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Old 01-04-2007   #1
Wolf
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Default why didn't we use the shotgun?

http://www.humankinetics.com/product...xcerpt_id=4058

Quote:
A drawback of any shotgun offense is the predictability of the back set. Much of the base running game takes the back from one side of the quarterback to the other, allowing the defense to key the back for play direction. In the offensive staff room every week, we make a conscious decision to remove keys from the back. To do this, we use backfield motion, have the back cross the quarterback’s face to pass protect, or use the tailback as an overload to the side on which he lines up, using a speed option or free-releasing him in the passing game.

Another weakness is having only one edge secured. By having three wide receivers in the game, we forfeit the ability to protect the point of attack on both sides of the formation. We attempt to turn this weakness into a strength by using a number of techniques in both the running and passing games.
Quote:
In the passing game, the first problem is the same as in the running game—the defense can always outnumber the protection. Our base protection is a six-man protection in which the tight end releases, so we can protect only three to a side. We protect against pressure by keeping both the tight end and running back in to block, using a seven-man protection that can protect both edges if the calls are made correctly. However, we do prefer to use the six-man protection, so we must have answers for both man and zone pressure. Typically, we see four to a side zone pressure, usually away from the tight end. The most common man pressure we see is four across, often with some defensive lineman bailing out inside. We’ll plan each week how to handle the various pressures, but our typical response is to build hots for zone pressure and check versus man pressure.
I seriously doubt an NFL team would have to worry about a center (NFL caliber) being able to snap a ball to a QB in the shotgun formation.. I find that to be too hard to believe..


I wish I could have found another site and about the workings of the shotgun, but after yahooing a few links this the best I could find.
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Old 01-04-2007   #2
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Everybody knows why.
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Old 01-04-2007   #3
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Shotgun?
Texans can't handle the blitz, and Carr not smart enough.
That's what I think.
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Old 01-04-2007   #4
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

I'll break it down

1) Too complicated for Carr and

2) It confused Carr

Marino, Manning and many others use it without a hitch.
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Old 01-04-2007   #5
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

I was trying to figure out what Fresno states offensive philosophy was back then and how I almost feel the Texan staff ruined David..

Quote:
#

2001 (11-3, 6-2 WAC)
# Defeated three BCS nationally-ranked schools, Colorado, Oregon State and Wisconsin to start the season. The wins over Colorado and Wisconsin both came on the road.
# Defeated Oregon State, the No. 1 ranked team by Sports Illustrated and the highest-ranked team ever to play in Fresno, by a resounding score of 44-24.
# Raced to a No. 8 ranking in the nation.
# David Carr (offensive) and Alan Harper (defense) were named WAC Players of the Year.
# David Carr won the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm award as the nation's top senior quarterback and was selected the nation's offensive player of the year by the College Football News.
http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-...ill_pat00.html

I am still trying to find the offensive philosophy FSU employed back then.
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Old 01-04-2007   #6
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

This is from the KHOU website... Very confusing because Kubiak states that Flanagan did it well, yet they rarely ran it when he was playing. It sounds like he's trying to divert attention away from Carr again. I remember reading something last year about how he can't take his eyes off of the defense without everything spinning out of control in his mind.

http://www.khou.com/sports/texans/st...k.ce2ece2.html

OUT OF THE SHOTGUN:@ Kubiak was evasive early in the week about why he avoids putting Carr in the shotgun formation. On Thursday, he said it depends on how quickly center Drew Hodgdon, a second-year pro who began the season as the backup, masters the longer snaps.

Hodgdon has started two games since veteran Mike Flanagan was placed on injured reserve with a rib injury.

"Flanagan did it well," Kubiak said. "If you don't have confidence in it, you just come up under center and do the same thing. Really, it all depends on how Drew handles it."

Kubiak said Monday he'd like to use the formation more to protect Carr better. Carr has been sacked 36 times this season.

"When your quarterback is getting pressured, you'd love to move him back there, you'd love to give him more time," Kubiak said. "We've got some things we've got to work out and we have been working on them and if we can get them fixed, you may see us do it some more."
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Old 01-04-2007   #7
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I'll break it down

1) Too complicated for Carr and

2) It confused Carr

Marino, Manning and many others use it without a hitch.
I read or heard that the coaches are trying to slow Carr down . When he's in the shotgun he goes even faster .
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Old 01-04-2007   #8
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
I was trying to figure out what Fresno states offensive philosophy was back then and how I almost feel the Texan staff ruined David..


http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-...ill_pat00.html

I am still trying to find the offensive philosophy FSU employed back then.

College ain't the pros and there have been many a great college QB fail miserably in the NFL. The coaching staff certainly didn't help Dave, but they can't take all of the blame.
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Old 01-04-2007   #9
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

It's okay...its just item # 2345 that need a fixin' in Carr's brain.
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Old 01-04-2007   #10
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
College ain't the pros and there have been many a great college QB fail miserably in the NFL. The coaching staff certainly didn't help Dave, but they can't take all of the blame.
that is very true, but watching David over the years,he's regressed, his long ball is a shotput now ... among other things
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Old 01-04-2007   #11
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

I remember him playing out of the shotgun for a bit in the Browns game. We were also in it on a 3rd and short and I'm saying to myself "Shotgun on 3rd and short? That's gotta be a QB draw. There's no way in hell Kubiak is actually going to let him throw it on 3rd and short." Kubiak really doesn't have much faith in Carr.
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Old 01-04-2007   #12
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

SHOTGUN?? SHOTGUN?? R u guys serious. He can't hit anything with a football. What makes you think he can hit anything with a shotgun...lol...j/k
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Old 01-04-2007   #13
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

When McKinney stepped in at center, (Indy and Cleveland) Texans used the shotgun.
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Old 01-04-2007   #14
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I'll break it down

1) Too complicated for Carr and

2) It confused Carr

Marino, Manning and many others use it without a hitch.
This is what makes this site unbearable at times... Just a ridiculous comment. There is nothing to complicate matters and nothing to confuse in the shotgun. MANY West Coasts teams simply do not like the shotgun because they feel it disrupts their timing passing game. So save your Carr shots for other parts of the board. This is just gratuitous on your part. I like jokes just as much as the next guy...but c'mon frog!
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Old 01-04-2007   #15
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
I was trying to figure out what Fresno states offensive philosophy was back then and how I almost feel the Texan staff ruined David..


http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-...ill_pat00.html

I am still trying to find the offensive philosophy FSU employed back then.
They were and are a spread offense team. They used the shotgun when Carr was there.
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Old 01-04-2007   #16
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Here's a thread I started a few weeks ago about it.

Kubes had a reason, but he wanted to keep it in-house.
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Old 01-04-2007   #17
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachdent View Post
This is what makes this site unbearable at times... Just a ridiculous comment. There is nothing to complicate matters and nothing to confuse in the shotgun. MANY West Coasts teams simply do not like the shotgun because they feel it disrupts their timing passing game. So save your Carr shots for other parts of the board. This is just gratuitous on your part. I like jokes just as much as the next guy...but c'mon frog!
In all fairness, Kubiak, himself, has stated that we don't run shotgun due to personell issues. It has nothing to do with scheme.
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Old 01-04-2007   #18
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Ha something just crossed my mind. We should have had a set with Pittman long snapping it back to Carr 15 yards back. That should have given DC plenty of time.
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Old 01-04-2007   #19
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEROtheZERO View Post
In all fairness, Kubiak, himself, has stated that we don't run shotgun due to personell issues. It has nothing to do with scheme.
I dunno, but I think that was in reference to Drew Hogdon when he was playing center for a few games, as apparently Drew was inexperienced
at snapping the ball deep to the QB when in the shotgun.
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Old 01-04-2007   #20
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Default Re: why didn't we use the shotgun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEROtheZERO View Post
In all fairness, Kubiak, himself, has stated that we don't run shotgun due to personell issues. It has nothing to do with scheme.
I was responding to the nasty comments directed at Carr. It doesn't have to do with intelligence, being complicated or confusing. That is nonsense.

Donovan McNabb does not go into the gun. West Coast.
For years, Favre did not go into the gun. West Coast.
Joe Montana did not use the shotgun. West Coast.

The list is is larger, but there is no way anyone is going to question those quarterbacks for not being comfortable in the gun or question their intelligence. That is ridiculous.

Now having said that...I do think we SHOULD use the shotgun! Carr should be made to adapt. I don't think it is much of an adaptation anyway because he played out of the gun in college and only threw for almost 5,000 yards and 46 touchdowns in his senior season.

Carr does have legs and he can use them. I was very excited in one game when we put him in the gun and emptied the backfield and Carr went on a QB run for 12 yards. He is a spread offense guy and this is the system he would most flourish in. I will tell you this...if you put David Carr in the Tennessee Titan offense, he will put up MUCH better numbers than he did this year in Houston. I will also tell you this... if you put Vince Young in the Houston system this year, he would NOT have put up the same numbers he did in Tennessee. This is not a comparision of the two.

This is saying that the spread offense highlights quarterbacks with legs. It simplifies reads. The West Coast is far more complex, far wordier and less explosive than spread offenses.

Note to VY lovers...read the above comments carefully! I am NOT saying Carr is better than Young. Relax. Not so. Trying to explain why not much has been done with our offense to highlight Carr's attributes instead of just ripping him for his inadequacies. That's not how you coordinate. That's not how you deal with your quarterbacks.
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