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Old 01-05-2007   #1
ledzeppelin229
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Default Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

http://nfl.com/news/story/9907670

I thought it was a pretty good read...the sort of stuff we've been saying on this board all season. It would be an enlightening piece for Richard Justice..I'm sure it gets pretty dark when your entire face is up a players behind. (No names will be mentioned.)

Quote:
(Jan. 4, 2007) -- There is no doubt that the NFL Rookies of the Year have had outstanding seasons. DeMeco Ryans, the Houston Texans linebacker taken in the second round, had 155 tackles, 3 sacks, five passes defended, one interception and one forced fumble. He was all over the field and should be a force for years to come.

....
(Non-Texans part but still worth reading)
....


With all this talk about great rookies, there's no mention of the first overall pick, Mario Williams. It's unfortunate he seems left out because his 4 sacks, 47 tackles and three passes defended appear pedestrian compared to other rookie performances. First, let me point out that the great Michael Strahan had one sack his rookie season and followed that up with 4 his second season.

Second, the Texans struggled this season as a team and opponents often had early leads and ran the ball, more providing fewer opportunities to sack the QB. For example, the Bears had close to 80 more pass attempts against them than the Texans had this season. Many times the Bears defense was in a pass situation, while a team like the Texans was defending the run.

Third, Williams would really benefit from an outstanding rusher on the opposite side. For example, when Julius Peppers was a rookie he had 12 sacks, but over on the opposite side, Mike Rucker had 10 sacks and that meant Peppers had some single block situations.

Fourth, Williams will forever be compared to Bush and Young because the Texans passed on both to take the defensive end. Bush and Young will always have flashier stats than Williams, who will probably be viewed as a guy with the question, "What happened to the No. 1 pick?"
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Old 01-05-2007   #2
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Didn't want to make a new thread for this, but wanted to share it.

I thought this was some weird reading about VY:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...nfl/index.html

"Vince Young missed the Titans' team flight to Philadelphia, and his reaction worried some people close to him. Upset at being left behind, Young indicated he wasn't going to make the trip on his own. But he did, and led the Titans to a victory. In the two days afterward, he didn't show up to watch film. The immaturity extended to the field at times. On Dec. 17 against the Jaguars he threw a third-down pass out of bounds to stop the clock after coaches told him not to throw it under any circumstance.
-- The Tennessean"

I remember that pass....the announcers minds were boggled at VY stopping the clock.
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Old 01-05-2007   #3
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

So according to this guy.... we got the 4th and 12th most valued picks with our first two. Considering Mario was hurt alot of this season, and in the end should move up this ladder quite a bit..... we have basically TWO pro bowl defensive type studs from ONE DRAFT to build around. Its a shame about spencer.... but man, our draft really was a good one.
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Old 01-05-2007   #4
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Quote:
First, let me point out that the great Michael Strahan had one sack his rookie season and followed that up with 4 his second season.
Exactly why we shouldnt give up on Mario. I honestly think alot of you mario bashers are going to be stuffing crow either next season or 2 seasons from now. I think we need to draft the best available DT to help make this happen.
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Old 01-05-2007   #5
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

1. Vince Young
2. Matt Leinart
3. Jay Cutler
4. DeMeco Ryans
5. Reggie Bush
6. Maurice Jones-Drew
7. Mark Anderson
8. Marques Colston
9. A.J. Hawk
10. Devin Hester
11. Kamerion Wimbley
12. Mario Williams
13. Nick Mangold
14. D'Brickashaw Ferguson
15. Santonio Holmes
16. Laurence Maroney
17. Joseph Addai
18. Marcus McNeill
19. Johnathan Joseph
20. Dawan Landry
**************************************
Here's the writers top 20 in hindsight, and much of it I agree with, especially
with the QBs going 1-2-3. Afterall no single other position is nearly as valuable as QB and these are 3 very good QBs. All for different reasons.
One of my biggest reservations about his ranking is making DeMeco #4 overall. And don't get me wrong, I love DeMeco but MLBs just don't go top 4
Same goes for Mangold - centers just don't go that high.
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Old 01-05-2007   #6
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

DeMeco should've been either 1 or 2. And MJD should've been the first running back.
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Old 01-05-2007   #7
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

i agree. i agree with vince at 1, but demeco's accomplishments were far greater than leinharts or cutlers. cutler hardly played until the second half of the season. he shouldnt be ahead of demeco bc of it. i agree that MJD shoulda been the first rb.
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Old 01-05-2007   #8
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

He forgot:

Fifth, Mario has been playing through pain for most of the year with a foot injury.
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Old 01-05-2007   #9
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

OT Marcus McNeill should be MUCH higher rated. He should be around #5 or #6. He has done wonders in San Diego. Why Cutler is #3 I will never know. The team was 7-2 with Plummer then went into the tank once Cutler was made the starter.....they didn't make the playoffs.

my top 10

young
leinart
demeco
jones-drew
bush
mcneill
colston
dbrick
addai
mario

as for most value where they were picked I would go with Colston #1 and Demeco #2
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Old 01-05-2007   #10
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
OT Marcus McNeill should be MUCH higher rated. He should be around #5 or #6. He has done wonders in San Diego. Why Cutler is #3 I will never know. The team was 7-2 with Plummer then went into the tank once Cutler was made the starter.....they didn't make the playoffs.
7-4 before
2-3 with cutler- including SD so it wasnt that bad..SF was the only really bad loss
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Old 01-05-2007   #11
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

1. Vince Young
2. Jay Cutler
3. Matt Leinart
4. Marcus McNeill
5. Maurice Jones-Drew
6. Marques Colston
7. Reggie Bush
8. A.J. Hawk
9. Kamerion Wimbley
10. Mario Williams
11. Laurence Maroney
12. Joseph Addai
13. D'Brickashaw Ferguson
14. DeMeco Ryans
15. Devin Hester
16. Mark Anderson
17. Santonio Holmes
18. Johnathan Joseph
19. Nick Mangold
20. Elvis Dumervill
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Old 01-05-2007   #12
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
OT Marcus McNeill should be MUCH higher rated. He should be around #5 or #6. He has done wonders in San Diego. Why Cutler is #3 I will never know. The team was 7-2 with Plummer then went into the tank once Cutler was made the starter.....they didn't make the playoffs.

my top 10

young
leinart
demeco
jones-drew
bush
mcneill
colston
dbrick
addai
mario

as for most value where they were picked I would go with Colston #1 and Demeco #2
The fact that you've left Cutler off the list tells me all I need to know about your list.


Very nice post LedZepplin.
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Last edited by threetoedpete; 01-05-2007 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 01-05-2007   #13
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
1. Vince Young
2. Jay Cutler
3. Matt Leinart
4. Marcus McNeill
5. Maurice Jones-Drew
6. Marques Colston
7. Reggie Bush
8. A.J. Hawk
9. Kamerion Wimbley
10. Mario Williams
11. Laurence Maroney
12. Joseph Addai
13. D'Brickashaw Ferguson
14. DeMeco Ryans
15. Devin Hester
16. Mark Anderson
17. Santonio Holmes
18. Johnathan Joseph
19. Nick Mangold
20. Elvis Dumervill
Is that supposed to be a joke?
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Old 01-05-2007   #14
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
The fact that you've left Cutler off the list tells me all I need to know about your list.
Cutler has far and away the best arm of the "Big Three". And while he can't
run like VY, unlike Leinert he does have good mobility and is considered to be
fairly tough and durable.
While Vince has been fabulous his rookie year, over the longer term Cutler may very well be the best of the QBs and therefor at the head of this very
strong Draft class.
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Old 01-05-2007   #15
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Very Elegantly put nunsguy...but perls before swine and all off that. I see it too. Takes longer for some I suppose.
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Old 01-05-2007   #16
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky View Post
Is that supposed to be a joke?
OK, whats so funny ? Let me guess, you don't like where I've ranked DeMeco ?
Inside backers, no matter how productive in tackles, just aren't aren't ranked
that highly when compared to other D guys like Down Lineman, elite pass rushers, outside backers, and corners.
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Old 01-05-2007   #17
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Are you guys s s stupid! Bush should always be # 1 on the list no matter what. I cant believe this, putting one of the best players ever lower than 1. U crazy wigger!
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Old 01-05-2007   #18
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
OK, whats so funny ? Let me guess, you don't like where I've ranked DeMeco ?
Inside backers, no matter how productive in tackles, just aren't aren't ranked
that highly when compared to other D guys like Down Lineman, elite pass rushers, outside backers, and corners.
Thats not true, a elite middle linebacker is a position you can build a defense around. Chicago and Baltimore. Urlacher was taken ninth and I'm sure there are teams above the spot where the Bears grabbed him that would love to have him.

You look at every great defense in this league and they all are very stout up the middle. Which is the reason why DeMeco at #14 is crazy. Pat Kirwan wasn't ranking positions, he was ranking the best rookies.........DeMeco doesn't drop out of the top five. According to your list Devin Hester at #15 is (right behind a player that had the most tackles in the past 20 years as a rookie MLB) you have a special teamer.......................which is what Hester was, special teamers don't get taken in the first round let alone top 15.
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Old 01-05-2007   #19
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
Cutler has far and away the best arm of the "Big Three". And while he can't
run like VY, unlike Leinert he does have good mobility and is considered to be
fairly tough and durable.
While Vince has been fabulous his rookie year, over the longer term Cutler may very well be the best of the QBs and therefor at the head of this very
strong Draft class.
Watching him play, I just don't see it. He get's rattled pretty easily, and looked like JakePlummer back there a few games. After a full season of being the man next year, I don't think he'll hold up.

& being more mobile than Lienart?? I don't think so. Lienart has looked very good, and mobile enough for a QB...

I'm sorry, but I don't see Cutler in the same class as Lienart & Young...... I think Denver made a mistake moving up to get him in hindsight.
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Old 01-05-2007   #20
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan on the 2006 Rookies

Watching him play, I just don't see it. He get's rattled pretty easily, and looked like JakePlummer back there a few games. After a full season of being the man next year, I don't think he'll hold up.

& being more mobile than Lienart?? I don't think so. Lienart has looked very good, and mobile enough for a QB...

I'm sorry, but I don't see Cutler in the same class as Lienart & Young...... I think Denver made a mistake moving up to get him in hindsight.[/quote]

man yo wack, cutler is already better than elway
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