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Old 02-08-2007   #41
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
Garcia is way better, but Rosenfels is/will be better than Carr
Hmmm i dunno how you get that. Sure he hasnt been given the opportunity to start and prove he may be better than Carr, but you cant just assume he will be better, plus there is no evidence to support that. ^^^^ As most agree.
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Old 02-08-2007   #42
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

Plummer probably would be an upgrade from Rosenfels or Carr in the short term.

However, the price tage of Plummer, taking into consideration Carr's dead money, if any, makes the price of ownership impractacle.

A very good example similar to this situation is Reggie Bush, any team in the league would want Reggie Bush on their roster. However, paying $50+ million for his services just doesn't make sense.

Same here with Carr and/or bringing in a high priced vet. The numbers don't work from a finanical perspective and cap management.

Probably the best route is to give Rosenfels the shot to start if Kubiak likes what he has seen so far and bring in a rookie or some cheap guy with talent to groom as backup and/or competition.

Besides, if Kubiak is such a great QB coach and an offensive mind, we should be able to do get by with Rosenfels for next season and still improve as a team.

The goal next season is to get to 10 wins but not mortgage the team's future in doing so. That is why Plummer is not a good idea! He is a short-term fix but causing problems in the long-term.
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Old 02-08-2007   #43
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
Garcia is way better, but Rosenfels is/will be better than Carr
If Sage was better than Carr then he would be on the field. That's a fact.

Kubiak wouldn't keep playing Carr if Sage was killin it on the practice field.

There is no logical arguement that you can make to help prove that Sage is better.

He has been in the league one year longer than Carr, but Carr has wayyy more experience. Sage has only played in 17 games in his career. Carr has started 75.

There are no stats that prove that Sage is better.

Could he possibly be better? Of course. But what do you know about him that makes you so sure that he is better than Carr?
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Old 02-08-2007   #44
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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If Sage was better than Carr then he would be on the field. That's a fact.

Kubiak wouldn't keep playing Carr if Sage was killin it on the practice field.
This gets back to something I've said before and that makes a lot of sense to me. Because of all the damage that he's taken, I think Carr is the kind of player that looks GREAT in practice and then falls apart in the games. When he knows he's not going to take the shot, his mechanics are good and he makes the right reads and can make all the throws. But you get him in a situation where he thinks he's going to start taking shots, and everything goes to hell.

Carr probably looks like the next coming of John Elway in practice but come Sunday, he looks like an inexperienced backup.

Without the injury, I think Sage would have been starting the last few games this past season.
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Old 02-08-2007   #45
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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If Sage was better than Carr then he would be on the field. That's a fact.

Kubiak wouldn't keep playing Carr if Sage was killin it on the practice field.

There is no logical arguement that you can make to help prove that Sage is better.

He has been in the league one year longer than Carr, but Carr has wayyy more experience. Sage has only played in 17 games in his career. Carr has started 75.

There are no stats that prove that Sage is better.

Could he possibly be better? Of course. But what do you know about him that makes you so sure that he is better than Carr?
David's fumbles/Ints.....
Philly 0 fumbles 0 Ints
Indy 3 fumbles(2 lost)/ 0 Ints
Was 3 fumbles(2 lost)/ 1 Int
Mia 2 fumbles(1 lost)/ 1 Int
Dallas 0 fumbles/ 2 Ints
Jax 0 fumbles/0 Ints
Ten 2 fumbles(2 lost)/1 Int
NYG 0 fumbles/0 Int
Jax 0 fumbles/ 0 Int
Buf 1 fumble/1 Int
NYJ 0 fumbles/1 Int
Oak 3 fumbles(2 lost)/ 0 Int
Ten 0 fumbles/ 0 Int
NE 1 fumble(1 lost)/4 Int
Indy 0 fumble/0 Int
Clev 1 fumble(1 lost)/1 Int



How bad does it have to get before it's worth a shot to try the other guy??

I guarantee you the guy's hands were tied. Nobody in their right mind would have kept sending him out there time after time, after time....... after time.
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Old 02-08-2007   #46
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan View Post
Hmmm i dunno how you get that. Sure he hasnt been given the opportunity to start and prove he may be better than Carr, but you cant just assume he will be better, plus there is no evidence to support that. ^^^^ As most agree.

...assume/evidence/most agree??...sounds good to me--why don't you get us started?
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Old 02-08-2007   #47
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

I think Carr will be gone by the end of the month and Plummer will come in and Sage will remain a back-up like he was at Miami.When they repeat their 6-10 season or worst people will question why did they release David Carr?
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Old 02-09-2007   #48
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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I think Carr will be gone by the end of the month and Plummer will come in and Sage will remain a back-up like he was at Miami.When they repeat their 6-10 season or worst people will question why did they release David Carr?
I think you are very likely right. And nobody here will be happy with Plummer. It will be like Denver all over again for him. However, I also think that the climate in Houston may be too hostile for Carr and He probably needs to go somewhere else to get a fresh start. My only regret is that we never got a chance to see what he could do behind a decent o-line. Maybe the next Houston QB will get one. If not, people will be lamenting DC's departure for sure.

Last edited by GNTLEWOLF; 02-09-2007 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 02-09-2007   #49
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

I wonder, if Carr does go somewheres else and he does fantastic, will ppl admit maybe it wasn't Carr that was the problem, but our o-line?? Personally i think its the total package...Not just Carr...But since he's already lost his confidence to the max, he would have a better chance elsewhere to redeem himself then if he stayed here.
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Old 02-09-2007   #50
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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David's fumbles/Ints.....
Philly 0 fumbles 0 Ints
Indy 3 fumbles(2 lost)/ 0 Ints
Was 3 fumbles(2 lost)/ 1 Int
Mia 2 fumbles(1 lost)/ 1 Int
Dallas 0 fumbles/ 2 Ints
Jax 0 fumbles/0 Ints
Ten 2 fumbles(2 lost)/1 Int
NYG 0 fumbles/0 Int
Jax 0 fumbles/ 0 Int
Buf 1 fumble/1 Int
NYJ 0 fumbles/1 Int
Oak 3 fumbles(2 lost)/ 0 Int
Ten 0 fumbles/ 0 Int
NE 1 fumble(1 lost)/4 Int
Indy 0 fumble/0 Int
Clev 1 fumble(1 lost)/1 Int



How bad does it have to get before it's worth a shot to try the other guy??

I guarantee you the guy's hands were tied. Nobody in their right mind would have kept sending him out there time after time, after time....... after time.
Got a link for those stats?

I'm not getting the same results at all. For example, the Cleveland game, I'm not seeing where we lost a fumble. IIRC, it occured on the handoff to Chris Taylor but Taylor recovered it. David Carr was charged with the fumble but it was not a lost fumble.

I'm seeing the same for the NE game - no lost fumbles.. just the 4 INT's..

Last edited by Arky; 02-09-2007 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 02-09-2007   #51
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Got a link for those stats?

I'm not getting the same results at all. For example, the Cleveland game, I'm not seeing where we lost a fumble. IIRC, it occured on the handoff to Chris Taylor but Taylor recovered it. David Carr was charged with the fumble but it was not a lost fumble.

I'm seeing the same for the NE game - no lost fumbles.. just the 4 INT's..
Actually, here's what I see

Team Fumbles/Lost - Interceptions
Eagles 0/0 - 0
Colts 3/1 - 0
Skins 3/1 - 1
Fins 1/1 - 1
Cowboys 0/0 - 2
Jags 0/0 - 0
Titans 2/2 - 1
Giants 0/0 - 0
Jags 0/0 - 0
Bills 1/0 - 1
Jets 0/0 - 1
Raiders 3/2 - 0
Titans 0/0 - 0
Pats 1/0 - 4
Colts 0/0 - 0
Browns 1/0 - 1
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Old 02-09-2007   #52
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Actually, here's what I see

Team Fumbles/Lost - Interceptions
Eagles 0/0 - 0
Colts 3/1 - 0
Skins 3/1 - 1
Fins 1/1 - 1
Cowboys 0/0 - 2
Jags 0/0 - 0
Titans 2/2 - 1
Giants 0/0 - 0
Jags 0/0 - 0
Bills 1/0 - 1
Jets 0/0 - 1
Raiders 3/2 - 0
Titans 0/0 - 0
Pats 1/0 - 4
Colts 0/0 - 0
Browns 1/0 - 1
Where's your link?

That's a big difference in numbers (4 lost fumbles).
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Old 02-09-2007   #53
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Actually, here's what I see

Team Fumbles/Lost - Interceptions
Eagles 0/0 - 0
Colts 3/1 - 0
Skins 3/1 - 1
Fins 1/1 - 1
Cowboys 0/0 - 2
Jags 0/0 - 0
Titans 2/2 - 1
Giants 0/0 - 0
Jags 0/0 - 0
Bills 1/0 - 1
Jets 0/0 - 1
Raiders 3/2 - 0
Titans 0/0 - 0
Pats 1/0 - 4
Colts 0/0 - 0
Browns 1/0 - 1
these don't match up to the NFL stats at NFL.com

or let me look again:
Carr was charged with 16 fumbles 7 lost 5 own recovered

ugh! it's like High School

Carson Palmer 15 fumbles 7 lost
Jon Kitna 11 and 9
for comparison
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Last edited by TwinSisters; 02-09-2007 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 02-09-2007   #54
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Originally Posted by TwinSisters View Post
these don't match up to the NFL stats at NFL.com

or let me look again:
Carr was charged with 16 fumbles 7 lost 5 own recovered

ugh! it's like High School

Carson Palmer 15 fumbles 7 lost
Jon Kitna 11 and 9
for comparison
Carr's fumbles are not way higher than that of any other QB's last year.

The problem is that his fumbles came in bunches. He would go two games without one & then bust out 3 in one quarter of the next game.
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Old 02-09-2007   #55
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Carr's fumbles are not way higher than that of any other QB's last year.

The problem is that his fumbles came in bunches. He would go two games without one & then bust out 3 in one quarter of the next game.
yeah, I agree. 10 fumbles in a season looks like the avg or bar. Most of the elite QBs have single digit fumbles.

BUT there are factors that you cannot always account for... like snap calls, new centers, injuries to hand, weather, dumb RBs, and so forth.

The record for fumbles in a season is 23.
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Old 02-09-2007   #56
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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yeah, I agree. 10 fumbles in a season looks like the avg or bar. Most of the elite QBs have single digit fumbles.

BUT there are factors that you cannot always account for... like snap calls, new centers, injuries to hand, weather, dumb RBs, and so forth.

The record for fumbles in a season is 23.
Ya, not sure if this link will work...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5887

I just heard Rich Lord on 610SR exclaim for about the 19th time "66 fumbles in 76 games!" (career fumbles)

What he doesn't tell you is that only 21 were actually turnovers (Fumbles Lost). Over 5 years, that's roughly 4/year or 1 every 4 games. 1 Turnover every 4 games due to a bad exchange from center, bad handoff, QB getting hit and/or stripped, QB coughing up the ball.... That's really not that bad considering some QB's throw 20+ INT's every year... DC is really not one of those high INT's guys...

Fumbles are not good but Fumbles Lost (turnovers) are the real killer....
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Old 02-09-2007   #57
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Where's your link?

That's a big difference in numbers (4 lost fumbles).
I went through the games one by one on NFL.com.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/HOU/2006/regular
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Old 02-09-2007   #58
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Ya, not sure if this link will work...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5887

I just heard Rich Lord on 610SR exclaim for about the 19th time "66 fumbles in 76 games!" (career fumbles)

What he doesn't tell you is that only 21 were actually turnovers (Fumbles Lost). Over 5 years, that's roughly 4/year or 1 every 4 games. 1 Turnover every 4 games due to a bad exchange from center, bad handoff, QB getting hit and/or stripped, QB coughing up the ball.... That's really not that bad considering some QB's throw 20+ INT's every year... DC is really not one of those high INT's guys...

Fumbles are not good but Fumbles Lost (turnovers) are the real killer....
I'll admit that my method of counting the fumbles......... fumbles loss was not very accurate(after reading some of these posts, and looking over the issue again on NFL.com.)....

However, "That's really not that bad??"

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Old 02-09-2007   #59
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Ya, not sure if this link will work...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5887

I just heard Rich Lord on 610SR exclaim for about the 19th time "66 fumbles in 76 games!" (career fumbles)

What he doesn't tell you is that only 21 were actually turnovers (Fumbles Lost). Over 5 years, that's roughly 4/year or 1 every 4 games. 1 Turnover every 4 games due to a bad exchange from center, bad handoff, QB getting hit and/or stripped, QB coughing up the ball.... That's really not that bad considering some QB's throw 20+ INT's every year... DC is really not one of those high INT's guys...

Fumbles are not good but Fumbles Lost (turnovers) are the real killer....
Rich Lord rarely knows what he's talking about.
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Old 02-09-2007   #60
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Default Re: Sage Rosenfels a candidate for Starting QB Job in 2007

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Rich Lord rarely knows what he's talking about.
even if they aren't loss, they are still wasted plays, so they still need to be accounted for.
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