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Old 10-08-2004   #1
beerlover
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Default Trade Deadline

Not much ever transpires before the NFL trading deadline, but I thought at least we could discuss the matter. The Texans have trade value expendable players, cap room & moxie to make a move to bolster any percieved weakness. Strong Safety comes to mind (Jacksonville has one they won't be able to keep next year). I've seen alot of poster complaints about the center position, pass rush & tight-end production although Bruenner is providing excellent pass protection & run support.

The other option is a trade for a future high draft pick-

Green Bay needs a back-up QB & they already traded Mckenzie to NO for a 2nd rd pick next year, would they be interested in Ragone for that pick? Farve is one big hit away from time off and the back-up is already broken up probably headed for IR.
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Old 10-08-2004   #2
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you'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick for Ragone
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Old 10-08-2004   #3
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Ragone is probably our #2 QB going into next season. We won't get anything in trade for him. Why would you get rid of him at this point?
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Old 10-08-2004   #4
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I don't think anyone we are willing to part with, will get much useable value in return. And I would hang on to all of are picks, so if there is someone we really like, we can package some of our picks and try to move up.
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Old 10-08-2004   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEEL BLUE TEXANS
you'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick for Ragone
Ragone was the 88th overall selection in 2003, he has NFL experience so he is not a project anymore he is ready (in my opinion) to contribute as a starter. David Ragone is at least as good if not better than AJ Feeley (traded for a high second round pick).


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
Ragone is probably our #2 QB going into next season. We won't get anything in trade for him. Why would you get rid of him at this point?
Same reason we drafted then traded Henson, although I'll grant you with expectations of being Carr's back-up. Don't think they realized how different their ball rotation would be (righty vs. lefty) the only reason really I don't think he fits the back-up role with the Texans because otherwise he has good skills, big, mobile & strong arm.


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Originally Posted by V Man
I don't think anyone we are willing to part with, will get much useable value in return. And I would hang on to all of are picks, so if there is someone we really like, we can package some of our picks and try to move up.

Agreed thats why I stated from the beginning nothing ever usually happens before the trade deadline in the NFL, much different than the NBA or MLB. Could it be that football is the far more difficult team sport? Anyway I would be happy if the Texans once again were able to package picks and try to move up in the draft. However why sit on your laurels if you have cap room and not try to bring in another quality starter to the Texans? I believe there is untapped value already in the NFL just waiting to be plugged into a system like the Texans run that for one reason or another isn't working where there at. This would fall under cap management, the Texans should explore all avenues to improve the team not just the draft alone.

There are only 4 elite teams in the NFL right now the Patriots, Colts, Eagles & Seahawks, look at what they have done to attain their level of excellence they have traded with other teams, Philly for instance is a different team with TO.
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Old 10-08-2004   #6
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Default GB Needs a QB

Quote:
Favre feeling better; Pederson could be done

NFL.com wire reports

GREEN BAY, Wis. (Oct. 6, 2004) -- Brett Favre skipped practice, still feeling the effects of a concussion to go along with a softball-sized bruise on his left leg and a loose left shoulder.

And he's the healthy one.

Backup quarterback Doug Pederson has a cracked bone in his back, a broken rib and a torn muscle in his side, all the result of Keith Washington's wicked sideline hit Oct. 3 in Green Bay's loss to the Giants.

"We're getting old," said Pederson, a year older than Favre, who will turn 35 next week. "We are getting old and we're fragile and that's the thing that even Brett realizes. I mean, he's no spring chicken, either."

AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service
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Old 10-08-2004   #7
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AJ Feeley is not a good comparison to Ragone because Feely had productive NFL starts. This is something that Ragone has not had yet. That said, Ragone isn't going anywhere and we will not be trading picks or players. This is still a developmental year and we are still 'developing' many players as this year wears on.
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Old 10-08-2004   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
AJ Feeley is not a good comparison to Ragone because Feely had productive NFL starts. This is something that Ragone has not had yet. That said, Ragone isn't going anywhere and we will not be trading picks or players. This is still a developmental year and we are still 'developing' many players as this year wears on.
AJ Feeley was a back-up QB behind Harrington @ Oregon, was 3rd back-up at Philly when he had his chance to start due to injurys & once again is the back-up @ Miami. He has always been a back-up his history shows he will always will be a back-up. Drafted in the 5th round 155th pick overall in 2001, traded to Miami for a 2nd round pick.

Ragone was a starter from Louisville now he is ready & with more playing time the NFL complete package. Drafted in the 3rd round (88th) in my opinion will also perform better than Drew Henson that we traded for a 3rd rd pick. GB (just one example) has a good track record for trading to aquire excellent QB's & Dave Ragone is big and incredibly strong one like a Farve

That being said, its just one example that has less than a 1 % chance of coming true. The Texans know what they're doing I'm not sure if other teams even have the confidence to trade with us

Last edited by beerlover; 10-08-2004 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 10-08-2004   #9
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I know Feely's history. Thanks for the refresher. That doesn't change the fact that when the Dolphins traded for Feely it was based on his NFL production, not his draft status. Ragone doesn't have near the value that Feely had when the trade went down although Miami over paid for him. Right now Ragone is not worth a first day pick, so he is much more vaulable as our number 3.
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Old 10-08-2004   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I know Feely's history. Thanks for the refresher. That doesn't change the fact that when the Dolphins traded for Feely it was based on his NFL production, not his draft status. Ragone doesn't have near the value that Feely had when the trade went down although Miami over paid for him. Right now Ragone is not worth a first day pick, so he is much more vaulable as our number 3.
value would be related to what they could trade for, how can you say more valuable than our #3 when you don't know what you are comparing against
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Old 10-08-2004   #11
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I'm not sure Green Bay would trade for Ragone. They got a QB (JT O'Sullivan) from the Saints and a 2nd Round pick in exchange for McKenzie. They already have young QB in Nall on their roster, and of course Brett. I really don't think you'd get much for Ragone right now from any NFL team unless they were in desperate circumstances. As others have said, Ragone hasn't shown anything in the NFL yet. Feely played well for the Eagles as well as Detmer. The Dolphins were desperate to get a QB with a gun to Miami, and paid too much for him. If they had been more patient they could have made a run at Kerry Collins or Warner or other veteran QBs. Wandstedt liked what he saw in Feeley, and got him. Now he's on their bench and Fiedler is back at the helm of the Dolphins sinking ship. The only way I see Ragone garnering a first day pick would be if a team lost 2 QBs and was down to their 3rd stringer for the rest of the season. If you try and hold a desperate team hostage then they'll resort to signing a no name free agent off the street or deal with another team. Most of the time trades in the NFL work out pretty fair for both teams. There are a few exceptions of course, but thats not the norm. I, for one, wouldn't be interested in trading away Ragone when he'll potentially fill in as a No 2 QB next year behind Carr. BJ Symmons is coming off an injury, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with an inexperienced rookie serving as Carr's backup. I really wouldn't think the Texans would make any moves at the deadline, but I guess you can never really know for sure.
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Old 10-08-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
AJ Feeley is not a good comparison to Ragone because Feely had productive NFL starts ...
I completely agree and therefore I don't believe that Ragone has the current trade value. However, Feeley's production came with the Philadelphia Eagles. Ragone's only opportunity came with the Texans, minus Domanick Davis (1 game) and most of the offensive and defensive lines playing different positions, or out. We will never know how well Ragone would have done with the Eagles. In the future, Ragone may prove to be a productive NFL QB.

It is like comparing Carr's first year playing to Carson Palmer's. Carr had to play every game, on an expansion team ... no line, no running, etc. Palmer got to sit for a year and then inherited a team that was 8-8 the previous year. Different situations.
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Old 10-08-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
value would be related to what they could trade for, how can you say more valuable than our #3 when you don't know what you are comparing against
If you trade him you have Banks and air backing up Carr. You will need another QB and Ragone has been in our system for two straight years. There is no 3rd QB better suited for us than Ragone. That's why I say he is more vaulable to us than some second day pick or some journeyman player he would fetch in return.
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Old 10-08-2004   #14
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What has Ragone done to make anyone think he is ready to start anywhere? I want to see the guy stay @ H town and learn. I for one am hoping Banks agrees to another year at #2. I could be wrong but I don't see Ragone ready as # 2. BJ may beat him out eventually anyway. I also think we should hold draft pick for maneuvering in next draft.
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Old 10-08-2004   #15
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Ragone's been bad pretty much every time he's taken the field. His infamous preseason series of consecutive fumbles (Pittsburgh, right?) was a particularly low moment. Still, he knows our system, and he's fine for a #3 QB for this season. No way he has enough upside or experience for anyone to trade for him.

I truly hope that he improves this year, or that the Texans find another journeyman to back up Carr next year. I have seen nothing from him to make me believe he's the guy you want to be next in line.

As for the Feeley comparison, the Dolphins overpaid for him in dumb desperation, but Vinny's right--they did it BECAUSE Feeley had performed quite well late in a season and kept the Eagles' playoff hopes alive. Ragone, like most rookie or 2nd-year QBs, has no such note on his resume. We may as well keep the guy for this year...
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Old 10-09-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I know Feely's history. Thanks for the refresher. That doesn't change the fact that when the Dolphins traded for Feely it was based on his NFL production, not his draft status. Ragone doesn't have near the value that Feely had when the trade went down although Miami over paid for him. Right now Ragone is not worth a first day pick, so he is much more vaulable as our number 3.
Totally agree with Vinny on this one.
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Old 10-09-2004   #17
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Vinny is the big on this one I guess, I'm not going to fight the whole board on this if you all think that Feeley is worth far more than Ragone so be it. The point was do the Texans make a trade before the deadline? Next question, when is the trade deadline? I still maintain a trade is possible if Casserly feels it would improve the team, not to mention we do have some cap room. Call me but besides the draft & free agency why not explore trades
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Old 10-09-2004   #18
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Football is not a sport where mid season trades happen often because how complex offensives and defensives are to adjust midseason is difficult. For us a team that was not expecting to go to the playoffs, making a trade will be hard. As good as Ragone might be, as strong as his arm maybe, as high as he was drafted, until he gets some starts under his belt he will not be a valuable trade comodity until he produces at the NFL level, until then there are 100 other guys with similar credentials that a team looking for a QB could find easier. BUT.... finding a QB mid season is crazy cause he will never learn a new offense in time.

so the answer to your question is the trade deadline is the end of october, and no we will make no trade and will not look to make a trade unless the deal is just too good to be true and those deals dont happen enough to expect them.
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Old 10-09-2004   #19
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I believe the trade deadline is Week 6, and I don't anticipate the Texans making any moves. We don't have an urgent need to trade for anyone. Teams that have critical needs at a position due to injury would be more likely to make a move before the deadline. We'll be much more likely to engage in trade talks come draft day once teams know where they'll be picking, and have a better idea of what players they want. Miami might look to make a trade before the deadline to pick up another RB, but it depends on what teams are asking for a good RB.
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Old 10-09-2004   #20
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Green Bay has a need for a QB, I'll accept Ragone lacks NFL experience, but he does possess all the tools, either way I'm fine with it , just an

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/oct04/265270.asp
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