Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-12-2006   #1
Mr. White
H-Town Beatdown
 
Mr. White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sugar Land
Age: 41
Posts: 6,013
Rep Power: 18101 Mr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Carr and the shotgun

Kubiak's press conference

Quote:
(on reinvestigating shotgun with QB David Carr) “I really don’t want to address that. There’s a reason why we haven’t been doing much shotgun and I’ve got to keep that in-house until we fix it. But when your quarterback is getting pressured you’d love to move him back there, you’d love to give him more time from that standpoint the minute you go back there you are throwing the ball. We’ve got some things we’ve got to work out and we have been working on them and if we can get them fixed you may see us do it some more. If we don’t get it fixed then we’re not going to do it. That’s as far as I’ll go with that.”
What do you guys make of this?
__________________
Quote:
@McClain_on_NFL
John McClain
We b trippin with Nelly. Me and Mr Dancing With the Stars Warren Sapp.
Mr. White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #2
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 33,837
Rep Power: 216695 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Red Bull View Post
Kubiak's press conference



What do you guys make of this?
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #3
Texans86
All Pro
 
Texans86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Waco, Texas
Age: 28
Posts: 927
Rep Power: 10 Texans86 is a team player
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.
Either that, or there's a reason D.Carr is a quarterback and not a wide reciever; he simply can't catch the ball. It's not outside the realm of possibility.

On a more serious note, did Flannagan ever use the shotgun in GB, or Hogden? I'm not quite sure how it could happen, but maybe for some reason our centers have difficulty snapping the ball back and then getting in position to block.
__________________
"Only the Sith deal in absolutes." ---Wait, isn't that an absolute?
Texans86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #4
moses77550
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Galveston
Age: 31
Posts: 27
Rep Power: 0 moses77550 is ridin' the pine
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

I think that the center cannot hike the ball consistantly to carr or carr just cant handle the snap....Who knows
moses77550 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #5
Mr. White
H-Town Beatdown
 
Mr. White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sugar Land
Age: 41
Posts: 6,013
Rep Power: 18101 Mr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respectedMr. White is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.
I think you're onto something here.

Another quote from the press conference:

Quote:
(on whether he would like to stretch the field more) “Yeah, you know you definitely want to come out in the game and stretch the field more in what you’re doing. As I told y’all after the game, I know for a fact that it is not a strength of ours right now. If we go out there and take a seven-step drop 20-25 times in the game and think we’re going to (WR) Andre (Johnson) 30 yards down the field and (WR) Eric (Moulds) 30 yards down the field, and that’s the way we’re going to play the game. I don’t think that’s fair to our team right now. It’s not a strength of our team right now. If we can keep our third downs manageable and keep (QB) David (Carr) in three and five-step drops, I think we have a chance to be effective. And we were yesterday whenever we were able to do that, but the minute we got a penalty and we were second-and-20 or third-and-12, we weren’t very good. So that is something that we as coaches address and try to keep them out of that situation. As we get better as a football team hopefully we’re able to handle those situations better, but right now that is not something good for us. If we have penalties in a game, then we’re usually in trouble because now we’re having some long distance yardage. It is something that we have to get better at, and the only way you’re going to get better is to just keep going back. For us right now it’s just best for us to stay out of those situations.”
Carr also can't take a 7-step drop. This tells me that the OL is as much of a problem as it ever has been.

My .... I think that we've gotta take Joe Thomas if he's there to flatten blitzers. If not, Marshawn Lynch might be there and he'd be the perfect guy on the dumpoffs that we seem so fond of running.
__________________
Quote:
@McClain_on_NFL
John McClain
We b trippin with Nelly. Me and Mr Dancing With the Stars Warren Sapp.
Mr. White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #6
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,159
Rep Power: 221373 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

How many possibilities can there be?

The center is having problems with the snap? - Flanagan snapped shotgun to Favre, so before we had Hodgdon in there, this would seem to be invalidated.

The tackles can't keep the ends from going to that spot - If you look at the tackles right now, they don't get much push outward as it is, so this is a very real possibility.

Carr can't handle the snap - possible as well, I suppose. Have we ever seen him in shotgun? Did he ever do it in college? I find it a little hard to believe a QB could make it to the pros without being able to handle a shotgun snap, but I suppose it's possible.

Am I missing anything else?

I vote we promote Bryan Pittman to starting center

Quote:
(on whether he would like to stretch the field more) “Yeah, you know you definitely want to come out in the game and stretch the field more in what you’re doing. As I told y’all after the game, I know for a fact that it is not a strength of ours right now. If we go out there and take a seven-step drop 20-25 times in the game and think we’re going to (WR) Andre (Johnson) 30 yards down the field and (WR) Eric (Moulds) 30 yards down the field, and that’s the way we’re going to play the game. I don’t think that’s fair to our team right now. It’s not a strength of our team right now. If we can keep our third downs manageable and keep (QB) David (Carr) in three and five-step drops, I think we have a chance to be effective. And we were yesterday whenever we were able to do that, but the minute we got a penalty and we were second-and-20 or third-and-12, we weren’t very good. So that is something that we as coaches address and try to keep them out of that situation. As we get better as a football team hopefully we’re able to handle those situations better, but right now that is not something good for us. If we have penalties in a game, then we’re usually in trouble because now we’re having some long distance yardage. It is something that we have to get better at, and the only way you’re going to get better is to just keep going back. For us right now it’s just best for us to stay out of those situations.”
Not having even an average offensive line hurts this team in so many ways. I pray we get that fixed.
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #7
Honoring Earl 34
Hey Koolaid
 
Honoring Earl 34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston
Age: 51
Posts: 18,959
Rep Power: 154446 Honoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.
TK , I think your baiting but I'll play ... thats when the QB steps up into the pocket .
__________________
A little about Colleen. She's the brains behind the operation. Magna cum laude from BC, top five in her law school class, so obviously I have a pretty good idea how to recruit, I can tell you that.
Honoring Earl 34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 12-12-2006   #8
Reddevil63
Hall of Fame
 
Reddevil63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Arlington
Age: 30
Posts: 1,253
Rep Power: 13 Reddevil63 is on the Pro-Bowl ballotReddevil63 is on the Pro-Bowl ballot
Send a message via AIM to Reddevil63 Send a message via Yahoo to Reddevil63
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Im thinking its more along the lines of Carr cant read defenses when he is concentrating on catching the snap.
__________________
Keep Kevin Kolb in Houston in '07
Reddevil63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #9
Honoring Earl 34
Hey Koolaid
 
Honoring Earl 34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston
Age: 51
Posts: 18,959
Rep Power: 154446 Honoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Well ... they've never used the shotgun that I can remember .
__________________
A little about Colleen. She's the brains behind the operation. Magna cum laude from BC, top five in her law school class, so obviously I have a pretty good idea how to recruit, I can tell you that.
Honoring Earl 34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #10
dtran04
Hall of Fame
 
dtran04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 1,583
Rep Power: 2409 dtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respecteddtran04 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Carr has done it in past years plenty of times. Kubiak also said that going to 7 step drops was not possible right now and that they would stick to 5. To me, that clearly means O-Line. I'm betting that the O-Line is getting killed in practice, making Kubiak have zero faith in them.
dtran04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #11
Runner
Hubcap Diamond
 
Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,700
Rep Power: 25614 Runner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.
I'd say that this is a big part of the reason.

As an aside, I've also been told by somebody who has been around the block a few times that when Carr takes a 7 step drop he ends up a little deeper than the various back-ups we've had. This puts additional pressure on the tackles in those situations.
__________________
Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon
Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #12
HOU-TEX 
Ah, Football!
 
HOU-TEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: P-land
Age: 43
Posts: 15,413
Rep Power: 105157 HOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddevil63 View Post
Im thinking its more along the lines of Carr cant read defenses when he is concentrating on catching the snap.
DCs inability to step up in the pocket doesn't help much either.

These are both pretty good opinions.
__________________
Kubiak: "They’re battling their tail off." Translation: They suck.
HOU-TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #13
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 18,159
Rep Power: 221373 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

I was just looking up the game log from the StL game last year for another thread and noticed that Carr passed from the shotgun five times in the first half (the half in which he called the plays). FWIW.
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #14
srstex
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 54
Posts: 230
Rep Power: 9 srstex is a team player
Default Stat Time

QB Attempts Sacked % to attempts
P. Manning 457 13 2.8%
S. McNair 398 14 3.5
T. Brady 430 23 5.3
Titan 376 20 5.3
V Young 286 16 5.6
K Collins 90 4 4.4
P Rivers 383 23 6.0
Jacksonville 346 22 6.4
Pennington 387 25 6.5
Miami 490 34 6.9
C Palmer 414 30 7.2
Kansa City 353 29 8.2
Big Ben 393 37 9.4
D. Carr 376 36 9.6
J P Lossman 342 38 11.1
Frye 358 43 12
Oakland 382 62 16.2

The Titan O line is GOOD, The Texan O line is not. This is just the AFC and this helps show what is wrong with our team.
__________________
There are only two seasons in this world, football season, and the off season.
srstex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #15
the wonger need food
Hall of Fame
 
the wonger need food's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Age: 44
Posts: 2,562
Rep Power: 1340 the wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Stat Time

Quote:
Originally Posted by srstex View Post
QB Attempts Sacked % to attempts
P. Manning 457 13 2.8%
S. McNair 398 14 3.5
T. Brady 430 23 5.3
Titan 376 20 5.3
V Young 286 16 5.6
K Collins 90 4 4.4
P Rivers 383 23 6.0
Jacksonville 346 22 6.4
Pennington 387 25 6.5
Miami 490 34 6.9
C Palmer 414 30 7.2
Kansa City 353 29 8.2
Big Ben 393 37 9.4
D. Carr 376 36 9.6
J P Lossman 342 38 11.1
Frye 358 43 12
Oakland 382 62 16.2

The Titan O line is GOOD, The Texan O line is not. This is just the AFC and this helps show what is wrong with our team.
It doesn't come close to telling the whole story. Carr contributes to about 50% of his sacks because he has zero pocket presence, holds onto the ball too long and can't read defenses.
the wonger need food is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #16
kenneth24
Veteran
 
kenneth24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tomball
Age: 38
Posts: 195
Rep Power: 9 kenneth24 is a team player
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I take it to mean our tackles can't keep the defenders away from that spot, 7 yards behind the line..... they just let them run to that spot... so why put your QB there.
That would be my best guess as well...as for not being able to handle the snap in the shotgun, I seriously doubt that would be the problem...as long as the DE don't beat the ball back to him.
kenneth24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #17
FLYmeatwad
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South Jersey
Age: 25
Posts: 69
Rep Power: 8 FLYmeatwad is ridin' the pine
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

THat was actually a major problem I've had. I've seen little to no shotgun all year. It's really hurting that deep ball that we desperately need to implement in to the attack plan.
FLYmeatwad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #18
ib4texans
Veteran
 
ib4texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 421
Rep Power: 8 ib4texans is a team player
Default Re: Stat Time

Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
It doesn't come close to telling the whole story. Carr contributes to about 50% of his sacks because he has zero pocket presence, holds onto the ball too long and can't read defenses.

I'm pretty sure I saw him step up in the pocket right away against the Titans this Sunday and make about a 14 yard rush. It didn't look accidental, it looked like he made that decision quick.
ib4texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006   #19
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 33,837
Rep Power: 216695 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
That is a very logical answer right there. Flanagan has experience with the shotgun snap. He did play for a Superbowl winning team and he was behind Brett Favre.
David was in the shotgun in one of our games this year. One, maybe two snaps. I don't remember how it went..... but we didn't go back to it much after that.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006   #20
the wonger need food
Hall of Fame
 
the wonger need food's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Age: 44
Posts: 2,562
Rep Power: 1340 the wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr and the shotgun

I think the problem is that Carr has to take his eyes off of the defense to catch the ball in the shotgun. When he's taking the snap from under center he can look at the field the whole time. He's just not smart and/or confident enough to be in the shotgun. Sometimes I wonder if he can chew gum and walk at the same time...
the wonger need food is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger