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Old 12-08-2006   #1
TemeculaMike
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Default What I know (from a Chargers fan).

I have watched the Texans and its fans for some time. I attended the first game the Texans played the Chargers (@ Qualcomm) and watched my team sack rookie David Carr - 9 times.

1. Games are won in the trenches. When the big uglies on the line don't play well - all is lost.

2. A QB gains confidence when his o-line keeps him from getting knocked on his butt. Case in point - Drew Brees was considered a bust in 2003, with a passer rating of 67.5, the next year (2004) he blew the socks off the NFL with a passer rating of 104.8. The difference? In 2003, the Charger o-line gave up 29 sacks and Brees was constently under pressure - in 2004 they only gave up 21 and he was less hurried on many of his throws (4th best in the NFL). FYI - Houston gave up 36 and 49 sacks in 2003 and 2004, respectfully.

3. You establish the run first - it opens up the passing game.

4. "Offense sells tickets - Defense wins Championships" (technically, I learned this from Vince Lombardi and not the Chargers per se - OK, I also learned it from the 2000 Ravens, 2001, 2003, 2004 Patriots, 2002 Bucs, and 2005 Steelers). The Houston Texans defense was ranked = 31st (2003); 19th (2004); 30th (2005); and 29th (2006 to date). Anybody want to guess what year the Texans won its most games (which was 7)? Hint - after golfing players will go to the ___ hole.

5. Field goal kickers are responsible for at least 3-4 wins or loses per year.

6. A defense that can apply pressure on the quarterback can turn a great QB into something mediocre.

Its disheartening watching your team flounder - I know, my Chargers were the league laughing stock for years. We had the 1st round draft pick, Eli Manning told us he would rather go to law school than play for the Chargers. That really sucked.

You have in Gary Kubiak an excellent offensive mind that was responsible for fielding a Denver offense that regularly kicked the butt of my team. Glad he's gone to Houston.

I also know this, David Carr is a decent QB that can be a great QB if given the chance. The Houston Texans have done a horrible job of building an O-Line that can protect their QB. Casserly should have been fired years ago. Once your GM figures out that games are won-and-lost in the trenches, things will turn around.
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Old 12-08-2006   #2
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

Good post, i pretty much agree w/everything you said.
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Old 12-08-2006   #3
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

Nice post! Good to here (educated) opinions from fans of other teams on the outside looking in. It gives us a little food for thought.
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Old 12-08-2006   #4
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

Excellent Post!

P.S. - I would give my left leg for LT.....
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Old 12-08-2006   #5
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

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Originally Posted by TexansLucky13 View Post
Excellent Post!

P.S. - I would give my left leg for LT.....
And i would give my right leg for LT Marcus Mcneil right about now lol.
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Old 12-08-2006   #6
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

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And i would give my right leg for LT Marcus Mcneil right about now lol.
Nice!
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Old 12-08-2006   #7
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

So basically what you are saying, is that the Cardinals, the Cowboys, the Dolphins, & the Jaguars screwed up, and should have kept playing Warner(a QB who has shown that he can play in this league...... a league MVP, and SuperBowl winning QB), Bledsoe(a HOFer, career stats put him in company of the best of the best, an AFC Championship winning QB, hand picked by one of the more talented talent scouts ever.....), Dante Culpepper(Electrifying Arm, solid performer, proven, NFC Championship playing QB, multiple probowls), Leftwhich... well, he's not as accomplished, but he's proven that he has what it takes to win in this league....

& SanDiego..... they should have kept Rivers on the Bench, and continued to play Brees... they really goofed up drafting Rivers in the first place, since they already had Brees.

yeah, I gotcha...... every other team in the league can go ahead and waste their time changing QBs...... but not us.... we should continue "chopping wood" with David Carr, because he is all that.
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Old 12-08-2006   #8
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansLucky13 View Post
Excellent Post!

P.S. - I would give my left leg for LT.....
The only other back in the NFL that I would compare to LT is Reggie Bush. Living in So.Cal and being a USC fan, I watched every USC game he played in. Bush is the same type of threat that LT poses. The advantage the Saints have is they can rely on McAllister and use Bush to create mismatch problems. Bush is currently on pace to have more total yards (rush/receive) than LT had his first year.
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Old 12-08-2006   #9
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

This is one of the best and most accurate outsider inputs we have ever seen on this MB. You must have done some serious research and actually understand the building process as a Chargers fan. It makes you think though, you just had the #1 overall pick and now are a playoff team...how much did C and C screw us over? Good foundation for your team and good luck. Our MB would bennifit from your presence and I hope you post more often.
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Old 12-08-2006   #10
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
So basically what you are saying, is that the Cardinals, the Cowboys, the Dolphins, & the Jaguars screwed up, and should have kept playing Warner(a QB who has shown that he can play in this league...... a league MVP, and SuperBowl winning QB), Bledsoe(a HOFer, career stats put him in company of the best of the best, an AFC Championship winning QB, hand picked by one of the more talented talent scouts ever.....), Dante Culpepper(Electrifying Arm, solid performer, proven, NFC Championship playing QB, multiple probowls), Leftwhich... well, he's not as accomplished, but he's proven that he has what it takes to win in this league....
No. All of those QB's cited (30+) had lost their mobility and suffered diminished skills. All of the teams you cited gained a slightly better QB, except for the Cowboys who got a really nice QB. Of course, moving to a new QB only really works when the QB has a few years in the system (i.e. Romo, Rivers, Brady, etc.)

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& SanDiego..... they should have kept Rivers on the Bench, and continued to play Brees... they really goofed up drafting Rivers in the first place, since they already had Brees.
I think its safe to say, Brees would have worked out great for the Chargers if we would have kept him. The concerns regarding his damaged shoulder were overstated. The team might have been challenging the 72' Dolphins with Brees behind center - especially with this year's o-line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
yeah, I gotcha...... every other team in the league can go ahead and waste their time changing QBs...... but not us.... we should continue "chopping wood" with David Carr, because he is all that.
Carr hasn't ever been given the chance to be "all that." I will say this - with your o-line, Vince Young would have been a good selection because he can at least run away from linebackers. Michael Vick would work. All other QB's would have suffered the same fate and your team would not have improved. If Houston is going to ignore the vital/critical importance of their O-Line then you will be "chopping wood" at the bottom of the standing for a long time.
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Old 12-08-2006   #11
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

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Originally Posted by TemeculaMike View Post
2. A QB gains confidence when his o-line keeps him from getting knocked on his butt. Case in point - Drew Brees was considered a bust in 2003, with a passer rating of 67.5, the next year (2004) he blew the socks off the NFL with a passer rating of 104.8. The difference? In 2003, the Charger o-line gave up 29 sacks and Brees was constently under pressure - in 2004 they only gave up 21 and he was less hurried on many of his throws (4th best in the NFL). FYI - Houston gave up 36 and 49 sacks in 2003 and 2004, respectfully.
thanks for the perspective mike, very well written and absolutely correct. i quote this section because i've watched quite a bit of the chargers and i've used them as a point of reference on more than one occassion because the 03 and 04 seasons you're comparing are complete opposites ... in 03 yall went 4-12 and the very next year yall went 12-4 and brees goes to the probowl. the stats you mention are good but i like WHY yall had those stats. in 2004 yall replaced 4 starters on your offensive line from 03 that i saw. the texans have nickeled and dimed the offensive line since their inception, we have yet to make drastic changes to address the most gaping hole i've probably ever seen in football. it took us FIVE YEARS to get two bonafied starters on the line ... and one of those is an injured rookie. the texans wont succeed and david carr wont stand a chance until that area is the center of sweeping changes.
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Old 12-08-2006   #12
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

My concern is that sometimes, you have to MAKE things work. We are the Houston Texans here; we don't have a running game that's going to be there every week. When it's not there, SOMEBODY has to make a play, and those somebodies are Carr and AJ. And usually, one of them is making the other look bad, wheather it be AJ's drops or Carrs fumbles.

I don't know how you guys were able to get a bunch of scrubs together on that Oline to come together and play good football (this was before McNiel too), but I'm very envious. We've been trying for years to put this Oline together with lots of cash spent; you guys just picked up some bodies and made it work! But I guess LT can make any line look decent.

My concern is that if things aren't working the way they're supposed to, can Carr step up and make a play? Can Carr do something that's going to allow us to win the game? I sure hope he does on Sunday...
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Old 12-08-2006   #13
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

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Originally Posted by TemeculaMike View Post
I have watched the Texans and its fans for some time. I attended the first game the Texans played the Chargers (@ Qualcomm) and watched my team sack rookie David Carr - 9 times.

1. Games are won in the trenches. When the big uglies on the line don't play well - all is lost.

2. A QB gains confidence when his o-line keeps him from getting knocked on his butt. Case in point - Drew Brees was considered a bust in 2003, with a passer rating of 67.5, the next year (2004) he blew the socks off the NFL with a passer rating of 104.8. The difference? In 2003, the Charger o-line gave up 29 sacks and Brees was constently under pressure - in 2004 they only gave up 21 and he was less hurried on many of his throws (4th best in the NFL). FYI - Houston gave up 36 and 49 sacks in 2003 and 2004, respectfully.

3. You establish the run first - it opens up the passing game.

4. "Offense sells tickets - Defense wins Championships" (technically, I learned this from Vince Lombardi and not the Chargers per se - OK, I also learned it from the 2000 Ravens, 2001, 2003, 2004 Patriots, 2002 Bucs, and 2005 Steelers). The Houston Texans defense was ranked = 31st (2003); 19th (2004); 30th (2005); and 29th (2006 to date). Anybody want to guess what year the Texans won its most games (which was 7)? Hint - after golfing players will go to the ___ hole.

5. Field goal kickers are responsible for at least 3-4 wins or loses per year.

6. A defense that can apply pressure on the quarterback can turn a great QB into something mediocre.

Its disheartening watching your team flounder - I know, my Chargers were the league laughing stock for years. We had the 1st round draft pick, Eli Manning told us he would rather go to law school than play for the Chargers. That really sucked.

You have in Gary Kubiak an excellent offensive mind that was responsible for fielding a Denver offense that regularly kicked the butt of my team. Glad he's gone to Houston.

I also know this, David Carr is a decent QB that can be a great QB if given the chance. The Houston Texans have done a horrible job of building an O-Line that can protect their QB. Casserly should have been fired years ago. Once your GM figures out that games are won-and-lost in the trenches, things will turn around.

WOW, thank you for having such a great post!!!!
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Old 12-08-2006   #14
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

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No. All of those QB's cited (30+) had lost their mobility and suffered diminished skills. All of the teams you cited gained a slightly better QB, except for the Cowboys who got a really nice QB. Of course, moving to a new QB only really works when the QB has a few years in the system (i.e. Romo, Rivers, Brady, etc.)
I don't think so. Warner wasn't a spring chicken when he won the superbowl. If Arizona had an offensive line, he'd still be able to do the same things he did back when.

Bledsoe has never been mobile, and he's shown to be able to perform as well as he ever has if he's given the protection you & every other Cali-fan want to give David Carr.

Is Leftwich 30 yet??

Culpepper??

What our problem is people look at rushing yards and think that makes David mobile, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Those mobile QBs would more accurately be described as elusive, something David does not have. David is athletic...... he's got speed..... but he isn't elusive like Harrington, Romo, Garrard, or Sage.
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Carr hasn't ever been given the chance to be "all that." I will say this - with your o-line, Vince Young would have been a good selection because he can at least run away from linebackers. Michael Vick would work. All other QB's would have suffered the same fate and your team would not have improved. If Houston is going to ignore the vital/critical importance of their O-Line then you will be "chopping wood" at the bottom of the standing for a long time.
I'm not even asking him to run away from linebackers........ just chunk the ball into the stands if your guy isn't open. & when he is, when it's time to make the play, drop the ball into his hands, where he doesn't have to reach back & fight the DB for the ball, or throw it to his outside shoulder when help is coming from the inside, or when you throw the fade, throw it to the Pylon.... at the back of the endzone.

no, Carr may not have been given the chance to be "all that" but he's been given a chance just as good as Batch, Harrington, Couch, Ryan Leaf, etc.. etc..

When exactly do you think the Chargers turned things around??

according to your draft historyyou don't believe in taking OL talent earlier than the third round, with the exception of this years second round pick MM.....

If we follow your "bluePrint", after drafting Carr with the #1 overall, we should have drafted a QB with the second pick of the draft 4 years later.. kinda like what you did by drafting Brees 4 years after you drafted Leaf.... then three years later, drafting another QB with the #1 overall....

From the time you drafted Leaf, till the time you drafted Rivers(7 years), you spent 2 first day pick on your offensive line, are we to think you were ignoring your offensive line talent in that time period??

I think you're right, and we should have been following your example. Draft a qB with the #1 overall(in your case, the #2 overall) then 4 years later, draft a second round QB, then three years later, another QB with the #1 overall.
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Old 12-08-2006   #15
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

My friends in DC sure would like to have Carr lol.

Funny how the ***** Houston fan (Carr haters) dont see football as a team sport. Yet everyone else in the Country gets it.
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Old 12-08-2006   #16
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

I agree with all those about it being a great post and many more returns th the MB looking forward to it. I was thinking the D looks pretty good this year and should be good next year so why not draft offense heavy next year with at lease a free agent on the defense(secondary). I think Coach Kubes will sit down after the season and take a long look at this season but not so much looking at the players but his self and seeing where he can improve bottom line win or lose I am Texans fan. Something to think about the Seahawks was not very good for years in a weak division but they made it to the Super bowl on their defense and a good oline they lose a key piece of their line and they are not as good win the trench's you have a chance.
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Old 12-09-2006   #17
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

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My friends in DC sure would like to have Carr lol.

Funny how the ***** Houston fan (Carr haters) dont see football as a team sport. Yet everyone else in the Country gets it.
yeah.....

Surely the Pats would be 9-3 had they let Brady go to Seattle......

INdy would be 10-2 had they sent Peyton to Arizona.....

Baltimore would be 9-3 had Mcnair gone to Cleveland...

Dallas would be 8-4 if Romo was still on the bench....

New Orleans would definitely be 8-4 if Aaron had not insulted the owner.....

Sometimes, it doesn't matter who the QB is.. Chicago, Arizona, Houston...

Sometimes it does.... Dallas, Miami, Jacksonville.....

Sometimes the backup is pretty darn good KC, Seattle

bottom line, this is the NFL..... all men aren't created equal, and their paychecks usually show it.
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Old 12-09-2006   #18
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

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I don't know how you guys were able to get a bunch of scrubs together on that Oline to come together and play good football (this was before McNiel too), but I'm very envious.
I believe his name was Hudson Houck, who has since moved on to another team (Falcons?). His O-line principles remain in play in SD, however. Texans should have done everything in their power to hire him when he left SD for the other team.
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Old 12-09-2006   #19
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

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... What our problem is people look at rushing yards and think that makes David mobile, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Those mobile QBs would more accurately be described as elusive, something David does not have. David is athletic...... he's got speed..... but he isn't elusive like Harrington, Romo, Garrard, or Sage.
***
no, Carr may not have been given the chance to be "all that" but he's been given a chance just as good as Batch, Harrington, Couch, Ryan Leaf, etc.. etc..

When exactly do you think the Chargers turned things around??

according to your draft historyyou don't believe in taking OL talent earlier than the third round, with the exception of this years second round pick MM.....

***

From the time you drafted Leaf, till the time you drafted Rivers(7 years), you spent 2 first day pick on your offensive line, are we to think you were ignoring your offensive line talent in that time period??

I think you're right, and we should have been following your example. Draft a qB with the #1 overall(in your case, the #2 overall) then 4 years later, draft a second round QB, then three years later, another QB with the #1 overall.
Leftwich was injured (making him play like a 30 year old)

The one thing Warner had was a good o-line and one of the best backs at the time, Marshall Faulk. The Cardinal line is a joke (just ask the E.James).

Here's the thing. I think essentially we agree with the impact of the things the Texans have done wrong. The difference is I believe Carr's problems are caused by the lack of support he has gotten from the organization.

Houston has never had a good defense. Its a totally different ball game when your defense causes the opponent to go 3 and out 5 times in a row. A good defense allows the offense to get on a roll and only play half the field. How many times have the Houston Texans started their drives at their 40+?

Why are the Chargers where they are at right now? Simple - they trade their high draft picks for players and more picks. The Chargers held the No.1 pick a few years ago and traded it to the Falcons. The trade resulted in a kid named LT and wide receiver named Dwight and two more picks in the 2002 draft.

Once again in 2004, the Chargers traded their top pick (Manning) for a later pick (Rivers), FG Kicker Nate Keading and a few more draft picks the following year (Merriman) and (Oben in a trade for one of the picks).

The Chargers are big believers in acquiring o-linemen in later rounds (4,5,6,7) to see if any work out. Our new tackle McNeil is a monster and an exception to the rule.

The Chargers really started to turn the corner when Wade Philips revamped the defense and installed 3-4 and our O-Line was solidified with good players. The year was 2004. We also got lucky with a few finds like Antonio Gates (undrafted basketball player).

Lets get something straight. Drafting multiple QB's is not the answer. Leaf was a huge mistake - the man was a childish *****; Brees was a good 2nd round draft pick and a franchise QB. Rivers was also a good pick and franchise QB. Truth be told, right now, Brees is the better QB and Rivers will grow into the roll. Its just a good thing we have LT and an excellent o-line to take the pressure off Rivers. Oh ya ... having one of the NFL's top defenses is also a good thing.
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Old 12-09-2006   #20
TemeculaMike
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: um ... Temecula, CA
Age: 44
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Default Re: What I know (from a Chargers fan).

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I believe his name was Hudson Houck, who has since moved on to another team (Falcons?). His O-line principles remain in play in SD, however. Texans should have done everything in their power to hire him when he left SD for the other team.
He went to Miami. After Houck left our o-line play dropped and the team missed the playoffs last year. This year, we replaced the o-line coach that replaced Hauck with two o-line coaches. The o-line has played very well this year.
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