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Old 10-11-2004   #21
georgewashington
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Exactly, thats why the texans shouldnt have spent so much on him, he was not projected to go near that early. I know that he has potential, but he was not a Suggs that Baltimore picked last year. And that is what is wrong with the pay differences to rookies, why spend that many millions on a hunch. why pick playing time by the paycheck?
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Old 10-11-2004   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquescas
Babin is where we invested alot of picks and alot more money than Peek.
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Originally Posted by georgewashington
Exactly, thats why the texans shouldnt have spent so much on him, he was not projected to go near that early.
A couple of second day picks and a third? That was the net parlay for Babin. Since when was a bunch of roster fodder a high price if he becomes a serious starting OLB?
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Old 10-11-2004   #23
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Originally Posted by georgewashington
Exactly, thats why the texans shouldnt have spent so much on him, he was not projected to go near that early.
Many did not have him that high, but then again some did. Peek certainly brings an intensity and eventually IMO the Texans will have him as a starter. That said he was absolutely miserable on run D against Pittsburgh. He has played better as a sub during the regular season. Of course the rest of our D sucks at stopping the run anyway right now. Prior to the season, I wanted Wong to take Foreman's spot inside at some point and put Peek at ROLB. Problem is Foreman has stepped up his game quite a bit this year.

By the way, was it just me or did Babin get completely raped by the refs not calling holding on the 1st Moss TD?
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Old 10-11-2004   #24
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well Vinny what i mean is that Babin not only being a first round pick, but one we had to trade up for means we invested alot to get him, and he would have to play very poorly to lose his position, or Peek would have to play extremely well. Neither has happened. Peek was a 3rd round pick and we can afford for him to learn the game slower because he isn't millions of dollars sitting on the bench.


I know it should be about who is playing the best or whatever, but in the NFL salary means something. You don't think Bradford is looking over his shoulder when he makes 2.2 million and Armstrong who makes 2 million dollars less than him is outplaying him?
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Old 10-11-2004   #25
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I think salary plays a role, but I'm not sure it's a deciding factor in this case. If Peek played better against the run, or kept contain then I'm sure Capers would have him in the starting lineup, and use Babin as a situational pass rusher. Much like the scenario that played out in Cincinatti last season. The Bengals invested alot of money in Palmer, but they wanted to develop him slowly and gave the starting job to Kitna. Palmer is in now because he represents the futrue of the organization, and he's got a high salary. Babin and Peek are both young players, and both represent the future of the organization. So the team wants to develop both players. If Babin was a liability to the team when he's in the lineup I'm sure that the Texans would put Peek in the lineup if he were a better option. I don't see Babin as a liability, and I've seen him play better and better in each game this season. Peek is great, but he's got to learn his responsibilities when he's on the field. I feel he'll eventually be starting opposite of Babin at the other OLB position, but until that time he's still a very good situational pass rusher.
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Old 10-11-2004   #26
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Babin will be a cornerstone of our defense for many years to come. Be patient with him. The transition from DE to OLB is tough. Terrell Suggs wasn't even an every down player when he was drafted. It took him a full year to become a complete LB.
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Old 10-12-2004   #27
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he's played 5 games for God's sake! He's never played LB before, and is still learning the position. If you think they messed up by drafting him, don't blame him, blame management.

Can we please evaluate him after one complete season? Geez...unreal
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Old 10-12-2004   #28
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Here is a link that reviews how week 5 rookies fared-

http://www.gbnreport.com/rookiereport.htm

the Texans planned to use Babin in lots of pass rushing downs, he reminds me of New England's Teddy Brewski, I also believe the Patriots were rumored to be seriously drafting Babin with their 2nd 1st round pick #32. When the Texans learned of this and that Babin would not be available with their 2nd round pick #40 they traded it to Tennessee along with #71 & #103. The Pats had to go another direction taking TE Ben Watson who is hurt I believe. The Titans used #40 for their TE Ben Troupe, #71 DT Randy Starks & #103 Bo Schobel (out for season). You be the judge
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Old 10-12-2004   #29
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Babin is going to be a good player, but he needs to be playing what he was projected to play, a DE. If you look at all the draft analysis it talks about how he got up to 280 pounds at the combines and how he was a good rusher, even playing downs as a DT in college. Clearly looking at that and his production so far this year (stopping the run and more inside rushing skills as opposed to speed moves) why would the texans not be interested in playing him as a DE at least in passing downs? That would allow the best three rushers in the game, being Wong, Peek and Babin. Through in the blitz of Sharper up the middle or Robinson from the corner and there are going to be sacks.
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Old 10-12-2004   #30
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Babin was projected to play OLB with us. Plain and simple. There is no way he could play a 3-4 end as a starter. Frankly Babin was considered a risky pick as a 4-3 down lineman due to his small size and that is why most projected him as a later pick....because most teams run a 4-3. Also, Babin does drop down as an end in passing situations. You will see this more and more as he gets comfortable in our defense also.
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Old 10-12-2004   #31
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
By the way, was it just me or did Babin get completely raped by the refs not calling holding on the 1st Moss TD?
There were several times where there should have been a hold called (if you use the call on Pitts as a guage for holds in this game), but that one was so obvious. Also, Hoverrated got away with a couple of late shots, including one right on Carr's noggin.
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Old 10-12-2004   #32
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the one thing i don't get is the obsession with getting our best pass rushers in as starters. teams don't pass every play. yes the 3-4 is schemed as a blitz orienented defense but isn't it the number of guys you send that makes it succesful more than anything else? and as its been pointed out numerous times before, unless we send peek on an outside blitz everydown, then he's a much bigger liability on the field than babin. i don't see whats so hard to see about that.....
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Old 10-12-2004   #33
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for some reason, whenever I try to think of a comparison to Babin, I always come up with Michael McCrary. not a flashy player but plays with a ton of heart and hustle. he was the true definition of a non stop motor. If you have seen McCrary play, you would know what I mean. of course McCrary was slightly bigger than Babin but not by much.
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Old 10-12-2004   #34
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I think Babin's pass rush has been improving. He isn't as hesitant. You can tell he is beginning to get over that learning curve.
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Old 10-12-2004   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I know that he has potential, but he was not a Suggs that Baltimore picked last year.
I agree. That is why Suggs was the 10th overall player taken in 2003 and Babin was the 27th taken in 2004.
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Old 10-12-2004   #36
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When the Ravens drafted Suggs, he was strictly used as a situational pass rusher because Suggs mightily struggled against the run and in coverage. We drafted Babin and immediately put him out on the field as an every down player. Babin was put in a much more difficult situation than Suggs so he will take his lumps throughout the season as he learns the position. It took Suggs a whole season plus training camp to become a complete OLB. Be patient with Babin.
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Old 10-12-2004   #37
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Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS
When the Ravens drafted Suggs, he was strictly used as a situational pass rusher because Suggs mightily struggled against the run and in coverage. We drafted Babin and immediately put him out on the field as an every down player. Babin was put in a much more difficult situation than Suggs so he will take his lumps throughout the season as he learns the position. It took Suggs a whole season plus training camp to become a complete OLB. Be patient with Babin.
Suggs was penciled in as starter for a few weeks early last year. He lost the starting job last season and has only receintly had enough of a well-rounded game to start. Common knowledge is it takes roughly 3 years for a 'tweener' to convert fully from a College end to an NFL OLB.
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Old 10-12-2004   #38
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I don't know about a full 3 years. That may be stretching it a bit. Maybe going INTO their 3rd season. Suggs has looked great so far this season. But the point I was making when I mentioned Suggs' name earlier in the thread was that what we are seeing from Babin now is nothing compared to how good he will be after a full season playing the position. As a rookie, all Suggs was asked to do was rush the passer. We are asking for a whole lot more from Babin when compared to Suggs in his rookie season.
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Old 10-12-2004   #39
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exactly, it took suggs time just like it will babin. not many rookies should be playing every snap, there is more to learning than taking lumps. and once again he is allowed to take his lumps on the field while peek is taking lumps on the sideline. give the kid a shot sometime, taking lumps on or off the field is all about the money
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Old 10-12-2004   #40
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Originally Posted by georgewashington
exactly, it took suggs time just like it will babin. not many rookies should be playing every snap, there is more to learning than taking lumps. and once again he is allowed to take his lumps on the field while peek is taking lumps on the sideline. give the kid a shot sometime, taking lumps on or off the field is all about the money



Weren't you saying Babin should be playing DE?
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