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Old 12-28-2006   #1
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Default Fixing David.......

....... Even David's staunchest supporters must admit that David needs to be fixed. A big reason Gary Kubiak is in Houston, is the success he's had with "fixing" QBs.

This thread, is for guys who want to talk football. If the extent of your opinion is David Carr sucks..... or that David can be great.... try to refrain from posting here.

Instead, what I would like, is for everyone to list the three aspects of David's game they feel he needs to work on......... or if you're a homer, list the three things that puts him in the class of the elites....

I'm a hater, so I'll list the three things he needs to get better at....... the most.

I think Kubiak has done a great job keeping David's eyes downfield(albeit on one reciever) & identifying the problem with his feet(not the happy feet thing)..... but there is more to do.


1) Reading the defense.

--When he comes to the LOS, he should be able to see what the defense is doing, and note any obvious mismatches. Or at the very least, he should understand that certain players lined up in pass protection against the sideline is an advantage, and motioning the TE(the player being covered by the DE converted to LB) to the right tackle is a bad move when the play is a run designed to go off the right tackle.

--Owen, AJ, Moulds lined up in the slot against smaller DBs is an advantage for us.

--AJ or Moulds covered by a LB in the slot is an advantage for us.... these should be the #1 read, regardless what the play called for.

2) Ball placement..... we've finally got a real threat at the #2 WR spot, and a threat at recieving tightend that should keep Safeties Honest. We are getting AJ & Moulds on one on one coverage often, and not putting the ball where it needs to be.

3) short termed memory........ when things go bad for David, he tends to get in a funk. After a sack, 9 times out of 10, the next play is going to be a run play, so David can gather himself. After an INT..... he is reluctant to go to that reciever again, much less down field again.
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Old 12-28-2006   #2
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

On the radio ... they were saying David is not allowed to audible because they want him to learn how to go through his progresions . That is a loud statement there .
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Old 12-28-2006   #3
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

Only one point really. I believe one of the faults of Carr is that he lacks the cool. Once pressured he screws up his footing, his reads and seems to lose any vision he might have. Once he's pressured (sometimes real, sometimes imagined) he does stupid things, and most of all, he stops being a leader on the field.

It's a mentality thing, and if it's fixable, Kubiak is the guy who can do it.
Carr's looked better this year, but still, when 'something' goes wrong, he seems to revert back to confused and intimidated David, making stupid decisions.

Teach Carr to keep his cool and never lose his head, and he'll be an above average QB, failure to fix it... well, we've seen that already, and it's not pretty.
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Old 12-28-2006   #4
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

He's improved by not running out of bounds behind the LOS anymore and getting rid of the ball. Other than that, he hasn't been much different from past seasons. IMO, he's a workout warrior. He apparently does great in practice, but can't seem to achieve the same on gameday.
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Old 12-28-2006   #5
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

I think he telegraphs the plays. He doesn't "look off" the safety very well. JMO

He waits too long for the open receiver. We rarely ever see timing plays, yet we have AJ and Eric Moulds out there.

He is not a whiner, I will hand him that. IF he's here next year, I think we're entirely in the right to expect dramatic improvement in his play.
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Old 12-28-2006   #6
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

I feel like Kubiak could have been the right guy to fix DC's problems.
...........BUT..............
I think after 4 (previous) years of being both pummelled by other team's defenses and being coddled by Capers, Palmer and Pendry it may be too late for Kubiak to correct the problems (at least here in Houston). If DC gets a fresh start with another team and some really good coaching he may be a tad over average.
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Old 12-28-2006   #7
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

How about hypnosis to forget all those sacks?
In all seriousness, what happened to the DC that was calling the plays in the first half of the AZ game last year?
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Old 12-28-2006   #8
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

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Originally Posted by texan767 View Post
How about hypnosis to forget all those sacks?
In all seriousness, what happened to the DC that was calling the plays in the first half of the AZ game last year?
You can probably find bits and pieces of him(mentally) scattered across our Nations NFL football fields.
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Old 12-28-2006   #9
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think Kubiak has done a great job keeping David's eyes downfield
Has this really been fixed? I got my DVR late in the season so I was not able to go back a review the games early in the season. However, the recent ones that I have seen he still stares them down. During training camp, I heard an interview with DC on 610. He said Kubes was having him work on keeping his eyes fixed on the goal post. Then using more eye movement or peripheral vision to view the field. This is something that was not even taught by the Dom Crew. Maybe I was just hoping for more of a noticable difference. I understand that staring a receiver down in a three step drop is inevitible. But I still see it in his 5 step drops. In seven step drops he just has to look for a place to run when his back foot plants.

My number one complaint about David is him not being able to anticipate when a receiver is going to be open. How many time have you seen the ball get to the receiver right as he make his cut. David usually gets rid of the ball after the receiver has finished his route and has already squared his number to him. This gives the defender time to break back on the play and either bat the ball down or intercept it.

The only time David throws the ball to a spot is on the GO routes to AJ or the quick slants. Even some of those throws have been behind the receiver and nearly picked off. This has to do with more of you placement problem.

2. Pocket Presense. I know David has be knocked silly for the last five years. However, he never just slides to avoid the rush. He either gets sacked or runs for dear life. I know the OLine has a lot to to with this. But if I were Kubes I would make DC watch pocket film on Tom Brady. I think he is the best at doing this. The only memorable slide step that come to mind was a sidleine route to AJ I believe it was against the Giants. I believe the presure was coming from the right side. He stepped up and slid slightly to his right into a empty spot and got something on the pass to AJ.

Other than the three problems you listed, those would be on my to fix list if I was Kubes.

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Old 12-28-2006   #10
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

Okay where are the things that put him in the class of the elites?

If this is what this thread was created for...Point Well Taken!!!!
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Old 12-28-2006   #11
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

250 sacks in his first five seasons have conditioned Carr to make decisions that are often detrimental to being a good QB. I honestly don't know if this kind of conditioning can truly be reversed 100%. The simple fact remains that he has to be one of the most sacked QBs in any first five year period, and only time will tell if Kubiak can turn him into a consistent QB.

The game against the Colts is a showcase example of the kind of offense we'll have with Carr as our QB. Mistake-free game, putting the ball with our running game at twice the amount we passed it. This is what we can look like down the road, winning with ball control offense and a stout defense (to be continued being built).

Carr has reduced the number of self-induced sacks this year, which is a direct result of Kubiak's guidance. He still seems shaky on reading defenses, and I think his drop back - 5 or 7 step - still needs a lot more work. He puts himself so far back that stepping up into the pocket becomes much tougher, which is usually a bread and butter move for most NFL QBs. His pocket presence is getting a little better, but this goes back to the conditioning I mentioned above, and might not vastly improve over time.

The two things that bother me the most at games is Carr doesn't seem to make all his progressions, and he under throws receivers. So many times you see our WRs have to turn to catch balls thrown behind them, and it would be nice to see him consistently lead receivers with the ball put in front so they don't have to break their stride to catch it. This is where a lot of big plays get left on the field, IMO. And we tend to see a lot of open receivers that never get looked at, due to lack of time or lack of vision.
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Old 12-28-2006   #12
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm12 View Post
Has this really been fixed? I got my DVR late in the season so I was not able to go back a review the games early in the season. However, the recent ones that I have seen he still stares them down. During training camp, I heard an interview with DC on 610. He said Kubes was having him work on keeping his eyes fixed on the goal post. Then using more eye movement or peripheral vision to view the field. This is something that was not even taught by the Dom Crew. Maybe I was just hoping for more of a noticable difference. I understand that staring a receiver down in a three step drop is inevitible. But I still see it in his 5 step drops. In seven step drops he just has to look for a place to run when his back foot plants.

J
When I say Kubes has done a great job keeping his eyes downfield, I mean he isn't seeing the rush..... he's looking downfield.

Now on the three step drops..... I was watching a another QB, and they showed how he would take a three step drop. With his first step, his head was turned, looking to his left.. when the second step hit, his head was pointed straight down field, third step hit, he was looking to the right.

When he started back up, he planted his front foot in the direction the ball was going, and there it went.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
Okay where are the things that put him in the class of the elites?

If this is what this thread was created for...Point Well Taken!!!!
No that is not why I started this thread.... but I see your point. I figured the homers would come in and mention the things he does well.....

There's gotta be something for so many fans to be soooo in love with him.
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Old 12-28-2006   #13
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Default Bad experiment...end it...move on

I've said it before and I'll say it again--JMO, but Kubiak should never have taken the play of the team down to Carr's level, making the entire team suffer because 1 individual doesn't get 'it'.

...talk about abandoning the 'team' concept! Kubiak and his coaches should have laid out an offensive game plan that gave us the best chance to beat that team that week, regardless of who was playing QB. And, just like with any other position on the team, if that QB can not get the job done--try someone else.

How did Kubiak ever expect Carr to improve when it is obvious that Carr-for whatever reason-could not elevate his play. After 4 yrs in the league, the burden of executing the plays was on Carr!!

For this team to still be wondering if---in his 5th year---Carr can play at an acceptable level is a 'travesty'---an absolute embarrassment to the entire team and the 'fan base.'

JMO, but this has been an 'experiment' gone bad and needs to be ended--wanting Carr to become 'something' he can not become should be over and hopefully-never again- does this team take the play of our 'pro' team to the level of 'elementary' school because one player ---one player---does not get it........:brickwall :brickwall
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Old 12-28-2006   #14
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Default Re: Bad experiment...end it...move on

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again--JMO, but Kubiak should never have taken the play of the team down to Carr's level, making the entire team suffer because 1 individual doesn't get 'it'.

...talk about abandoning the 'team' concept! Kubiak and his coaches should have laid out an offensive game plan that gave us the best chance to beat that team that week, regardless of who was playing QB. And, just like with any other position on the team, if that QB can not get the job done--try someone else.

How did Kubiak ever expect Carr to improve when it is obvious that Carr-for whatever reason-could not elevate his play. After 4 yrs in the league, the burden of executing the plays was on Carr!!

For this team to still be wondering if---in his 5th year---Carr can play at an acceptable level is a 'travesty'---an absolute embarrassment to the entire team and the 'fan base.'

JMO, but this has been an 'experiment' gone bad and needs to be ended--wanting Carr to become 'something' he can not become should be over and hopefully-never again- does this team take the play of our 'pro' team to the level of 'elementary' school because one player ---one player---does not get it........:brickwall :brickwall
I don't think this is what TKyss is looking for in this thread...
I think Carr needs to work on his progressions also and develop more confidence on throwing the timing routes. Part of his problem IMO he throws a .5 second too late when the receiver comes out of his break and that give the db time to close the gap on the receiver. I do however believe this has improved a little bit in the last couple of games with throws to Walters and Johnson on some slants, Anderson over the middle, and the in route by AJ last week and I would look for more plays such as those. Earlier in the season in the TD pass to Moulds where Moulds came across the field and the ball was slightly behind him (luckily it was too!) because it had to be, showed more of Carr being late on his passes and reads.
Carr is great runner and playfaker at the QB position and the Texans can take more advantage of that as the running game improves also. Carr is also a tough SOB and a does have a strong arm despite what some posters think and has a good touch on the short passes. Not being hypocritical in the same post but he does have good touch when he has confidence in time to throw and makes the read correctly.
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Old 12-28-2006   #15
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

Maybe his sponsor needs indisputable evidence .
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Old 12-28-2006   #16
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Default Re: Bad experiment...end it...move on

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth24 View Post
I don't think this is what TKyss is looking for in this thread...
I think Carr needs to work on his progressions also and develop more confidence on throwing the timing routes. Part of his problem IMO he throws a .5 second too late when the receiver comes out of his break and that give the db time to close the gap on the receiver. I do however believe this has improved a little bit in the last couple of games with throws to Walters and Johnson on some slants, Anderson over the middle, and the in route by AJ last week and I would look for more plays such as those. Earlier in the season in the TD pass to Moulds where Moulds came across the field and the ball was slightly behind him (luckily it was too!) because it had to be, showed more of Carr being late on his passes and reads.
Carr is great runner and playfaker at the QB position and the Texans can take more advantage of that as the running game improves also. Carr is also a tough SOB and a does have a strong arm despite what some posters think and has a good touch on the short passes. Not being hypocritical in the same post but he does have good touch when he has confidence in time to throw and makes the read correctly.

...sorry, my point is that I think everything has already been tried in Carr's 5 yrs...time to move on...but I'll give you 3 things that need to be worked on--

1) execute the game plan
2) play within a team concept
3) make things happen

Last edited by tsip; 12-28-2006 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 12-28-2006   #17
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

DC's 3 biggest problems that need improvement:

1. Still holds the ball very low when he drops back, making his throws slower and contributes to alot of his fumbles. He needs to bring that ball up higher when he drops back.

2. Still doesn't seem to have the vision he should have as a QB. Seems like he just can't see the field as well as alot of other QBs and it's not because of his size. He has good size for a QB. I don't know, maybe a new helmet would help a little. One with a smaller facemask instead of the one he has now.

3. Consistency!!! I want to see more of this in every aspect of his game. I know he's going to throw interceptions and fumble, but he needs to keep them to a minimum. He needs to be consistent with his footwork.
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Old 12-28-2006   #18
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

If at this point in his career you are talking about what you have to "fix" in David Carr you clearly are not thinking straight. It's not just the wasted five years, it's the long haul ahead where you fix something this year and something next year and something the year after that.

Some guys come into the league and just "get it" and start producing immediately (you know who); other guys take a couple of years to get there. But almost NOBODY takes five years before producing significantly.

The fact of the matter is that this franchise made a terrible terrible blunder at the beginning and CANNOT ADMIT IT, and that's what's really holding the franchise back. It's awful to watch, but no other explanation fits the facts.

To all those "Give him one more year" people, folks who want to make excuses for him endlessly, please, stop and reflect on half a decade of David Carr at QB.
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Old 12-28-2006   #19
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

no problem
I'm just tired of all the constant either Carr bashing or People who do think Carr is perfect and its everybody else's fault and I think thats why Tkyss started this thread and worded it the way he did.
Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth TKyss.
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Old 12-28-2006   #20
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Default Re: Fixing David.......

1. When he was drafted, there were concerns about his sidearm delivery and release point. I think those were, and continue to be, legitimate concerns. I don't have the stats but deflected passes seem to be a big issue with him

2. He doesn't have any sense as to how to stay in the pocket, and step up to give himself more time. Maybe this isnt his fault. It leads to having to roll him out (along with 1 above) which significantly narrows his range of opportunities to find players open

3. I really admire his toughness in taking sacks but I don't think the team has ever looked to him as a leader. You would think the team would have more respect for him, given how many times he's been pounded and then gets up. And unlike a QB up in Indianapolis, he doesn't publicly call out his offensive line. I'm guessing but when they look at his eyes in the huddle, they don't see what they want to see in terms of having a confident leader to take them down the field

4. I've said this before but I think playing for an expansion team, where the objective was just to be competitive, created a bad mindset for DC, one that I do not believe has changed. And frankly, he's never really had to compete for his job. I was very troubled by his comments this week that he's been out there "having fun", even when the team is getting hammered. That doesn't sound like someone that has a burning desire to win. 34-6 or 40-7 should NOT be fun.


How he is may not all be his fault, but he is what he is. If we keep him, at a minimum he should have to compete for the job, whether with Rosenfels, or someone else. Frankly I think he and the team will be better off if he moves on. Then he can have a good game for someone like Chicago, and we'll certainly hear about it here-
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