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Old 12-25-2006   #1
htownfoozball
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Default DB 1st round

We could really use an upgrade at both CB and FS. Who has been worse this year though? Faggins or Brown? And which DB will help us out the most?

Only CB's who I think we should be looking at in the 1st round
Hall
Revis

Hall reminds me a little of Dunta. May not be as quick or as fast, but neither are pure cover guys but both can do a little bit of everything against the pass and the run.

Revis is a bigger corner that could match up with taller receivers so Dunta won't be so overmatched. Higher ceiling than Hall because he's bigger and faster, but may not be as polished as Hall because of his lack of experience.

Only Free Safeties we should be looking at in the 1st round
Landry
Nelson

Landry is a very good all around safety. Kinda like Hall in that he does everything well, but not one thing great that makes him stand out above the rest.

Nelson is not as polished as Landry in all phases, but one thing that he is better than Landry in is his cover skills. A real ballhawk who can go after the ball. May not be a big factor in the running game though. Plays a little reckless at times which may lead to giving up the big play and future durability issues due to his small frame.

I like both safeties better than the corners, but others may disagree. So the question is, do we play it safe, and take Landry, or look for the big playmaker in Nelson? My opinion? Take Landry and don't worry. Also being from Louisiana should help our fanbase, especially after whiffing on VY and Bush.
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Old 12-25-2006   #2
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Default Re: DB 1st round

say we do take landry or nelson with our 1st. Out of Leon Hall, Darell REvis, antoine cason, marcus mccauley, damien hughes...any other cb's yall can think of that are "1st guys"? Do you see any of them falling to us in the 2nd round? I have seen a few mocks with mccauley falling and one with damion hughes. who could potentially fall to us? if we do pick landry/nelson...that'd be great if a cb fell to us that ended up being this years demeco ryans..

i am being too redundant.
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Old 12-25-2006   #3
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Default Re: DB 1st round

Quote:
Originally Posted by htownfoozball View Post
Only Free Safeties we should be looking at in the 1st round
Landry
Nelson

Landry is a very good all around safety. Kinda like Hall in that he does everything well, but not one thing great that makes him stand out above the rest.


I like both safeties better than the corners, but others may disagree. So the question is, do we play it safe, and take Landry, or look for the big playmaker in Nelson? My opinion? Take Landry and don't worry. Also being from Louisiana should help our fanbase, especially after whiffing on VY and Bush.

the more videos i watch of landry, the more i want him in deep steel blue. he seems to be able to keep hold his own deep, and next play, blitz the qb (like kubes has been doing 3-4 times a game w/ earl). landry and earl could be quite a nasty duo.
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Old 12-25-2006   #4
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Default Re: DB 1st round

Hughes doesnt have the speed or the skills to be a cover guy. He's very good in zone, but not as a cover guy. he's gonna run in the mid 4.5's and his stock will drop to the mid 2nd.

mccauley is athletic as they come, but he doesnt have the instincts to play. He had a terrible season and was burnt a few times.

cason is good, but not top of the 1st round good. he's unpolished and didnt have a great season.

one CB i'm high on is Aaron Ross. i wouldnt mind taking him in the 2nd round. a big hitter and plays the run and the pass well.
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Old 12-25-2006   #5
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Default Re: DB 1st round

Quote:
Originally Posted by htownfoozball View Post
Hughes doesnt have the speed or the skills to be a cover guy. He's very good in zone, but not as a cover guy. he's gonna run in the mid 4.5's and his stock will drop to the mid 2nd.

mccauley is athletic as they come, but he doesnt have the instincts to play. He had a terrible season and was burnt a few times.

cason is good, but not top of the 1st round good. he's unpolished and didnt have a great season.

one CB i'm high on is Aaron Ross. i wouldnt mind taking him in the 2nd round. a big hitter and plays the run and the pass well.
McCauley did have a piss poor year when you watched him, but scouts still seem to believe he has NFL CB written on him. I'm holding out judgement until I review a lot of tape. Last year they threw at Richard Marshell who went 2nd round and avoided McCauley. He will have a great combine though.

Cason and Revis are the only 2 CB's from the draft I would spend a high pick on. Hall is not that close to Daunta. Daunta is really thin and throws his body around willingly in run support. He is a vocal leader and I see none of that from Hall. He isn't that fast, and he doesn't have great hips. He will be a solid CB, but I wouldn't spend a top 20 on him, but that may just be me.

Hughes doesn't seem to have the top end speed like you suggested, but he has consistantly made plays for 2 years in a very pass happy conference. His instincts are beyond anyone's in this draft. He closes quickly and is one of the few draft eligable CB's who is able to turn and run and then turn his head and actually find the ball before the WR catches it. He is the best CB when the ball is in the air in the draft, bar none.

I was a big Ross supporter early in the year. After watching his game more closely, I am not a big supporter at all. He does have good speed, but his ability to parlay them onto the field is not there. He gets shoved around easily and doesn't even seem to want to make a play until after the ball is caught. He is extremely overhyped and not worth a 2nd.

Nelson is a big play guy who can support the run extremely well. I think he is much closer to Daunta's ability than Hall. Nelson will take his wirey frame and lay your arse out over the middle. There was a clip floating around where the WR dove to the ground, missing the ball, in order to not be laid out by Nelson. He is even better however, in coverage. He is the top FS in the draft and should go ahead of Landry IMO.
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Old 12-25-2006   #6
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Default Re: DB 1st round

Im not a big fan of Hall. After watching the OSU vs Mich. game, Hall looked horrible. i havent seen any of his other games, but the Ball St and Vanderbilt games in which Mich. looked bad.
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Old 12-25-2006   #7
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Default Re: DB 1st round

CB or FS in the 1st?

CB hands down. I don't deny that our FS play is probably more substandard than our #2 CB play, but three points to make there:

1) CB is a more premium position. All else being equal, a CB will get the nod before a S for all teams. This makes them harder to get through any method but drafting them. It also means FS tends to be drafted lower, making it more likely a "starter-caliber" talent will be around in the 3rd-4th round. Look at Ko Simpson and Pat Watkins going last year in the 4th and 5th.

2) The CB class is not strong this year. After the first five to six guys, there's not really anyone who will perform better than Faggins over the next two years. Conversely, the FS class is kick-butt this year. Consider: LaRon Landry, Eric Waddle, Michael Griffin, Tom Zbikowski, Brandon Meriweather, Aaron Rouse ... with so many 1st round talents on the board at the position, there might well be a 1st round talent available in the 3rd.

3) Any rookie with good coverage skills can at least replace CCBrown's coverage production. Sure, he'll make a lot of mistakes on fakeouts and stuff but, well ... so does CC Brown. On the other hand, it'd take a strong rookie performance to equal Faggins output - he doesn't make a lot of mistakes, he just doesn't have the physical stuff to cover the Harrisons and Evans' - not many do, which is exactly why a premier CB is vital.
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Old 12-25-2006   #8
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Default Re: DB 1st round

if there is a CB thats rated as the bpa when the Texans select then a CB would be but as of right now that would be a reach & therefore not taking bpa
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Old 12-25-2006   #9
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Default Re: DB 1st round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarg01 View Post


1) CB is a more premium position. All else being equal, a CB will get the nod before a S for all teams. This makes them harder to get through any method but drafting them. It also means FS tends to be drafted lower, making it more likely a "starter-caliber" talent will be around in the 3rd-4th round. Look at Ko Simpson and Pat Watkins going last year in the 4th and 5th.

Signed,
Sean Taylor


2) The CB class is not strong this year. After the first five to six guys, there's not really anyone who will perform better than Faggins over the next two years. Conversely, the FS class is kick-butt this year. Consider: LaRon Landry, Eric Waddle, Michael Griffin, Tom Zbikowski, Brandon Meriweather, Aaron Rouse ... with so many 1st round talents on the board at the position, there might well be a 1st round talent available in the 3rd. This CB class is one of the strongest in recent memory. Revis, Cason, Hall, McCauley, Hughes, Ross, Brown, Irons. This is an extremely strong class for CB's, especially 1st round. The FS class on the other hand is extremely weak in terms of talent. Landry, Nelson, and Merriwether round out the FS's worth drafting first day. The other guys you listed are all SS's and can do no better than Earl at this point. Weddel is the only canidate you listed that MAY be able to play FS, but that is a stretch.

3) Any rookie with good coverage skills can at least replace CCBrown's coverage production. Sure, he'll make a lot of mistakes on fakeouts and stuff but, well ... so does CC Brown. On the other hand, it'd take a strong rookie performance to equal Faggins output - he doesn't make a lot of mistakes, he just doesn't have the physical stuff to cover the Harrisons and Evans' - not many do, which is exactly why a premier CB is vital.

Faggins is trash, and I have said that for years. I would love to see him on the colts any other division team. However, the reasons you listed for drafting CB over FS in THIS draft prove indeed to be faulty. CB is much deeper and more talented at the top than the 2 FS's worth drafting early.

comments on bolded red.
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Old 12-25-2006   #10
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Default Re: DB 1st round

i really dont think the CB class is all that strong. deep, yes, but the talent level is not all that great. landry and nelson are both better than the top rated CB's as far as talent goes. landry and nelson are pretty much sure things, while all the CB's come with questions.
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Old 12-25-2006   #11
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Default Re: DB 1st round

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Originally Posted by htownfoozball View Post
i really dont think the CB class is all that strong. deep, yes, but the talent level is not all that great. landry and nelson are both better than the top rated CB's as far as talent goes. landry and nelson are pretty much sure things, while all the CB's come with questions.
I wouldn't call any prospect a sure thing, especially putting them into our losing enviornment. However, I feel that Revis and Cason offer just as much talent as Nelson/Landry, but then you get to guys like Hall, Hughes, McCauley, Irons...and at FS you get to guys like Aaron Rouse or Eric Weddle.

Nelson has plenty of questions, like where the heck was he before this year. Landy has been consistent, but so has Hughes and Hall. The argument can be made for either side at this point, but we fans will have to wait until after FA to see which side proves to be a more pressing issue as we enter next year.
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Old 12-25-2006   #12
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Default Re: DB 1st round

the big bowl games will have a lot to say about that, who, what & where

the only thing I would ask the posters here to remember is the game tape & not get over concerned with combine numbers, pro days or private workouts other than if V is interested in Y try & forget the X factor
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Old 12-25-2006   #13
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Default Re: DB 1st round

You will know more about CBs after the Combine. Many of today's top 10 could drop at least a round if they turn in 4.5+ 40. Projected 2nd and 3rd Rd CBs could move up if they run a 4.4 or less.
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Old 12-26-2006   #14
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Default Re: DB 1st round

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Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
I wouldn't call any prospect a sure thing, especially putting them into our losing enviornment. However, I feel that Revis and Cason offer just as much talent as Nelson/Landry, but then you get to guys like Hall, Hughes, McCauley, Irons...and at FS you get to guys like Aaron Rouse or Eric Weddle.

Nelson has plenty of questions, like where the heck was he before this year. Landy has been consistent, but so has Hughes and Hall. The argument can be made for either side at this point, but we fans will have to wait until after FA to see which side proves to be a more pressing issue as we enter next year.
yea i kinda worded that badly. nelson was at a juco before because he couldnt attend florida because he failed to qualify out of highschool academically. hughes has been very good, but we need a guy that can cover man to man and most people feel that he is limited to the defensive schemes that he will fit into. i like hall, just not top 10. cason is good, he might have the highest ceiling of all the corners, but he's still raw and undersized, and the last thing we need is another undersized corner that we have to wait on to develop. landry and nelson are the most ready to play now, and if we follow our draft philosophy of last year, landry is the guy.
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Old 12-26-2006   #15
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Default Re: DB 1st round

Some of you guys are a little young to remember how big a difference Ronnie Lott made to the 49ers and Raiders. Safeties like that have been making the CBs and LBs look better for years.

In the games I watched Landry play he reminded of a Ronnie Lott type player.

If the trend hold true and we end up with the 6-8th pick, I can see Branch maybe still there, next Landry, then Posluszny, are my guys.

Any way you slice it, we get a stud.

I am not discounting CB, I am just waiting until we have the 40 times to start ranking them.
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Old 12-26-2006   #16
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Default Re: DB 1st round

Round 1 = Laron Landry
Round 2 = Antoine Cason
Round 3 = Kyle Shotwell

I don't think I have ever been this on this early
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Old 12-26-2006   #17
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Default Re: DB 1st round

I suspect that CB will be filled via FA, so if we are picking in the 6-9 range, Landy should be a solid pick in that range.
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Old 12-26-2006   #18
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Default Re: DB 1st round

We are likely in a position to draft the best CB in this draft class....that's what I'd like to see us do. If these guys are serious about building a strong defensive unit then Faggins must be moved back to nickel back and we need a cb1 and put Dunta back at cb2
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Old 12-26-2006   #19
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Default Re: DB 1st round

Quote:
Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
Some of you guys are a little young to remember how big a difference Ronnie Lott made to the 49ers and Raiders. Safeties like that have been making the CBs and LBs look better for years.

In the games I watched Landry play he reminded of a Ronnie Lott type player.

If the trend hold true and we end up with the 6-8th pick, I can see Branch maybe still there, next Landry, then Posluszny, are my guys.

Any way you slice it, we get a stud.

I am not discounting CB, I am just waiting until we have the 40 times to start ranking them.
Ronnie Lott was the 9ers starting CB when he was drafted 8th overall. He was second to Lawrence Taylor in the rookie of the year voting that year as a CB. He didn't move to S for 3-4 years.
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Old 12-26-2006   #20
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Default Re: DB 1st round

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We are likely in a position to draft the best CB in this draft class....that's what I'd like to see us do. If these guys are serious about building a strong defensive unit then Faggins must be moved back to nickel back and we need a cb1 and put Dunta back at cb2
just curious who your front runner for best CB coming out this draft would be? I've currently checked off Leon Hall as the #1 prospect @ his position, mostly because he is technically sound with excellent man to man cover skills. although I realize there are probably several bigger, more physical & faster corners out there....
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