Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2006   #1
gtexan02
Working?
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boston
Age: 30
Posts: 15,603
Rep Power: 57275 gtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default If we only had an OL...

Does anyone else find it a bit disconcerting that we are in year 5 of our marvelous franchise and yet are still lacking a middle of the pack offensive line?

I mean, no matter how many changes we make to this thing, the players go down or fail, and we end up back at square one with a musical chairs shuffle going on and 3 and 5 step drops at the max.

Are we cursed?
__________________
Drinking the kool aid
gtexan02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #2
Bamaborn-Texasbred
All Pro
 
Bamaborn-Texasbred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Galveston, Texas
Age: 44
Posts: 550
Rep Power: 10 Bamaborn-Texasbred is a Pro BowlerBamaborn-Texasbred is a Pro Bowler
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

You could make a football version of The Wizard of Oz.

If I only had an offensive line....

If I only had a quarterback...

If I only had a big play...
__________________
Are you looking forward to baseball season as much as I am?
Bamaborn-Texasbred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #3
Bamaborn-Texasbred
All Pro
 
Bamaborn-Texasbred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Galveston, Texas
Age: 44
Posts: 550
Rep Power: 10 Bamaborn-Texasbred is a Pro BowlerBamaborn-Texasbred is a Pro Bowler
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Hey! I'm mister 600!
__________________
Are you looking forward to baseball season as much as I am?
Bamaborn-Texasbred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #4
HJam72
Hall of Fame
 
HJam72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Over here.
Age: 41
Posts: 11,512
Rep Power: 72199 HJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Yes....and....yes.

I'd like to say that we need to stop bringing in new faces and moving people around to get some cohesiveness, but we haven't had a choice in most cases this year.
__________________

HJam72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #5
Runner
Hubcap Diamond
 
Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,700
Rep Power: 25614 Runner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

I contend that the coaches have done too much tinkering on the o-line. If they bring in players to develop, they should develop them and not throw them to the curb when they exhibit growing pains. Watching what happens to Winston the next couple of seasons will indicate if they will try that approach.
__________________
Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon
Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #6
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

I'm not sure how most of you judge line play, but if you judge it by the amount of sacks allowed we aren't too far off from some teams considered to have "good" Olines and healthy passing games....

Oakland 62
Detroit 49
Cleveland 44
St. Louis 44
Pittsburgh 40
Seattle 39
Buffalo 38
Houston 38
Atlanta 35
Miami 34
Minnesota 33
Cincinnati 30
Kansas City 30
New York 29
Arizona 29
San Francisco 27


I'm not really a stat guy, and I like to actually look and see who's doing what, and IMO considering the fact that we only have one guy who's been starting since the first game, our line hasn't played that bad. IMO, our line isn't as big a problem as some are making it out to be. I'd like to see better line play as well and I think we can do a better job, but I'm just of the opinion that the line is going to be o.k.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #7
Trenches
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 171
Rep Power: 9 Trenches is ridin' the pine
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

hell yes I am.

Casserly said that LT was one of the most important position on the field. they took Boselli to try to get solid right away. after that blew up THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING to address the situation until this last draft. Nothing in FA, no trade and no high pick (other than Wand, who was a project). Seems like they just have NEVER had their priorities straight.

this team is constantly plugging in rookies at important positions and then wonders why they suck. look at how many rookies start at LB for the Patriots. they know they need vets who understand the league at that important position in their D. we, on the other hand, tried to teach college DE's to be 3-4 linebackers and threw them out there while they learned. of course our D would stink.

I want to see the lines solidified, at whatever cost, and then build outward from there. If that means losing AJ, then so be it. His talent is being wasted here and he will probably bolt when his contract is up anyway.
Trenches is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 12-13-2006   #8
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
 
Kaiser Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Straight Outta Austin
Age: 44
Posts: 16,041
Rep Power: 39244 Kaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

If anyone pins this loss on the OLine then they are a fool. They played well in the passing and running game. If Carr can hit Andre and Daniels in stride, not throw two passes beyond the LOS and understand that throwing the ball to the first down marker, rather than before it, is a good thing, we may have something in this rookie, errr, veteran.
__________________
Smell the glove is here
Kaiser Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #9
TexanFanInCC
Hall of Fame
 
TexanFanInCC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond / Corpus Christi
Age: 29
Posts: 1,326
Rep Power: 11 TexanFanInCC is a team player
Send a message via AIM to TexanFanInCC Send a message via Yahoo to TexanFanInCC
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
If anyone pins this loss on the OLine then they are a fool. They played well in the passing and running game. If Carr can hit Andre and Daniels in stride, not throw two passes beyond the LOS and understand that throwing the ball to the first down marker, rather than before it, is a good thing, we may have something in this rookie, errr, veteran.
yeah i agree. i think people blame the o-line bc they still have the vision of carr being the golden-boy. i think playing o-line on the texans is the hardest job ever, considering how much teams blitz us. well does anyone wanna know why teams blitz us alot? its because carr doesnt make the opposing defenses pay the price! carr doesnt make plays. if he was rolling out, throwing deeper passes, then the defense would HAVE to back off the LOS. if carr is throwing dink passes, you cant get the defense to stop stacking the box. someone ought to remind carr that we arent playing arena football. ..and the deep passes that carr actually DOES throw, they havent been good throws. they are either jumpballs to andre that could very easily be caught or picked off....too risky, or balls that just dont make any sense.

its not so much the o-line as it is carr....just my opinion
__________________
wishlist: DT, SS, CB, FS ....see the trend? (recipe for greatness)
TexanFanInCC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #10
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

I can't remember one deep throw that Carr has LEAD a reciever this year...
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #11
Runner
Hubcap Diamond
 
Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,700
Rep Power: 25614 Runner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
If anyone pins this loss on the OLine then they are a fool. They played well in the passing and running game. If Carr can hit Andre and Daniels in stride, not throw two passes beyond the LOS and understand that throwing the ball to the first down marker, rather than before it, is a good thing, we may have something in this rookie, errr, veteran.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexanFanInCC View Post
yeah i agree. i think people blame the o-line bc they still have the vision of carr being the golden-boy. i think playing o-line on the texans is the hardest job ever, considering how much teams blitz us. well does anyone wanna know why teams blitz us alot? its because carr doesnt make the opposing defenses pay the price! carr doesnt make plays. if he was rolling out, throwing deeper passes, then the defense would HAVE to back off the LOS. if carr is throwing dink passes, you cant get the defense to stop stacking the box. someone ought to remind carr that we arent playing arena football. ..and the deep passes that carr actually DOES throw, they havent been good throws. they are either jumpballs to andre that could very easily be caught or picked off....too risky, or balls that just dont make any sense.

its not so much the o-line as it is carr....just my opinion
I think you have to remember that a lot of the offense is predicated on the offensive line not being able to pass protect very well, so the line does have some blame. They did OK within an offense designed in part to protect them, not to maximize points. If the line was better and we had therefore run an offense that scores more points - the Texans would have won.

That being said, if Carr makes a couple of plays, or doesn't make some of his mistakes, then again the Texans would have won.

Either the line or Carr needs to step up, and if it is the line then play calling must reflect that to take advantage of their play.
__________________
Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon
Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #12
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
 
Kaiser Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Straight Outta Austin
Age: 44
Posts: 16,041
Rep Power: 39244 Kaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
That being said, if Carr makes a couple of plays, or doesn't make some of his mistakes, then again the Texans would have won.

Either the line or Carr needs to step up, and if it is the line then play calling must reflect that to take advantage of their play.
The Oline and Carr are equally a problem. However, when Carr has opportunities he must make them. Those two passes were squarely on him as has to make those throws. I have always mentioned that he should be measured on the opportunities that are presented to him and he does not measure to well when given the protection.
__________________
Smell the glove is here
Kaiser Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #13
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Matters fact...

Why don't we spend rd. 1-4 picks on OL.....
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #14
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,137
Rep Power: 217185 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
I'm not sure how most of you judge line play.....
I judge it by watching Tivo and taking note everytime Derrick Burgess just abuses Eric Winston, or when Vandenbosch abuses Wiegert, or when Salaam lets his guy come through more often than he should. I also take note of how other teams run basic pass plays and I compare them to our basic pass plays. I see with my own eyes what kind of protectiuon is given. All of this can be observed on plays that do not result in a sack or even a negative play. I don't pay attention to sack numbers or even who has given up how many sacks (couldn't tell you, honestly). I just watch and observe. It's not hard to see that our O-line is absolutely horrible some games and below average on their best days. Our entire passing game is predicated upon 3-step drops because the protection won't hold up for deeper drops. Our tackles do not get enough outward push on their good days. They have good moments, and I have some optimism regarding a couple of our linemen. But right now, the results aren't there.

I know you are a former offensive lineman and tend naturally to defend your position, but it's really painfully obvious that this line is bad and they have been for five years now. And all the points on which I judge them to be terrible have nothing to do with the QB. You can often observe our line and make a call on whether they did a good job before the QB has ever resolved the play. So I am leaving Carr out of this discussion completely.
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #15
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,137
Rep Power: 217185 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
Matters fact...

Why don't we spend rd. 1-4 picks on OL.....
I really don't think we need to. If we draft a blue chip tackle in round one and pair him up with Spencer and/or Winston, I think two of them can develop into a solid pair of tackles. I don't have any idea where Spencer stands on the injury issue, so take that into account. The interior line will show improvement by having better tackle play. Pitts can man the LG position. I'm optimistic about Hodgdon at Center. RG hasn't really resolved itself, but guards and centers typically come from the later rounds in the draft and/or are available via free agency, whereas tackles are usually first round picks that no one gives up to free agency.
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #16
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I judge it by watching Tivo and taking note everytime Derrick Burgess just abuses Eric Winston, or when Vandenbosch abuses Wiegert, or when Salaam lets his guy come through more often than he should. I also take note of how other teams run basic pass plays and I compare them to our basic pass plays. I see with my own eyes what kind of protectiuon is given. All of this can be observed on plays that do not result in a sack or even a negative play. I don't pay attention to sack numbers or even who has given up how many sacks (couldn't tell you, honestly). I just watch and observe. It's not hard to see that our O-line is absolutely horrible some games and below average on their best days. Our entire passing game is predicated upon 3-step drops because the protection won't hold up for deeper drops. Our tackles do not get enough outward push on their good days. They have good moments, and I have some optimism regarding a couple of our linemen. But right now, the results aren't there.

I know you are a former offensive lineman and tend naturally to defend your position, but it's really painfully obvious that this line is bad and they have been for five years now. And all the points on which I judge them to be terrible have nothing to do with the QB. You can often observe our line and make a call on whether they did a good job before the QB has ever resolved the play. So I am leaving Carr out of this discussion completely.
I agree with you. I think our line as a whole has played pretty bad, but not as horrible as some make them out to be. But the one thing I tend to consider is that we're playing 3 back-ups, and one guy who wasn't even on the active roster to begin with...And I don't think that we can leave Carr out of the discussion completely...The offense in intertwined and one plays a large role on the others success, or how the other is viewed...I'm agreeing with you that our line isn't good right now(with all the back-ups) but at the same time, I don't think Carr is helping them out a whole lot either....
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #17
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,137
Rep Power: 217185 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
I agree with you. I think our line as a whole has played pretty bad, but not as horrible as some make them out to be. But the one thing I tend to consider is that we're playing 3 back-ups, and one guy who wasn't even on the active roster to begin with...And I don't think that we can leave Carr out of the discussion completely...The offense in intertwined and one plays a large role on the others success, or how the other is viewed...I'm agreeing with you that our line isn't good right now(with all the back-ups) but at the same time, I don't think Carr is helping them out a whole lot either....
Yeah, the injuries have decimated the line ... it seems like every year. So I amend my ealier post - maybe we should draft nothing but O-line, just to have enough quality depth to form two O-lines
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #18
Runner
Hubcap Diamond
 
Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,700
Rep Power: 25614 Runner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Yeah, the injuries have decimated the line ... it seems like every year. So I amend my ealier post - maybe we should draft nothing but O-line, just to have enough quality depth to form two O-lines
Maybe the coaches should just keep what depth they have on the roster instead of carrying 9 lineman into the season only to find that depth gone when the Texans need it.

Wiegert and Flanagan out, Salaam fighting injuries - who could have forseen that?
__________________
Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon
Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #19
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Yeah, the injuries have decimated the line ... it seems like every year. So I amend my ealier post - maybe we should draft nothing but O-line, just to have enough quality depth to form two O-lines
Honestly, At this point I don't care how the Texans draft....

We need so much help that any new faces will be good to see....
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #20
Runner
Hubcap Diamond
 
Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,700
Rep Power: 25614 Runner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If we only had an OL...

Don't say anything, but I think a discsussion just occured.
__________________
Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon
Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger