think Dunta screwed up? I would think it was Dunta since his man stopped at the first down marker and caught the ball while Dunta continued on down the field and did not appear to return to assist with the tackle.

[jdog]

Originally Posted by cadahnic

Vinny in some cases like in the TAMPA 2 a dog would mean man coverage underneath unless no one comes out then blitz. Or a delayed blitz with read, but you likely know that already so this is more for everyone else than for you...

This explains the lack of a blitz. The RB came out; therefore, Orr covered him instead of blitzing.

Originally Posted by cadahnic

I hope that helps. If you need me to get overly technical and explain the nuances and reads I can do that also.

Thanks for the knowledge.

[jdog]

Originally Posted by cadahnic

In this case Drob had the deep zone, Orr had man on the underneath, Greenwood and Ryans would have been in zone also. Likely with Ryans deep third and Greenwood middle. One safety should be deep on Faggins side and one should have come up in sort of a robber position.

So Dunta did not screw up. It sounds like the Browns read our defense VERY well.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by jdog

Do you think Dunta screwed up? I would think it was Dunta since his man stopped at the first down marker and caught the ball while Dunta continued on down the field and did not appear to return to assist with the tackle.

I did think it was Dunta... but with the explanations from Vinny & Cadehinc... I have to take that back..... if he was in a deep zone, he did what he was supposed to do, and basically took KW II out of the play.... so good job Dunta.

then I would have to think Demeco screwed up, he was not deep on zone coverage, since the replays show him trailing KW II..... he may have been the underneath zone, who paid too much attention to the Browns' leading receiver.

But with Greenwood doing basically nothing.... could he have supposed to blitz, or provide underneath coverage for the other side, but ran with Demeco because of the QBs eyes??

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by jdog

So Dunta did not screw up. It sounds like the Browns read our defense VERY well.

I don't know about them reading our defense well. they were expecting man coverage.... that inside hook by Braylon Edwards would have put the smaller Dunta on his back with no way to defend the pass... a quick juke, and Braylon could of been off to the races.

Also had Dunta stayed with Braylon, Frye would have thrown it over the top to KW II for a bigger gain.

[AndreRulz]

they should run a lot of cover 2- man under.
its the best coverage on madden.