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Old 12-11-2006   #1
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Default Comparing Mario Williams?

Just for comparison sake, I thought I'd chart up a comparison of how Mario Williams is comparing to the rest of his rookie class. not only was he the top rated defensive prospect, but he was the #1 overall choice much to the dismay of fans of VY and RB. So here are the stats:

I only posted the stats of all the DEs through the 2nd round, and then includued some notables later on. A lot of the other 3rd-7th rounders aren't playing enough to count.

Mario Williams, DE Texans - 1st round 1st pick
27 solo tackles, 9 assisted tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints

Kamerion Wimbley, DE Browns - 1st round 13th pick
34 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 7.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints
(starting as an OLB this year)

Tamba Hali, DE Chiefs - 1st round 20th pick
38 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 ff, 0 ints
(starting at DE this year)

Mathias Kiwanuke, DE Giants - 1st round 32nd pick
28 solo tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 4.0 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints
(started as a backup DE this year)

Darryl Tapp, DE Seahawks - 2nd round 31st pick
12 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1 ff, 1 int
(backs up G. Wistron this year at DE)

Elvis Dumervil, DE Broncos - 4th round, 29th pick
11 solo tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 7.0 sacks, 0 ff, 0 int
(backs up Ekuban at DE, only played in 10 games)

Mark Anderson, DE Bears - 5th round, 27th pick
17 solo tackles, 5 assisted tackles, 8.0 sacks, 3 ff, 0 int
(backs up Alex Brown at DE this year)


So hows that look to you guys? Not only is he by far the least productive in the first round, but there are 4th and 5th round backup rookie DEs who are out producing him, at least in the sack department.

I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.
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Old 12-11-2006   #2
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Just for comparison sake, I thought I'd chart up a comparison of how Mario Williams is comparing to the rest of his rookie class. not only was he the top rated defensive prospect, but he was the #1 overall choice much to the dismay of fans of VY and RB. So here are the stats:

I only posted the stats of all the DEs through the 2nd round, and then includued some notables later on. A lot of the other 3rd-7th rounders aren't playing enough to count.

Mario Williams, DE Texans - 1st round 1st pick
27 solo tackles, 9 assisted tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints

Kamerion Wimbley, DE Browns - 1st round 13th pick
34 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 7.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints
(starting as an OLB this year)

Tamba Hali, DE Chiefs - 1st round 20th pick
38 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 ff, 0 ints
(starting at DE this year)

Mathias Kiwanuke, DE Giants - 1st round 32nd pick
28 solo tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 4.0 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints
(started as a backup DE this year)

Darryl Tapp, DE Seahawks - 2nd round 31st pick
12 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1 ff, 1 int
(backs up G. Wistron this year at DE)

Elvis Dumervil, DE Broncos - 4th round, 29th pick
11 solo tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 7.0 sacks, 0 ff, 0 int
(backs up Ekuban at DE, only played in 10 games)

Mark Anderson, DE Bears - 5th round, 27th pick
17 solo tackles, 5 assisted tackles, 8.0 sacks, 3 ff, 0 int
(backs up Alex Brown at DE this year)


So hows that look to you guys? Not only is he by far the least productive in the first round, but there are 4th and 5th round backup rookie DEs who are out producing him, at least in the sack department.

I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.
I venture a guess that these players are not the players that the offense is keying on. I think that there is a high probability these are much better defenses over all. No excuses, I would really like him to be a standout player also.
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Old 12-11-2006   #3
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

I thinks its fair to compare these players straight up. Defenses key on great players, and yet the produce all the time.

You have the same argument about Reggie. People said he wasn't lighting it up because defenses were keying on him. I claimed BS, defenses don't key on non-producers.

Just like in this case, I don't think offenses are keying so heavily on MW that he isn't producing. I think he's getting handled by average tackles on a regular basis.
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Old 12-11-2006   #4
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I thinks its fair to compare these players straight up. Defenses key on great players, and yet the produce all the time.
Now how about you list which of these players are playing injured with plantar fasciitis. (If you have ever had it............which I have......Its not fun, pretty much let me slam your foot with a sledge and lets see how spunky you are) That will really be helpful as we compare these players as the year goes on........
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Old 12-11-2006   #5
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

any chance of us being able to swap that mike anderson fellow for williams now he has game for a rookie.
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Old 12-11-2006   #6
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Then again, I also notice how it awfully hard to produce if teams run to the other side. In coachdent's thread about the OAK game, he mentioned:

Out of 22 runs, 4 were to his side and that they equaled a grand total of 4 yards I believe. There were two other plays to his side that resulted in holding penalties at the point of attack.
With us losing most of the games, that means more runs for the opposing team, giving our DLine less opportunies (also one could say thats why Demeco has such high stats) Anderson of the Bears has an inflated number of sacks since his team is always ahead. Perfect example is the game today vs STL. They were up big and STL had to take 7 step drops and wait for long routes to develop.
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Old 12-11-2006   #7
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Mario will be fine. Most of those guy's have supporting cast as for Mario he has Ryans a fellow rookie. I think once this team starts peacing this defense together Mario will be one of the best through out the year. Plus he has played injured what half the season so stop dumping on him give him a little credit for going out and playing injured in this day in age where turf toe or a hang nail will keep you out 2 to 3 weeks.
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Old 12-11-2006   #8
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

This is a very good way to compare him to other draft picks in a fair way. It proves a lot.
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Old 12-11-2006   #9
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I thinks its fair to compare these players straight up. Defenses key on great players, and yet the produce all the time.

You have the same argument about Reggie. People said he wasn't lighting it up because defenses were keying on him. I claimed BS, defenses don't key on non-producers.

Just like in this case, I don't think offenses are keying so heavily on MW that he isn't producing. I think he's getting handled by average tackles on a regular basis.
This is his first freakin' season. At least let's see what he does next year before we pass judgement. It is not unusual for a guy to take a season or two to develop. At 21 years of age, at his size and ability and the fact that this rookie is playing through an injury so painful that he has to wear a special boot and is held out of Wednesday practices, Mario Williams does not concern me. I believe he will prove to be the Richard Seymour of this defense.

While these other guys (most of whom are on better teams) are doing well, many other top defensive linemen have statistically started slowly while others have simply been flashes in the pan. I prefer to just watch how he dose his job (when I get to see him play) and am anxiously waiting to see how year 2 goes.
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Old 12-11-2006   #10
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv_ya_blue View Post
So WHERE do you run against a team with a TOTAL DEFENSE?
Bears?
Chargers?
Broncos?
And so on and so forth...

Just flip a coin in the huddle?

Sorry bubba, but the Bears have come from behind in SEVERAL games this year.
Against a TOTAL defense, you spread it out... run it both sides. If I were to run against the Texans, I would run it at Babin/Peek ANYTIME they are on the field. They are backed up by the great Morlon Greenwood.
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Old 12-11-2006   #11
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
This is a very good way to compare him to other draft picks in a fair way. It proves a lot.
If I was a fan of another team that has probably only seen just a couple of games and pulled up stat sheets for the rest, I would probably think the same.

Mario is injured and has absolutely no help in the secondary.......this isn't a cop out....its the truth.

Mario is going to be a good player.......just wait.

Last edited by Carr Bombed; 12-12-2006 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 12-12-2006   #12
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughnecks View Post
Mario will be fine. Most of those guy's have supporting cast as for Mario he has Ryans a fellow rookie. I think once this team starts peacing this defense together Mario will be one of the best through out the year. Plus he has played injured what half the season so stop dumping on him give him a little credit for going out and playing injured in this day in age where turf toe or a hang nail will keep you out 2 to 3 weeks.
Gotta agree here. Mario and Ryans are major pieces of what could be a top flight defense. Get another guy on the line, some LB help and a legit safety (or corner) and this defense is ready to go. We gotta remember that this ain't the same Texans as a year ago. This is year 1 of the new phase. I'm trying to be patient and see how Kubiak and Smith round this baby out this next offseason.
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Old 12-12-2006   #13
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

So based on these #s, you want to tell me that you would choose any of these guys over Mario Williams? Give me a break. I really hate stat whores. I think I'll rave about Carr's completion %, and VY's terrible QB rating while I'm at it.
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Old 12-12-2006   #14
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Playing DE goes way beyond what the stats tell.
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Old 12-12-2006   #15
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Just for comparison sake, I thought I'd chart up a comparison of how Mario Williams is comparing to the rest of his rookie class. not only was he the top rated defensive prospect, but he was the #1 overall choice much to the dismay of fans of VY and RB. So here are the stats:

I only posted the stats of all the DEs through the 2nd round, and then includued some notables later on. A lot of the other 3rd-7th rounders aren't playing enough to count.

Mario Williams, DE Texans - 1st round 1st pick
27 solo tackles, 9 assisted tackles, 4.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints

Kamerion Wimbley, DE Browns - 1st round 13th pick
34 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 7.5 sacks, 0 ff, 0 ints
(starting as an OLB this year)

Tamba Hali, DE Chiefs - 1st round 20th pick
38 solo tackles, 14 assisted tackles, 5.0 sacks, 5 ff, 0 ints
(starting at DE this year)

Mathias Kiwanuke, DE Giants - 1st round 32nd pick
28 solo tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 4.0 sacks, 2 ff, 2 ints
(started as a backup DE this year)

Darryl Tapp, DE Seahawks - 2nd round 31st pick
12 solo tackles, 3 assisted tackles, 3.0 sacks, 1 ff, 1 int
(backs up G. Wistron this year at DE)

Elvis Dumervil, DE Broncos - 4th round, 29th pick
11 solo tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 7.0 sacks, 0 ff, 0 int
(backs up Ekuban at DE, only played in 10 games)

Mark Anderson, DE Bears - 5th round, 27th pick
17 solo tackles, 5 assisted tackles, 8.0 sacks, 3 ff, 0 int
(backs up Alex Brown at DE this year)


So hows that look to you guys? Not only is he by far the least productive in the first round, but there are 4th and 5th round backup rookie DEs who are out producing him, at least in the sack department.

I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.
You try to play with the injury this young man has, play with the pressure this young man has on him, and see how you do. He's dong all he can and then some, but the coaching staff are letting him down by playing him while injured when there is absolutely no reason to do so. We are not going anywhere fast. Its time to put him on IR for the rest of the year as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 12-12-2006   #16
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry View Post
You try to play with the injury this young man has, play with the pressure this young man has on him, and see how you do. He's dong all he can and then some, but the coaching staff are letting him down by playing him while injured when there is absolutely no reason to do so. We are not going anywhere fast. Its time to put him on IR for the rest of the year as far as I'm concerned.
The only advantage I see to keeping him in is that Mario is getting in his reps. Kubiak has lamented the fact that Spencer has to miss his reps so I can see why the coach would want to keep playing him if there isn't much danger to continuing to do so. The experience is irreplaceable.

Supposedly, the injury doesn't tend to worsen. Kubiak said that the MRI recently done on the foot looked better than the last one, but Mario is still pretty beat up. Anyway, I give Mario props for toughing it out and hopefully he'll go Bruce Smith (who posted a whopping 6.5 sacks his first season) on the league after having an offseason to heal and digest his 1st season.
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Old 12-12-2006   #17
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

This is NOT a fair comparison, the other rooks, if you guys noticed ALOT comes from STOUT DEFENSES- Bears, Broncs, Seahawks, chiefs, the only poor team was Da Browns! I'm sure that this is a luxury if your a rook...or vet, cuz they can't just key in on you or double team you constantly! I can't wait to see a healthy Mario & pieces along with Demeco to help build this D! Needs: FS, CB, DT, LB, man- this is a MUST!!! You have to remember that other teams has the luxury to run away or double team Mario, bad right foot & all! People just need to chill or go follow their man-crushes Vince or Reggie!
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Old 12-12-2006   #18
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I keep hearing that DEs take time to develop, but these guys sure don't seem to need it. For a 1st overall choice, he's got a lot of catching up to do.
Mario isn't built to be a weakside pass rusher like most of the guys listed. He is supposed to be a dominant force against the run that also has some pass-rushing skills. Remember when the Titans had Kevin Carter and Jevon Kearse? He is more like Kevin Carter. The Texans still need the weakside DE that is more of a pass-rusher and less of a run stuffer. I think Mario will be a great LDE for years to come.

I'm not convinced we should have drafted him, but he does fill a big need. Is it his fault that we drafted him? I think when he is healthy next year, he will be more of a force.
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Old 12-12-2006   #19
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

I think Mario really does need to step it up, and it may be that injured foot causing him to play the way he is but I'm not to sure about this whole comparison. To compare these rookies is just like comparing the Texans to the teams they are on. If Mario went to Chicago, I'm pretty sure his stats would be different.
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Old 12-12-2006   #20
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Default Re: Comparing Mario Williams?

Yikes!!! If Mario was drafted by Da-bears & healthy..or not The Windy City will probably be doing the Superbowl Shuffle Part 2!
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