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Old 12-13-2006   #1
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Exclamation La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

To defend David Carr, I recall the Texans/Cardinals game from 2005. In that game David Carr was allowed to make all of the Offensive playcalls in the First Half. The result was 24 points. Highly productive for a team that had been averaging 16 points for a game. Yes I know this was against the lowly Cardinals, but wait there's more. In the Second Half, Offensive Coordinator Joe Pendry resumed his role of making all of the Offensive playcalls. The result 6 points. The most amazing thing about this story is that Pendry continued to make almost all of the playcalls for the remainder of that season. Perhaps ego got in the way, as the coaches did not let Carr call many of the plays in the games that followed, and that could have cost them many victories and ultimately their jobs. I believe that this evidence suggests that when given a chance to call the plays David Carr can succeed. I have read that Kubiak limits the amount of freedom David Carr is allowed in calling audibles, and this could be to the detriment of the team. I am not suggesting that David Carr doesn't make mistakes, on the contrary he does make mistakes and needs to improve in many facets of the game. What I am saying is that David Carr can be a successful NFL QB if given the chance to succeed, and perhaps the playcalling is playing a big role in how poorly this Offense is performing. If David Carr was as bad as some people on this message board would have us believe those numbers in that game should have been reversed, with David Carr's playcalling resulting in only 6 points, but that isn't how it happened because David Carr is a very capable NFL QB that unfortunately has been held back throughout his almost 5 years in the league by a combination of bad playcalling, poor pass protection, and early on a lack of talented recievers. He now has talented recievers, but he still has poor pass protection and questionable, albeit better than the past, playcalling. Hopefully, next year if David Carr returns as the Texans's starting QB then they will give him better pass protection and the playcalling will improve as well.
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Old 12-14-2006   #2
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

That right there was a major factor for me not being too upset about going after Vince Young. I felt that Kubiak may have limited his abilities and mold him into a certain type of QB instead of letting him play to his fullest with his style. The Titans found this out early on and are now starting to let VY command the game using his talents. I thought it would have been a waste to pick VY if that was what we were going to do in molding him into Plummer II. Carr I could see in doing that, but no VY.
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Old 12-14-2006   #3
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

I agree with just about everything you have mentioned. With only 3 games left and everyone calling for the "head of the monster-carr", maybe they should cut the reigns and either give DC the opportunity to either show his stuff or ultimately hang himself. It's too bad the coaches didn't do that at the beginning or at the start of the 2nd half of this season.
I think that over-anylizing/coaching (or lack of) has led to lack of, and poor execution and have left DC where he is today. Why not just let him loose and see how he does. I agree that when DC is allowed to make his own calls.....he usually does well.
If DC ends up being shipped out of Houston....it will be a truly unfortunate reality that poor judgement in coaching and overall staff decisions did not allow him to flourish into his full potential in this town. ONE man does not make a team and win games.
A person's talents amount to nothing if he is not allowed the opportunity to utilize and fine tune those talents........at the right times.
If you choose a leader...then allow him to lead.....or at least give him the opportunity to fail.....ON HIS OWN!
David Carr's failures have not been on his own! I hope he can turn this around and be the QB he always had the potential to be. I hate to see another Houston athlete traded....only for us to see him flourish into the full potential he had......FOR THE COMPETITION!
IMO....Texans admin picks the right grapes, makes the wine, but forgets about the rest of the ingredients and the proper timing for that wine to mature.....so we end up with just sour grapes.
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Old 12-14-2006   #4
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

Have you ever thought of using paragraphs? Your thread would be much easier to read. Just a suggestion.
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Old 12-14-2006   #5
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

Nearly every audible was a handoff to the left side where Arizona's defense was very weak. I believe Carr threw for under 100 yards and 0 TD's in that half.

There are no more excuses for Dinkin' Dave. He is done in Houston.
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Old 12-14-2006   #6
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

For the entire Game Carr passed for 150 yards on 22-33 completions....1 interception and a 64 Quaterback rating and 0....I repeat.......0 touchdowns......and didn't have one completion over 20 yards.....

The running backs combined for 3 touchdowns, for about 120 yards....The running game carried us....


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore...34&page=drives

If you're saying Carr has a future in playcalling you just may be onto something.....Still doesn't show that he's a good QB....

Last edited by real; 12-14-2006 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 12-14-2006   #7
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
Nearly every audible was a handoff to the left side where Arizona's defense was very weak. I believe Carr threw for under 100 yards and 0 TD's in that half.

There are no more excuses for Dinkin' Dave. He is done in Houston.
And then there are those who say stats mean nothing..only the W's.

Have you ever said that?

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Old 12-14-2006   #8
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

JMO, but even when he called his own plays, Carr did not have a vertical passing game, and that is what is missing 'big' time from our offense. Calling his own plays is not going to 'suddenly' turn Carr's career around...

On the other hand, however, I don't agree with Kubiak's assertion that we don't throw down the field because we can't protect for a 7 step drop. All we need is one completion out of 3 tries to put us where we need to be, so how does he know our line can't give us just 1 play out of 3? Too, many QBs around the league have a vertical game w/o 7 steps...

I'm tired of hearing our HC's (first Capers, now Kubiak) say we can't/don't do this or that because we don't have...try it, what do you have to lose? ...the game, no, were losing those anyway.

Our team takes the field with a game plan that restricts what they will do on the field, based upon negative results that Kubiak thinks will happen??...BSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

When will this team ever be 'coached to win?????'....gezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall :brickwall
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Old 12-14-2006   #9
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

I think we should just go for it and do a 7 step drop sometimes. I know Carr will have to get used to running for his life, but he will get that occasional long-ball too--I think--sort of.
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Old 12-14-2006   #10
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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Originally Posted by cuppacoffee View Post
And then there are those who say stats mean nothing..only the W's.

Have you ever said that?

Wins are all that matter. The 2 halves that all of the Carr apologists point to are against St. Louis and Arizona in 2005. In both he passed for under 100 yards and handed the ball off mostly. The problem is that if we're forced to pass it's game over. Carr is either going to turn the ball over or make a dumb mistake to kill the drive.
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Old 12-14-2006   #11
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

If you're going to mention the Arizona game where he called his own plays for one half, also mention the Rams game where he called his own plays for the first half. He was 27-33 for 293 yards and 3 TDs (1 INT) in the StL game. In the first half, where he called the plays, he passed for 171 yards, 3 TDs, and ran for 38 yards.

So, in the Arizona game, he led an offense that put up 24 points in the first half and the team won the game, though he didn't post impressive individual stats. In the Rams game, he led an offense that posted 21 (or 24?) first-half points, yet the team did not win the game, despite his impressive individual stats. So in his entire career, we have 4 quarters of football in which Carr has called his own plays (that we know). He won one game and lost one game, but he was ahead when he stopped calling plays on both games. Some of you Carr haters should try and be a little more objective sometimes. It would help your cause.

Game log from that StL game .....

1-10-HOU32 (14:53) D.Davis up the middle to HST 36 for 4 yards (T.Faulk, A.Hargrove).
2-6-HOU36 (14:17) D.Davis right guard to HST 35 for -1 yards (D.Coakley, R.Pickett).
3-7-HOU35 (13:37) (Shotgun) D.Carr pass incomplete to J.Gaffney. (QB Hit.)
4-7-HOU35 (13:32) C.Stanley punts 30 yards to SL 35, Center-B.Pittman, downed by HST-R.Walker. (Punt hang time 4.8 seconds.)

Houston Texans at 11:23
1-10-HOU11 (11:23) D.Carr pass incomplete to J.Gaffney (P.Tinoisamoa).
2-10-HOU11 (11:17) D.Davis right guard to HST 15 for 4 yards (D.Lewis, T.Faulk).
3-6-HOU15 (10:37) (Shotgun) D.Carr pass to J.Gaffney to HST 24 for 9 yards (A.Hargrove, B.Chillar). (3 yards after catch.)
1-10-HOU24 (9:55) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson pushed ob at SL 43 for 33 yards (Jerome.Carter). (8 yards after catch.)
1-10-STL43 (9:26) D.Davis up the middle to SL 39 for 4 yards (J.Kennedy).
2-6-STL39 (8:46) D.Davis left guard to SL 26 for 13 yards (M.Furrey, Jerome.Carter).
1-10-STL26 (8:03) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson pushed ob at SL 15 for 11 yards (B.Chillar). (7 yards after catch.)
1-10-STL15 (7:25) J.Wells left guard to SL 5 for 10 yards (M.Furrey).
1-5-STL5 (6:40) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (6 yards after catch.)
K.Brown extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
STL 0 HOU 7, Plays: 9 Yards: 89 Possession: 4:48.

Houston Texans at 06:35
K.Brown kicks 62 yards from HST 30 to SL 8. T.Fair to SL 22 for 14 yards (M.Rivers).

Houston Texans at 02:07
1-10-HOU33 (2:07) D.Davis up the middle to HST 38 for 5 yards (Jerome.Carter).
2-5-HOU38 (1:31) D.Davis up the middle to HST 40 for 2 yards (P.Tinoisamoa).
3-3-HOU40 (:54) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to HST 46 for 6 yards (Jerome.Carter, B.Chillar). (5 yards after catch.)
1-10-HOU46 (:05) PENALTY on HST-A.Johnson, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at HST 46 - No Play.
Second Quarter
Houston Texans continued...
1-15-HOU41 (15:00) D.Davis left guard to HST 41 for no gain (L.Little, R.Pickett).
2-15-HOU41 (14:24) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to HST 47 for 6 yards (B.Chillar, C.Ivy). (4 yards after catch.)
3-9-HOU47 (13:40) (Shotgun) D.Carr up the middle to SL 43 for 10 yards (Jerome.Carter).
1-10-STL43 (12:57) D.Carr right end to SL 31 for 12 yards (R.Bartell).SL-R.Bartell was injured during the play.
1-10-STL31 (12:25) D.Davis right guard to SL 30 for 1 yard (B.Green).
2-9-STL30 (11:47) D.Carr pass incomplete to A.Johnson (M.Furrey).
3-9-STL30 (11:40) (Shotgun) D.Carr pass to D.Davis for 30 yards, TOUCHDOWN. (QB Hit; 14 yards after catch.)
K.Brown extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
STL 0 HOU 14, Plays: 10 Yards: 67 Possession: 5:34.

Houston Texans at 11:33
K.Brown kicks 67 yards from HST 30 to SL 3. T.Fair to SL 24 for 21 yards (R.Walker).

Houston Texans at 10:07
1-10-HOU35 (10:07) D.Carr pass to C.Bradford to HST 44 for 9 yards (R.Bartell). (3 yards after catch.)
2-1-HOU44 (9:28) D.Davis left guard to HST 45 for 1 yard (T.Faulk).
1-10-HOU45 (8:41) D.Carr pass incomplete to A.Johnson (C.Johnson).
2-10-HOU45 (8:35) D.Davis up the middle to HST 45 for no gain (L.Little, J.Kennedy).
3-10-HOU45 (7:56) (Shotgun) D.Carr pass to J.Wells to SL 36 for 19 yards (Jerome.Carter). (17 yards after catch.)
1-10-STL36 (7:05) D.Davis pass incomplete to J.Gaffney (M.Furrey). (Halfback option pass.)
2-10-STL36 (6:58) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson to SL 24 for 12 yards (R.Bartell). (4 yards after catch.)
1-10-STL24 (6:16) D.Davis right guard to SL 22 for 2 yards (T.Faulk, P.Tinoisamoa).
2-8-STL22 (5:35) D.Carr left end ran ob at SL 16 for 6 yards (P.Tinoisamoa).
3-2-STL16 (5:00) D.Carr sacked at SL 21 for -5 yards (R.Pickett).
4-7-STL21 (4:29) K.Brown 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
STL 0 HOU 17, Plays: 11 Yards: 44 Possession: 5:42.

Houston Texans at 04:25
K.Brown kicks 70 yards from HST 30 to end zone, Touchback.

Houston Texans at 00:45
1-10-STL29 (:45) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson pushed ob at SL 24 for 5 yards (C.Johnson). (No yards after catch.)
2-5-STL24 (:39) D.Carr pass to A.Johnson ran ob at SL 8 for 16 yards (C.Johnson). (No yards after catch.)
1-8-STL8 (:34) D.Davis left guard to SL 10 for -2 yards (C.Ivy).
2-10-STL10 (:29) D.Carr pass to C.Bradford for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
K.Brown extra point is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
STL 3 HOU 24, Plays: 4 Yards: 29 Possession: 0:38.

Houston Texans at 00:20
K.Brown kicks 70 yards from HST 30 to end zone, Touchback.
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Old 12-14-2006   #12
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
Wins are all that matter. The 2 halves that all of the Carr apologists point to are against St. Louis and Arizona in 2005. In both he passed for under 100 yards and handed the ball off mostly. The problem is that if we're forced to pass it's game over. Carr is either going to turn the ball over or make a dumb mistake to kill the drive.
This is a completely false statement and this is the second thread in which I've corrected you.
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Old 12-14-2006   #13
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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This is a completely false statement and this is the second thread in which I've corrected you.


Yep, I saw the other post too.
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Old 12-14-2006   #14
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

Just for the sake of completeness, I looked up the game log for the Arizona game as well. In the first half, Carr passed for 93 yards. He ended up with 150 on the day. His interception was thrown in the 2nd half. It certainly wasn't a great game by Carr, but they were ahead when he stopped calling plays and they won the game, which is all that matters, according to the Carr haters (unless it's convenient to argue otherwise, of course). The team ran 21 run plays inthe first half and 20 pass plays, so the statement that Carr mostly handed the ball off is technically correct - by one

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playby...051218_ARI@HOU
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Old 12-14-2006   #15
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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Originally Posted by BattleRedToro View Post
To defend David Carr, I recall the Texans/Cardinals game from 2005.....

I have read that Kubiak limits the amount of freedom David Carr is allowed in calling audibles...

He now has talented recievers, but he still has poor pass protection and questionable, albeit better than the past, playcalling....

Hopefully, next year if David Carr returns as the Texans's starting QB then they will give him better pass protection and the playcalling will improve as well.
Excuses, Excuses, Excuses

We should be tired by now of hearing this. TURN THE PAGE...........



Give me pass protection and playcalling and I'll be good too

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Old 12-14-2006   #16
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Just for the sake of completeness, I looked up the game log for the Arizona game as well. In the first half, Carr passed for 93 yards. He ended up with 150 on the day. His interception was thrown in the 2nd half. It certainly wasn't a great game by Carr, but they were ahead when he stopped calling plays and they won the game, which is all that matters, according to the Carr haters (unless it's convenient to argue otherwise, of course). The team ran 21 run plays inthe first half and 20 pass plays, so the statement that Carr mostly handed the ball off is technically correct - by one

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playby...051218_ARI@HOU
This game was played a year ago, and David now has Kubiak, Sherman, and Moulds and it is still the same old situation. Even Carr's best games are not amazing by NFL standards.

Before the St. Louis game you guys were still talking about the Minnesota game back in 2003.

What is your point, Carr should call his own plays? I though Kubiak was the wizard for this offense and now you seem to imply it should be Carr.

If you remember back in the preseason against Denver, Carr had a chance to step up and call his own play because Kubiak got distracted. It was right before the half on Denver's 20 or so yard line. Carr just stood there and then took a time out because the play clock had already run down because he was waiting on Kubiak.
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Old 12-14-2006   #17
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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This is a completely false statement and this is the second thread in which I've corrected you.
So he's had one good half his entire career. Actually, that game was probably the best of his entire career.... and he still lost.
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Old 12-14-2006   #18
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Just for the sake of completeness, I looked up the game log for the Arizona game as well. In the first half, Carr passed for 93 yards. He ended up with 150 on the day. His interception was thrown in the 2nd half. It certainly wasn't a great game by Carr, but they were ahead when he stopped calling plays and they won the game, which is all that matters, according to the Carr haters (unless it's convenient to argue otherwise, of course). The team ran 21 run plays inthe first half and 20 pass plays, so the statement that Carr mostly handed the ball off is technically correct - by one

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playby...051218_ARI@HOU
I'll bet Dinkin' Davie hopes that you follow him to his next team to apologize and make excuses for his horrible play.
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Old 12-14-2006   #19
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
So he's had one good half his entire career. Actually, that game was probably the best of his entire career.... and he still lost.

Wonger, is this post about Sage or Carr? ^^^^^^^^^
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Old 12-14-2006   #20
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Default Re: La Ultima Defensa de la Carr

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
What is your point, Carr should call his own plays?
My point was only to present information that wasn't stilted. I am fully behind the movement to replace Carr, but in doing so I am capable of looking at both sides of the argument, unlike some posters here.

As for him calling his own plays ... yeah, that would be nice. The last few games, we have nothing to lose, so why not give him the reins a bit? It will either enhance his perceived value on film or it will cement the final decision that he is not salvageable with the coaches. Either way, it provides valuable information to those making decisions.
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