Introducing your Houston Broncos!!!

[coachdent]

Dayne and Putzier about ready to get some company.

Notable Broncos free agents -
QB- Jake Plummer
OT - Dwayne Carswell
DL - Michael Myers
DB - Roc Alexander (restricted)

All will get phone calls...

Over / under on signees? I'll put it at 1.5.
I'll take the over!

[Runner]

They worked Carswell out this year. I still don't know how he didn't make the team. Too high on Bedell, I guess.

[Koolaid Time]

Originally Posted by coachdent

Dayne and Putzier about ready to get some company.

Notable Broncos free agents -
QB- Jake Plummer
OT - Dwayne Carswell
DL - Michael Myers
DB - Roc Alexander (restricted)

All will get phone calls...

Over / under on signees? I'll put it at 1.5.
I'll take the over!

You forget the Green Bay influence with the Texans... some of their Free Agents will get calls as well..

[mexican_texan]

Roc Alexander's been with the Texans all season.

[Scooter]

roc's already a texan and in all honesty i'd give the other 3 a shot during TC. plummer's an upgrade over carr, and it never hurts to give as many linemen a chance as possible. carswell didnt make it the first time around and i dont think he played at all last year so it's likely his football days are done.

[GuerillaBlack]

I also heard that Tatum Bell might be getting the boot from Denver and they might stick with Mike Bell. They have too many bells there anyway, so I hope they do release Tatum.

[Imatexanfan]

This sounds familiar to my post a couple of days ago, "scavenging former players."

Having Kubes and Sherman might be a good thing come FA. Who would you scavenge out of their former teams' FA's?

Broncos
Burns, Keith LB UFA
Carlisle, Cooper OG UFA
Chukwurah, Patrick LB UFA
Devoe, Todd WR ERFA
Green, Louis LB RFA
Johnson, Kyle FB UFA
Morgan, Quincy WR UFA
Myers, Michael DT UFA
Peterson, Kenny DE UFA
Sapp, Cecil RB UFA

Packers
Allen, Kenderick DT UFA
Cole, Colin DT ERFA
Davis, Rob LS UFA
Gbaja-Biamila, Kabeer DE UFA
Green, Ahman RB UFA
Herron, Noah RB ERFA
Humphrey, Tory TE ERFA
Jenkins, Cullen DT RFA
Lee, Donald TE UFA
Martin, David TE UFA
Ryan, Jon P ERFA
Taylor, Ben LB UFA
White, Tracy LB UFA

**No hard feelin's dawg**

[PoolMaster21]

Originally Posted by Koolaid Time

You forget the Green Bay influence with the Texans... some of their Free Agents will get calls as well..

Mike Sherman will probably fill one of the open head coaching jobs, so the Green Bay influence will decrease significantly.

[yourfavoritetexan42]

Originally Posted by Scooter

roc's already a texan and in all honesty i'd give the other 3 a shot during TC. plummer's an upgrade over carr, and it never hurts to give as many linemen a chance as possible. carswell didnt make it the first time around and i dont think he played at all last year so it's likely his football days are done.

Plummer an upgrade over carr?

Plummer through more interceptions in 12 games then carr did in 16. Carr is faster and stronger arm. I don't know how plummer is better than carr... really don't...

[PoolMaster21]

Originally Posted by yourfavoritetexan42

Plummer an upgrade over carr?

Plummer through more interceptions in 12 games then carr did in 16. Carr is faster and stronger arm. I don't know how plummer is better than carr... really don't...

Agreed - he's just the biggest "name" FA - I hate to say this, but by process of elimination Carr might still be our QB next year - I don't see an upgrade to any of the available free agents. Draft Kolb and let Carr sweat in '07!

[TheRealJoker]

Originally Posted by yourfavoritetexan42

Plummer an upgrade over carr?

Plummer through more interceptions in 12 games then carr did in 16. Carr is faster and stronger arm. I don't know how plummer is better than carr... really don't...

The only thing Plummer has on Carr is he's proven that he can quarterback a playoff caliber team. That and he is someone other than Carr which no doubt helps him with the Houston fan base. As far as skills though, I think Carr is superior, but we have not had a playoff caliber team ever so he has yet to prove he can qb a team of that caliber.

[TheRealJoker]

Btw, i'd like us to bring in Michael Myers and maybe Tatum Bell depending on the price. I doubt Kabeer G-baja Biamila would get to free agency but if he does that looks like our pass rush specialist!!!

[Tulip]

Originally Posted by yourfavoritetexan42

Plummer an upgrade over carr?

Plummer through more interceptions in 12 games then carr did in 16. Carr is faster and stronger arm. I don't know how plummer is better than carr... really don't...

I could see how Kubiak might think that Plummer would look more like 2004-2005 Plummer than 2006 Plummer because Plummer would be back under Kubiak's guidance. If I were Kubiak, I would probably be more confident in someone who had success under me than someone who had not.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by yourfavoritetexan42

Plummer an upgrade over carr?

Plummer through more interceptions in 12 games then carr did in 16. Carr is faster and stronger arm. I don't know how plummer is better than carr... really don't...

this will be my only post on the subject in hopes it doesnt become a carr thread. plummer threw as many touchdowns in 11 games as carr did in 16 (our biggest problem is scoring). he won 7 games this year in 11 starts and is roughly 37-17 as a starter in denver ... winning 11 consecutive home games across 04-05. along with carr's INT's he's also a fumble machine. plummer threw for more touchdowns in 05 than carr has in a single season (18) and threw for 27 in 04 (along with 4000+ yards in 04) under gary kubiak. besides his accomplishments in denver, he did manage to get the pathetic cardinals to the playoffs in 98 (even beating dallas in the first round) ... the last time they've had a winning season.

you have zero arguement that carr is better than plummer outside of obvious physical talents ... talents which have lead to next to nothing on the field.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by yourfavoritetexan42

Plummer an upgrade over carr?

Plummer through more interceptions in 12 games then carr did in 16. Carr is faster and stronger arm. I don't know how plummer is better than carr... really don't...

Plummer DID take the Arizona Cardinals to their first playoff victory in a zillion years and he did it with a team that wasn't great. He throws a LOT more TD's than Carr and he throws for a lot more yards. Carr might have a stronger arm that Plummer but Plummer completes more longer passes. On what scale is Carr better than Plummer? He has about the same TD to INT ratio that Carr has.

With Plummer, you get a guy that sometimes tries too hard and thinks he has to win the game all by himself. Just like Carr. But, Plummer actually puts some points on the board.

Both guys have their warts and neither is a long term solution, but I'd take Plummer over Carr. At the beginning of this season, I wouldn't have said that and even think I said exactly the opposite in a thread. But Carr's performance this year has really poisoned me on Carr.

[eriadoc]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Jake Plummer has only shown that he can get to the playoffs and turn the ball over 4 times against the Steelers. That 13-3 Broncos team was good enough to go to the Super Bowl last year, except for one position. This notion that Plummer "took them" to the playoffs is laughable. And the year he "took" the Cardinals to the playoffs, he had a pretty darn good defense behind him and he threw 20 picks and fumbled 12 times, 5 of which were lost. If that is "taking a team" to the playoffs, then I have full confidence Carr can accomplish that - he's not quite as good at turning the ball over as Jake "the Mistake", but with practice, I'm sure he can get there.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Actually, I'm pretty sure Jake Plummer has only shown that he can get to the playoffs and turn the ball over 4 times against the Steelers. That 13-3 Broncos team was good enough to go to the Super Bowl last year, except for one position. This notion that Plummer "took them" to the playoffs is laughable. And the year he "took" the Cardinals to the playoffs, he had a pretty darn good defense behind him and he threw 20 picks and fumbled 12 times, 5 of which were lost. If that is "taking a team" to the playoffs, then I have full confidence Carr can accomplish that - he's not quite as good at turning the ball over as Jake "the Mistake", but with practice, I'm sure he can get there.

Sure, he threw 20 picks but he also threw 27 touchdowns (iirc). That's what you get with Plummer. He makes bad decisions and turns the ball over... but he'll also put up some points. Right now, we've got someone who makes bad decisions and turns the ball over and DOESN'T put up any points. Neither one of these guys is a good QB. Both of them are going to lose games for you. But if you can get him to focus (and Kubiak has gotten him to focus), Plummer is going to pull one or two games out for you... it's been so long since Carr pulled a game out that I frankly can't recall it happening.

So, I'd say Plummer wins one or two games for you that Carr doesn't as well as losing all the games for you that Carr would have lost for you. So I see Plummer as a step up. A baby step, but a step.

If we need a temporary, stop-gap QB while we're grooming someone else to start, I'd prefer Plummer to Carr because I think we could at least show improvement with Plummer.

[aj.]

Plummer could step in today and run the full version of the offense, not just the dumbed down version.

Plummer can actually look downfield while rolling out of the pocket. He has far better escapability from the pocket and improvisational skills than Carr.

Plummer plays more out of control than Carr, but it's easier to pull a wet noodle then to push one.

Plummer's mistakes have been forcing balls into coverage in intermediate and deep zones. Carr doesn't know what an intermediate zone is.

Plummer has his own problems but he appears to be far less damaged between the ears than Carr.

While not the savior, Plummer would be an upgrade at the position and most important not a liability (on this team).

Roc was quickly becoming one of our best special teams players before he was hurt. I know Kubiak was very high on him and he no doubt will be back in Texans camp.

Tatum is a fumbling machine. No thanks.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

Sure, he threw 20 picks but he also threw 27 touchdowns (iirc). That's what you get with Plummer. He makes bad decisions and turns the ball over... but he'll also put up some points. Right now, we've got someone who makes bad decisions and turns the ball over and DOESN'T put up any points. Neither one of these guys is a good QB. Both of them are going to lose games for you. But if you can get him to focus (and Kubiak has gotten him to focus), Plummer is going to pull one or two games out for you... it's been so long since Carr pulled a game out that I frankly can't recall it happening.

So, I'd say Plummer wins one or two games for you that Carr doesn't as well as losing all the games for you that Carr would have lost for you. So I see Plummer as a step up. A baby step, but a step.

If we need a temporary, stop-gap QB while we're grooming someone else to start, I'd prefer Plummer to Carr because I think we could at least show improvement with Plummer.

The year we are referring to, 1998, he threw 17 TDs, 20 INTs, and fumbled 12 times (lost 5 of them). Those are Carr numbers. Plummer has had one remarkable season in his entire career, and that was last year. He simply didn't make that many mistakes last year and had good production - until the playoffs. If y'all think Plummer is an upgrade to Carr, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. That's fine. But to perpetuate the myth that Plummer took his teams to the playoffs is a little ridiculous, IMO. I know it's en vogue to hate Carr around here, but if you put Carr on that Broncos team from last year, with two years of Kubiak's coaching, he'd be as good or better than Plummer. I'm all for losing Carr if we can get an upgrade, but I don't think Plummer's an upgrade. I'd definitely be interested in Russell or Kolb in the draft, but I don't see too many feasible options on the FA market. I'd rather take my chances with a Sage/Carr competition and groom the young QB.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

The year we are referring to, 1998, he threw 17 TDs, 20 INTs, and fumbled 12 times (lost 5 of them). Those are Carr numbers. Plummer has had one remarkable season in his entire career, and that was last year. He simply didn't make that many mistakes last year and had good production - until the playoffs. If y'all think Plummer is an upgrade to Carr, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. That's fine. But to perpetuate the myth that Plummer took his teams to the playoffs is a little ridiculous, IMO. I know it's en vogue to hate Carr around here, but if you put Carr on that Broncos team from last year, with two years of Kubiak's coaching, he'd be as good or better than Plummer. I'm all for losing Carr if we can get an upgrade, but I don't think Plummer's an upgrade. I'd definitely be interested in Russell or Kolb in the draft, but I don't see too many feasible options on the FA market. I'd rather take my chances with a Sage/Carr competition and groom the young QB.

For some reason, I had remembered his TD/Int totals from 2004 as being from 1998 (27/20 vs. 17/20). My bad.

But... even at 17/20, Carr has never thrown 17 TD's in a season even in his best season to date.

And although I used the word "take", I'm not someone who believes that wins and losses should all be laid at the feet of the QB. Plummer had some good players on that 98 team and they had a very easy schedule (iirc, they didn't beat any teams with a winning record until beating the cowgirls in the playoffs.) However, that doesn't change the fact that he was the QB of a team that made it to the playoffs and won a game. A team that had/has a history of not getting to the playoffs. That's got to count for something.

With Carr as he is today, I don't think he has the arm or the guts to make the throws down the field. I think the injury to his arm that he had a couple of years ago has sapped his strength. And I think the psychological damage has been done and he's broken now. I really don't think he's salvageable. He's a Jim Everett.

But if you think that Carr is better, well... nobody's perfect.