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Old 12-11-2006   #1
gtexan02
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Default What do we even have to work with?

Looking at our roster is embarssing. Maybe we are slowly winning more games than last year, but I would have to say that if possible, we actually look worse. Lets take a look at our current roster:

QB: Carr - I'm sorry, but at this point, barring some miraculous offseason brain washing, I just don't see how this "do whatever it takes not to care" quarterback of ours is going to turn from a "just doin my day job" kind of guy to a "football is my life" kind of leader we need. Sage is a backup, and only looks great in comparison because our #1 guy is so inept.

HB: Davis is probably done forever, and the Gado/Dayne/Lundy bumbling on again off again routine is getting old. Serious need.

WR: Moulds was supposed to be the veteran presence to take the heat off of AJ. AJ was supposed to be our lead playmaker. Maybe its Carr's fault, but AJ never finds the endzone, and Moulds never even finds the ball. I don't know if Mathis will ever be a WR, and our #3 and 4 guys may as well not even play.

FB: I don't know enough about Cook to make a well informed decision, but it seems to me that when you specifically bring in a guy who is supposed to be a great receiver out of the backfield and then he fumbles two receptions on two consecutive crucial games he should be sent packing. At least get a guy who can block.

TE: Daniels has shown he has what it takes, but can he be consisent? Maybe if he could split his time bewteen catching and blocking instead of helping the OL the entire game, he'd have more production.

OT: Spencer won't be back next year, at least not the way he was. If he was progressing at all with his rehab we would have heard about it or heard from him. All the signs point to a half empty glass. Winston has a long way to go. Salaam and Wiegart's combined age and injury report is enough to scare away small children.

OG: Pitts is decent and Weary showed flashes. Does less embarassing count as good?

C: Flannagan is good for a game or two in a row, and Hodgon is not NFL caliber. Definite position of need here.

Defense:

DE: On paper, you'd think Babin + Peek + Kalu + Williams + Weaver would be a force to be reckoned with. I guess papers a little misleading. I don't know who is serviceable out of that bunch, but if we don't get some production out of those players, its going to be a painful bout of hindsight looking back on those drafts.

DT: Payne was on the decline and injury riddled list before the season even started, and who knows what is up with TJ. A season off with an injury + another offseason means great business for Burger King but horrible luck for our Houston Texans front 4.

OLB: Again I dont even know what to say. Wong- is he healthy is he hurt? Whats the deal. He's not going to back to the way he was, which wasn't even all that great before. Orr is a backup, and Greenwood shows flashes but his contract would have you believe he's headed to the probowl year in year out.

MLB: Our one solid position. Too bad we dont have anyone behind him.

Secondary: I'm going to go ahead and lump the entire secondary together here. DRob plays with fire when he wants to, but can't count on any of the other guys. Faggins is a fantastic corner for covering slow receivers, but can get burned often and easily. Our safeties were actually caught building sand castles in the end zone one game...well, not really, but you get the point.

So in retrospect heres how I see it:

Legitimate starters next year:
WR: Johnson
TE: Daniels
OT: Winston
OG: Pitts
DE: Williams
DE: Weaver
MLB: Ryans
CB: Robinson

8 down, 14 to go. We're in for a long decade.
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Old 12-11-2006   #2
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Moulds (WR), Greenwood (olb), Hodgdon (C), T. Johnson (DT) can be added to that list.

Additionally.. we have a few "good enough" players.. like Kalu, Salaam, and Earl.

All in all.. yah.. we definatly have some holes to fill.. but we arent broken at 14 positions.

(btw i did read your post.. i just think that, even with the negatives, these guys can be added to the list of "starters")
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Old 12-11-2006   #3
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid View Post
Moulds (WR), Greenwood (olb), Hodgdon (C), T. Johnson (DT) can be added to that list.

Additionally.. we have a few "good enough" players.. like Kalu, Salaam, and Earl.

All in all.. yah.. we definatly have some holes to fill.. but we arent broken at 14 positions.

(btw i did read your post.. i just think that, even with the negatives, these guys can be added to the list of "starters")
You're probably right. I'll adjust the list as follows:

Our best players:
WR: Johnson
TE: Daniels
MLB: Ryans

Good players:
OG: Pitts
OT: Winston
DE: Williams
DE: Weaver
CB: Robinson
WR: Moulds

Good enough players:
DT: Johnson
S: Earl

Good backups:
DE: Kalu
OT: Salaam
OC: Hodgon
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Old 12-11-2006   #4
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Ding - We Have a Winner! Reality finally sets in...

BTW Babin is a bust - another wonderful choice for Bob's Buffoons...
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Old 12-11-2006   #5
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
You're probably right. I'll adjust the list as follows:

Our best players:
WR: Johnson
TE: Daniels
MLB: Ryans

Good players:
OG: Pitts
OT: Winston
DE: Williams
DE: Weaver
CB: Robinson
WR: Moulds

Good enough players:
DT: Johnson
S: Earl

Good backups:
DE: Kalu
OT: Salaam
OC: Hodgon
That looks about right. I think you are a little too pesimistic about Spencer. He should be starting at LT, and I would put him at good or good enough, with potential to be really good. Add Greenwood to the gray area between good enough and good backup. Travis Johnson might need to be there also.
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Old 12-11-2006   #6
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

I think these are good lists (original post probably a little to pessimistic).

Have we given up on Orr, Faggins, and Simmons?
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Old 12-11-2006   #7
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Orr and Faggins are both feast or famine players. Unreliable. Simmons isnt starter material IMO.. great hitter..but too one dimensional.


As for Spencer.. I think he could be our starting LT too..but there are rumblings about him not coming back from this injury with as much potential as he had before. So he is kind of up in the air.
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Old 12-11-2006   #8
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

I think the Texans have found their fullback, well after they got rid of Norris, in Vonta Leach. It's no coincidence that the running game added a little power when he replaced an injured Cook last week. So, he can block. Also he had a nice catch and run yesterday.

I think Petey is an excellent nickel corner who can spot start, but the Texans need another corner opposite Dunta.
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Old 12-11-2006   #9
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

This team isn't that bad, we just need players at key areas

QB
S
OL
#2 CB
RB

Thats about it.

Do yall remember all the holes we had before last years draft........we filled alot of holes through the draft and FA........we have a offseason like last and we will have a decent team next year.
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Old 12-11-2006   #10
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bomb View Post
This team isn't that bad, we just need players at key areas

QB
S
OL
#2 CB
RB

Thats about it.

Do yall remember all the holes we had before last years draft........we filled alot of holes through the draft and FA........we have a offseason like last and we will have a decent team next year.
I agree but I really think Carr will be givin one more shot under Kubiak

so that leaves us
Saftey can be gotten in Draft round 2
OL Draft Round 3
#2CB Free agent
RB Draft round 1

and we are done!
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Old 12-11-2006   #11
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Well.....

Great players:
Demeco
Mathis (Returner only)

Good:
Mario
Daniels
AJ
Carr
Pitts
D-Rob

Average:
Faggins
Glen Earl


?????due to injuries
Spencer
Flanigan (Who has not played a full season in 3)
Dominick Davis




if people can get past not taking VY (funny how the MEDIA NOW changes their mind about who the Texans should have drafted, first was Bush now all of a sudden they were all screaming about VY) this is a good draft and I suspect the new GM and Kubiak will continue bringing in solid players.
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Old 12-11-2006   #12
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Kubiak is starting off with more talent than Capers began with, I guess that's one positive. We have some players with great potential, and a couple who have already achieved enough of that potential to be considered good players. Here's how I see the breakdown.

QB: I foresee Kubiak giving Carr another year, which really disappoints me. I'd like to see us bring in someone at QB who isn't just labelled the back up. Bring in someone with marginal starter talent and let it be known that it's an open competition.

RB: We have a stable of good back ups. We need a starter here, especially in the type of offense Kubiak wants us to have.

FB: Jameel Cook look so so this year. Vonta Leach is playing pretty well. We're ok here.

OL: We need more talent everywhere. Nobody's a lock to keep their starting role.

TE: I actually like our roster here. Owen Daniels, Jeb Putzier, and Mark Bruener can get the job done. Daniels could become a really good TE.

WR: Andre's one of the best in the league, we need to get some more young guys looked at for a #3 and possible replacement for Moulds in a few years.

DT: Our starters are down, but they're not very good either. Payne is injury prone at this point in his career, and neither him or Travis Johnson are impact players. We have good depth, but we could do better.

DE: I'm happy with what we've got here. Mario is not only solid, he has the potential to be a star.

CB: DRob would be best suited as a #2. Faggins would make a great nickel back again. I'm alright with leaving Faggins as our #2 next year because he's the biggest playmaker in the secondary, and we could see more benefit from upgrading other positions first.

LB: Ryans is a stud, he's the cornerstone of our defense. Both OLB positions are meh, wouldn't mind seeing someone else get a shot there.

S: Brown and Earl are physical, but they get caught out of position too often and don't break on the ball very well. I'd like to see us go get a ball-hawking FS this off-season.

P: We need a punter with a big leg. Stanley's good if you can get him to the 50, the problem is we normally stall out at the 30. If you're going to punt as often as we do, you might as well do it in style with someone who will help you in the field position battle.

K: Brown's ok for now. Erratic for spurts, but ok overall.


I'd like to see us go draft the LT out of Wisconsin. Going ugly in the draft sucks short term, but long term it can pay off in spades.
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Old 12-11-2006   #13
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

This team has ZERO depth. It's what happens when your 2nd and 3rd round picks are nonexistant for about 5 yrs. That's another 6-7 guys that could be playing roles for this team.
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Old 12-11-2006   #14
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Looking at our roster is embarssing. Maybe we are slowly winning more games than last year, but I would have to say that if possible, we actually look worse. Lets take a look at our current roster:

QB: Carr - I'm sorry, but at this point, barring some miraculous offseason brain washing, I just don't see how this "do whatever it takes not to care" quarterback of ours is going to turn from a "just doin my day job" kind of guy to a "football is my life" kind of leader we need. Sage is a backup, and only looks great in comparison because our #1 guy is so inept.

HB: Davis is probably done forever, and the Gado/Dayne/Lundy bumbling on again off again routine is getting old. Serious need.

WR: Moulds was supposed to be the veteran presence to take the heat off of AJ. AJ was supposed to be our lead playmaker. Maybe its Carr's fault, but AJ never finds the endzone, and Moulds never even finds the ball. I don't know if Mathis will ever be a WR, and our #3 and 4 guys may as well not even play.

FB: I don't know enough about Cook to make a well informed decision, but it seems to me that when you specifically bring in a guy who is supposed to be a great receiver out of the backfield and then he fumbles two receptions on two consecutive crucial games he should be sent packing. At least get a guy who can block.

TE: Daniels has shown he has what it takes, but can he be consisent? Maybe if he could split his time bewteen catching and blocking instead of helping the OL the entire game, he'd have more production.

OT: Spencer won't be back next year, at least not the way he was. If he was progressing at all with his rehab we would have heard about it or heard from him. All the signs point to a half empty glass. Winston has a long way to go. Salaam and Wiegart's combined age and injury report is enough to scare away small children.

OG: Pitts is decent and Weary showed flashes. Does less embarassing count as good?

C: Flannagan is good for a game or two in a row, and Hodgon is not NFL caliber. Definite position of need here.

Defense:

DE: On paper, you'd think Babin + Peek + Kalu + Williams + Weaver would be a force to be reckoned with. I guess papers a little misleading. I don't know who is serviceable out of that bunch, but if we don't get some production out of those players, its going to be a painful bout of hindsight looking back on those drafts.

DT: Payne was on the decline and injury riddled list before the season even started, and who knows what is up with TJ. A season off with an injury + another offseason means great business for Burger King but horrible luck for our Houston Texans front 4.

OLB: Again I dont even know what to say. Wong- is he healthy is he hurt? Whats the deal. He's not going to back to the way he was, which wasn't even all that great before. Orr is a backup, and Greenwood shows flashes but his contract would have you believe he's headed to the probowl year in year out.

MLB: Our one solid position. Too bad we dont have anyone behind him.

Secondary: I'm going to go ahead and lump the entire secondary together here. DRob plays with fire when he wants to, but can't count on any of the other guys. Faggins is a fantastic corner for covering slow receivers, but can get burned often and easily. Our safeties were actually caught building sand castles in the end zone one game...well, not really, but you get the point.

So in retrospect heres how I see it:

Legitimate starters next year:
WR: Johnson
TE: Daniels
OT: Winston
OG: Pitts
DE: Williams
DE: Weaver
MLB: Ryans
CB: Robinson

8 down, 14 to go. We're in for a long decade.

If what they say is true, "It all starts at the top...", then you have little if anything to work with. Boob McNair is a punk and has punked the Texan fans. He has ZERO football knowledge and all of your dinero.

As an old Jewish man once told me, "The fish is always stinking from the head..."

Unfortunatley this qoute may be over the head of many that have been led to slaughter by Boob...
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Old 12-11-2006   #15
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

QB: We need to replace Carr. I can't really call him bad, but he's not helping this team win. He has so much holding him back that not even Kubiak seems to be able to fix him. He plays like he's scared to make mistakes; he won't lose too many games, but there is such a thing as "too safe". Maybe I'm missing something there.

RB: Dayne has played better thanks to the O-line; Lundy needs to develop his vision, as he misses too many holes and cutback lanes. Not really a place to invest too much in.

FB: The running game has picked up when Leach got his chance. He looks like a solid player.

WR: AJ REALLY needs to work on his hands to claim elite status. He has the talent, but doesn't have that "gimme the ball so I can make plays" attitude that would help him excel. Moulds and Walter are solid when targeted, but they don't get on the field much.

OL: I lkie Winston's run blocking, and a little more experience pass blocking will turn him into a strong player. Weary is a backup, Hodgdon and Salaam are solid backups, and Pitts is just solid.

TE: One of the brightest positions on the team, Daniels will produce while Putzier and Bruener can get the job done when needed.

DE: Mario will dominate soon enough. Kalu has played well; Babin, Peek, and Weaver have been so-so. I actually believe Peek would have produced more if he stayed healthy.

DT: Somehow I'm under the impression that Dalton and Maddox played better than Payne and TJ. Payne is as good as gone, and God knows about TJ. This spot is one that needs to be examined.

OLB: I'm higher on Greenwood than most on this board. Orr is inconsistent at best. One guy I would keep an eye on is Charlie Anderson. He was around the ball a lot on Sunday and may see more PT in New England.

MLB: DeMeco is a beast.

CB: Our CBs our playing a spot above themselves: D-Rob can't take on the elite receivers and shines at #2. Faggins is aggressive and makes good plays on the ball, but gets burned way too much one-on-one. He'd be a great nickel, but if you want to get really creative, try him at FS...his ball skills may be just what we need at that spot.

S: Earl, Simmons, and Brown are physical, but their cover skills leave a lot to be desired. Look for a ball-hawk here, or go crazy and try Faggins there after picking up a new corner (it's just a thought).

K: Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeccccccchhhhhhhh kkkkk. Brown is actually okay and can get some good distance, but he needs to be set up in the middle of the field. Angles kill him.

P: Stanley doesn't have much boot, and fouls up too many times. We should look for someone to come in and compete for his spot.

I'm more optimistic about the Texans than most, I just think the talent needs to be brought together, as well as stay healthy.
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Old 12-11-2006   #16
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
DE: On paper, you'd think Babin + Peek + Kalu + Williams + Weaver would be a force to be reckoned with. I guess papers a little misleading. I don't know who is serviceable out of that bunch, but if we don't get some production out of those players, its going to be a painful bout of hindsight looking back on those drafts.

DT: Payne was on the decline and injury riddled list before the season even started, and who knows what is up with TJ. A season off with an injury + another offseason means great business for Burger King but horrible luck for our Houston Texans front 4.
The defensive line has been one the biggest disappointments for me. I really thought we'd have a better pass rush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldeagle View Post
Well.....

Great players:
Demeco
Mathis (Returner only)

Good:
Mario
Daniels
AJ
Carr
Pitts
D-Rob

Average:
Faggins
Glen Earl


?????due to injuries
Spencer
Flanigan (Who has not played a full season in 3)
Dominick Davis




if people can get past not taking VY (funny how the MEDIA NOW changes their mind about who the Texans should have drafted, first was Bush now all of a sudden they were all screaming about VY) this is a good draft and I suspect the new GM and Kubiak will continue bringing in solid players.
Good list, and indicative that we can be a consistently competitive team within a year if we make the right choices in the off-season.

And well said about the media's tendency see the past with 20/20 hindsight. They're a pack of sheep.
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Old 12-11-2006   #17
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

the Texans need speed on the end (DE) speed on the corners (CB) & speed in the middle of the defense (FS/SS) thats four.

add speed @ RB & WR, franchise LT & a QB without fear, thats four on the offensive side for a total of 8 needs & thats just for starters.

CB, FS, RB, WR & DE via draft. LT & QB through F/A or trade.
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Old 12-12-2006   #18
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

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the Texans need speed on the end (DE) speed on the corners (CB) & speed in the middle of the defense (FS/SS) thats four.

add speed @ RB & WR, franchise LT & a QB without fear, thats four on the offensive side for a total of 8 needs & thats just for starters.

CB, FS, RB, WR & DE via draft. LT & QB through F/A or trade.
Thats going a little overboard.

We have speed on the end with Peek and Babin. What we need is some help from the interior linemen, and it wouldnt hurt to have an OLB that is a bit more athletic/has more of a motor.

So, DT and OLB.

Throw in FS because we have a big question mark at that position..and having a ballhawk at FS would really help our CBs (id love to be in the position to try Dunta at FS).

So thats three.. DT, OLB, FS. Defense is taken care of.

On offense our biggest need is QB. We need a young and promising prospect. Second to QB would be the olineman needs. I think a guard and a tackle are the big needs there.

So, QB, OT, and OG.

That really takes care of our needs with 6 total. Yah I know some people say we need an RB. I agree that we could use some more speed at the position.. but we dont necessarily need a STARTER. I think that, given better run blocking from our Oline.. Lundy, Dayne, and Gado are a great trio of RBs. They may not light the league on fire but they can get the job done if they have a hole to run through. Now, I would not mind dropping one of these guys and replacing him with a late round speedy back.. or someone grabbed from FA.. but we dont need to spend big bucks, or a high pick, on an RB IMO.


So, 6 REAL needs. Still not great.. but not undoable either. Plus, as the team fills some of these needs and gets stronger, you will notice that alot of our "average" players turn into good players when they have more help.
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Old 12-12-2006   #19
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Default Re: What do we even have to work with?

I agree with Grid's analysis, but would switch in a RB for a QB. I know that Carr is not the long term answer, but I believe that if we had a some semblance of a healthy line, and a real threat in the backfield, he can be more than serviceable. Also, my thinking is that (in the short term) it will be easier to draft and acquire an upgrade at RB than at QB. No reason to put another young QB behind a dessimated line. Once we fix those holes, we can draft a young QB who we can groom for the future.

Although we probably need line help first, I think that this franchise owes it to the fans to go after an impact RB that can become the face of the offense.
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