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Old 12-05-2006   #1
Wharton
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Default Are we the Cardinals?

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If we continue to be as incompetent as we are right now, you might as well rename us the Browns.
The other day I made the above comment as an answer to one of DBs posts. This was more of a "pop off" then anything else but its got me to thinking When does losing on a regular basis become a culture of losing?

I think we can all agree that losing in general is contagious. And that once the cycle is started, its hard to break. But some football clubs have been in a losing rut for so long, you can say they have a culture of losing. The Cardinals come to mind. Without looking it up, I cant remember the last time they were in the playoffs. Id have to say losing has gone beyond just a problem with them, its a culture that permeates throughout the club.

This train of thought lead to many questions such as:
How much more losing does it take before a culture starts to develop? Or just is?
Has a losing culture started to develop within the Texans?
If it has, what can we do about it?
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Old 12-05-2006   #2
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

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Has a losing culture started to develop within the Texans?
It did when C & C were in control.

This team is 4-8 and should be 6-6 with crap talent. I think the coaching changes and our first real good draft is a promising sign for the future. Debate the QB crap all you want, I don't think this owner is Bidwell and I don't think this coaching stafff will let the players mutiny as they did under Capers.
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Old 12-05-2006   #3
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

I live here in Phoenix and the new stadium which I have been to already and right down the street from the base I work at. I work with some Cardinal fans and as well with other team fans being a military base with adversity and f rom my experience this is what I hear. The Cardinals are just depressing bad unitl recently Leniert and Co started to make it interesting. The first consensus all the time from them is get rid of Green with a new coach and the OL line to mention a few. The fans here are expecting bigger things to happen soon with the new stadium. I think finally just like the Texans they will eventually pull out of the rebuilding slump and bring excitement to this city.I also hear that there are alot of Cowboy fans and others here too probably because it's one of the fastest growing cities attracting alot of out of towners. I also sense this animosity towards the west coasters. Anyways the Texans are a better team than the Cards as of now IMO. I've been here two years and haven't yet found one Texan fan athough I'm proud wearing my Texan apparrel around here it really stands out as the one and only.
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Old 12-05-2006   #4
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

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Originally Posted by TexanBorn51 View Post
I live here in Phoenix and the new stadium which I have been to already and right down the street from the base I work at. I work with some Cardinal fans and as well with other team fans being a military base with adversity and f rom my experience this is what I hear. The Cardinals are just depressing bad unitl recently Leniert and Co started to make it interesting. The first consensus all the time from them is get rid of Green with a new coach and the OL line to mention a few. The fans here are expecting bigger things to happen soon with the new stadium. I think finally just like the Texans they will eventually pull out of the rebuilding slump and bring excitement to this city.I also hear that there are alot of Cowboy fans and others here too probably because it's one of the fastest growing cities attracting alot of out of towners. I also sense this animosity towards the west coasters. Anyways the Texans are a better team than the Cards as of now IMO. I've been here two years and haven't yet found one Texan fan athough I'm proud wearing my Texan apparrel around here it really stands out as the one and only.
I noticed that when the Cowboys came out to play the Cardinals there was almost as much blue in the crowd as red & the crowd cheered louder for the Cowboys than they did for the Cardinals.
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Old 12-05-2006   #5
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

I also live in Phoenix and trust me....we are NOT the Cardinals.
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Old 12-05-2006   #6
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

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Originally Posted by aj. View Post
It did when C & C were in control.

This team is 4-8 and should be 6-6 with crap talent. I think the coaching changes and our first real good draft is a promising sign for the future. Debate the QB crap all you want, I don't think this owner is Bidwell and I don't think this coaching stafff will let the players mutiny as they did under Capers.
Great post. Makes me feel good about the future...

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The Texans current franchise record is 22-54 and the Cardinals over the same period are 23-53 and Detroit is 21-55. The Texans will most likely pass the Cardinals this year and the Raiders 26-50 next year.
...until I read this AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
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Old 12-05-2006   #7
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

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Originally Posted by Bob McNair View Post
Since the Texans came into the league (2002) only 3 teams have not had at least one winning season: Texans, Cardinals, Lions. Even the Browns won 9 games one year! Even if we think "we're not as sad as them..." the Cardinals and the Lions are who everyone else in the league will continue to lump us in with until we have a winning season.
The Cardinals have sucked forever. The Lions have sucked forever. Yes, the Texans are in their 5th season, but that is still a team in its infancy. I had hoped the new Houston franchise would be a winner early in its existence, but 5 years is still not an unreasonably long time to wait after starting from scratch. This team will be a winner before too much longer and after it becomes a winner I believe it will remain a winner for a long time....
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Old 12-05-2006   #8
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

The difference is ownership and the goals of ownership. I think there is an obvious difference between Houston and Arizona owners. From the get-go, the Texans have had a new stadium, great facilities, and the full support and cooperation of the front office, even if they did butt heads at times. McNair is driven to bring a winning team to Houston, and it will happen. For Arizona, they have in the past been content to get decent players and play in Sun Devil stadium. It is only recently (yes, beginning with hiring Dennis Green) that I heard the wheels starting to turn in Phoenix. Like with the Texans, the wheels take time to turn, and a new coaching staff will likely be necessary. But it'll still happen.
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Old 12-05-2006   #9
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

Yea and Mr. McNair will spend the money as were the Cards owners will not they are happy just to get by and it is a shame. And then they wonder why the fans are not showing up at lease on our part you see glimpses of what might lie a head because our front office will go get a free agent if they will come here the way I see it if they do not want to come than we do it through the draft and when they do want to come tell them at a discount and show us you deserve to be a Texan. Of coarse that is when we start winning.
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Old 12-06-2006   #10
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

I was just asking myself the same question the other day.

I doubt it. The Cards seem to have very little support in their own city. I visit Phoenix about three times a year and have never met a Cards fan. Met lots of Chargers fans and a few Raiders fans but never a Cards fan.

I think we will be a better team soon. Just a few years ago the Bengals and the Bears were scraping the bottoms of their divisions and now are pretty good football teams.
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Old 12-06-2006   #11
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

We are similar in that we both have awful O-Lines. I can see fan support fading to Cowboy and Titan factions just because....people are very fickle here. Down the road, we might as well end up like them. The main difference, however, is the commitment to winning and the front office.
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Old 12-06-2006   #12
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

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Originally Posted by TexansFanatic View Post
The Cardinals have sucked forever. The Lions have sucked forever. Yes, the Texans are in their 5th season, but that is still a team in its infancy. I had hoped the new Houston franchise would be a winner early in its existence, but 5 years is still not an unreasonably long time to wait after starting from scratch. This team will be a winner before too much longer and after it becomes a winner I believe it will remain a winner for a long time....
Actually, the Texans are the first expansion team since the merger to go five years w/o a winnning season. During a five year period in the NFL, all but the most pathetic organizations accomplish some sort of winning record at least one season. IMO, it was not unreasonable for those us who were overjoyed with the 19-10 opening game victory to have a season with more wins than losses. I hope the organization itself is not running around thinking it is too young or still basically an expansion franchise, so it is okay to throw out a product that frankly has been both bad and boring.
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Old 12-06-2006   #13
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

I've said all along that I have been scared that we would eventually become the DetroitArizona Texans.
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Old 12-06-2006   #14
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

Sad to say but the 2-14 season scrapped the building phase to rebuilding again. Thus the information about young team. We do have a young team and early on in the season that was the truth, not an excuse.

You can see on the defensive side, that our young group is coming together.
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Old 12-06-2006   #15
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

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Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
Sad to say but the 2-14 season scrapped the building phase to rebuilding again. Thus the information about young team. We do have a young team and early on in the season that was the truth, not an excuse.

You can see on the defensive side, that our young group is coming together.

You are mixing concepts. Young in this particular thread is not referring to players on the field, but to the time the organization has been in existentence. Actaully, the Texans players are probably not as young (age wise) as the general perception either.
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Old 12-06-2006   #16
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

See, when you compare something you have to compare something of likeness with similar qualities. If you are going to compare the texans with any team, records or anything, do it over a five year period. Take anyteam and compare them for 5 years and its hard for them to maintain a winning record, except for the elite teams such as NE, Indy, Philly, Denver and Pitts.

But two things you have to take into account is one, noone grows up saying I want to play with the Cards when I grow. James was a big pickup for them because how many talented FA want to go to a team like that. Overcourse, the money is better these days.

Take teams like Dallas, NE, Packers, Steelers, and they have good marketing to attract talented player and have created the idea that you want to grow up and play for us. Its an honor. So in five years, they could rebound quickly from a losing record. Then everyone wants to go there to be a winner.

Secondly, take in mind that starting from scratch 5yrs ago, you may have a system that is developed to ensure that an expansion team can get off to a competitive start compared to expansion teams of the past, but when you have the mentally challenged(no, thats giving them too much credit), when you have dumb and dumber leading the way, you have a chance to take the long way to a winning record.

Thats the problem. We had a chance at a short cut to winning. The idiots of past left us with thier mistakes to pay for. SO now we have to take the normal, long and hard path to a winning franchise. Instead of developing a winning atmosphere, we have that expansion team tag still hanging over us. Only players that want a fresh start and try something new, and want to say "I built that" want to come here. Thanks, by the way, Moulds and Weaver. And the effort was nice all powerful, omnipotent Young who if you had gotten sacked instead of let go like you were supposed to wouldnt be making Texans fans have an aching hangover.

Yes. We are still an expansion team. We are not rebuilding . We are building. To rebuild you have to have something in place first that works. We were never working properly.

So, yes we are like the Cards in we are losers, but losers of a different sort.

Losing is the norm for the Cards because its they have always been losing. BTW, I think they beat the Cowboys in the playoffs in the late 90s. Sound familar? Plummer at QB? And since then that winning has been too much for them and really like losing.

We are losers or a different sort because we dont know what works and have to do a do-over from scratch. New GM, HC, Staff, first round pick whom coincidentaly was the same type of player we passed on the first time, and possibly now a new Qb. The last one is in the air but is crashing down quickly.

But yea, we are still losers.
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Old 12-06-2006   #17
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

Well I looked it up the other day, and the Cardinals have had one winning season in the past twenty something years. Hopefully, the Texans won't match that mark for futility. On a brighter note, for any Cardinal fans and/or Cowboy haters out there, the Cardinals have won a playoff game more recently than the Cowgirls. Their victim? Those very same Cowgirls.
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Old 12-06-2006   #18
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Default Re: Are we the Cardinals?

I'm concerned that the Texans were built as a football corporation and not as a football team - i.e. a bunch of young guys making a lot of money playing a game.

I think the Texans organizational structure takes some of the sponteneity and fun out of the game. This results in the players "going to work" as a daily grind. This in turn reduces the fire and drive in them and that can be seen on the field of play. It is hard to get pumped up and emotional at a job that has a metaphoric "time clock".
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