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Old 09-29-2004   #1
fball
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Default O-Line?

Hey guy's, I have noticed these first couple of games, that our offensive line has been manhandled, compared to last year. I haven't went and looked at the stats, jus based off what I've seen so far, Carr has been sacked and hurried much more than last year at this time, and the running game has suffered as well, and I don't know what the setback is all about, maybe it's the new zone blocking scheme, and if so Carr will be always looking over his shoulder until we get this under control!
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Old 09-29-2004   #2
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Hopefully, they are learning on the job, and will start to get it together a little better, starting with Oakland this Sunday. It is also having an adverse effect on their pass blocking, so that needs to get a lot better, in a hurry, or this Sunday will be a long day for us.
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Old 09-29-2004   #3
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Most people on this board have stated in some form or another that the o-line and d-line are getting pushed around. We won't be drafting a running back in round 1 next year as some suggested in another thread. We should be drafting big uglys.

Pitts may have to go back to lt if this keeps up. The Raiders are strong on both lines so it could be a long day in the trenches.

As far as DD goes I think he is fine. We need him in there. Just open up the playbook and get Carr some time to throw. Start involving the te to keep the safeties honest.

Our front 3 on the dl worry me. They are getting pushed around like rag dolls. Seth Payne doesn't look like he once did. Walker either. Robaire Smith probably is still adjusting to the 3-4.

I think it could be a long year if we can't start winning the battle in the trenches. Palmer and Fangio need to get creative to help em out.
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Old 09-29-2004   #4
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Well, I wouldn't say that they're worse than last year, but I have to say I see little improvement on the O-line. As for the D-line, I really can't say. We are running a 3-4 D afterall. Maybe some blame should go on the LB's as well?
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Old 09-30-2004   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phan1
Well, I wouldn't say that they're worse than last year, but I have to say I see little improvement on the O-line. As for the D-line, I really can't say. We are running a 3-4 D afterall. Maybe some blame should go on the LB's as well?
I think they gave up about 36 sacks last year and at this years pace they will easily pass that. I have commited on this before, but I'm really tired of seeing the Oline being so dominated. They better show some improvement this week or oakland is going to dominate this game and its going to be a long game. Oaklands Dline looked pretty impressive in that sunday night game. The thing that makes me mad is that I know our oline can do it. Each time a critical play came they steped it up and made the play, especially on third and long.
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Old 09-30-2004   #6
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Default Tackle play

If you take a look at the Texans line, they are most likely being hurt by the Tackle play. Seth Wand is new to the system, along with Wade. Although Pitts is new on the guard position, this guy is becoming a seasoned veteran and has learned alot of tricks since starting his rookie season. McKinney continues to be a stud. When Davie Franchise is being pressured, it's around the outside of the pocket, which usually allows him time to scramble through the middle for a few yards. BUT, when the guards and center are helping out the tackles, that's when you see the entire pocket colapse and David go down! My opinion, we should have left Pitts where he developed a good flow for the game. Wand at times looks to be overpowered by the NFL rush ends!
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Old 09-30-2004   #7
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As of right now, here is what the OL has done--the penalties below are only false start and holding:

Steve McKinney 0 sacks allowed, 0 penalties--still wouldn't say he has been a stud
Chester Pitts 1 sack allowed, 2 false starts
Zach Wiegert .5 sack allowed, 0 penalties
Fred Weary 0 sacks, 1 false start
Todd Washington 0 sacks, penalties
Seth Wand 2.5 sacks, 1 hold
Todd Wade 2 sacks, 0 penalties

That only accounts for 6 of the 10 sacks given up so far--the others must have been on the RB's or TE's.
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Old 09-30-2004   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
As of right now, here is what the OL has done--the penalties below are only false start and holding:

Steve McKinney 0 sacks allowed, 0 penalties--still wouldn't say he has been a stud
Chester Pitts 1 sack allowed, 2 false starts
Zach Wiegert .5 sack allowed, 0 penalties
Fred Weary 0 sacks, 1 false start
Todd Washington 0 sacks, penalties
Seth Wand 2.5 sacks, 1 hold
Todd Wade 2 sacks, 0 penalties

That only accounts for 6 of the 10 sacks given up so far--the others must have been on the RB's or TE's.
Where did you find that information?
Is there a link?
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Old 09-30-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Steve McKinney 0 sacks allowed, 0 penalties--still wouldn't say he has been a stud
I've seen misleading statistics before, but that one takes the birthday cake all the way to the house. :~
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Old 09-30-2004   #10
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The pressure has mostly come from the gaps in between the interior lineman. I don't care about the stats, because I have seen the pocket collapse more than I care to this year.
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Old 09-30-2004   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornOrange
Where did you find that information?
Is there a link?
Sorry, forgot the link--
Stats, Inc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
I've seen misleading statistics before, but that one takes the birthday cake all the way to the house.
The pressure up the middle was the source of my comment about not calling McKinney a stud. They may also have a last man responsible rule for crediting sacks, i.e. if McKinney lets someone through but there is a RB in who misses a block they may give the sack to the RB. I would blame the OLmen more but hey. What these stats don't reveal also is that the collapse of the center leads to more sacks credited to the tackles because Carr cannot step up to avoid an edge rusher that the tackles might normally be able to ride out of the play if Carr could just step forward a little.
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Old 09-30-2004   #12
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The oline will definately have their hands full this weekend. I have faith in our coaching staff to have a good gameplan for the task ahead. Of course the running game getting on track would definately help keep the defense honest.
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Old 09-30-2004   #13
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I heard Hollings is ready to practice. Is he expected to be activated for this game?
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Old 09-30-2004   #14
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He did attend practice and said he felt 100%.
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Old 09-30-2004   #15
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Seth McKinney is good but he isn't all that great.
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Old 09-30-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
As of right now, here is what the OL has done--the penalties below are only false start and holding:

Steve McKinney 0 sacks allowed, 0 penalties--still wouldn't say he has been a stud
Chester Pitts 1 sack allowed, 2 false starts
Zach Wiegert .5 sack allowed, 0 penalties
Fred Weary 0 sacks, 1 false start
Todd Washington 0 sacks, penalties
Seth Wand 2.5 sacks, 1 hold
Todd Wade 2 sacks, 0 penalties

That only accounts for 6 of the 10 sacks given up so far--the others must have been on the RB's or TE's.
Nice find.

Just by looking at stats one would think that our Tackles are getting hammered on the edge when in reality most of the push is coming from the inside and Carr has no where to step up. He has nowhere to go except to the outside and is being flushed to waiting edge rushers. That is the real problem in our line. The QB has limited opportunities to step UP into the pocket.
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Old 09-30-2004   #17
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I just finished reviewing my tapes of the K. C. game and I have a Totally different opinion of the line play than some of you.

Most of the problems were in the middle of the line. McKinney had a TERRIBLE game and Weary was worse. Wand and Pitts played decently. Not great but acceptable. I was shocked at how poorly McKinney played. I expected more from him. I don't know their assignments so I just have to go by what I see.

On the D-line: Walker got pushed around quite a bit. Again I expected more from him. Payne just stood his ground, not much more.

Babin seemed to be overly concerned with containment. Maybe that was his assignment. He did contain well but the running backs kept cutting back inside and gaining yards. Maybe the linebackers responsibilities?

I don't like Foreman so it is hard for me to give him the benefit of the doubt, so I will refrain from commenting on him.

Just my observations,

sensei

Last edited by sensei; 09-30-2004 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 09-30-2004   #18
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I think McKinney had matchup problems last week. Im not a name or stats man but as I recall he was trying to stop one of the premier nose tackles in the league who had him out weighed by 50 plus lbs. He wont draw that kind of assignment every week. Most of Carrs drops have been boot legs and I have noticed he will sometimes scramble into a sack where as If he had trusted his o-line he would have been o.k. I cant say I blame him though because those occasions are more rare than the alternative. O-Line has there work cut out this weekend. Carr better keep his head on a swivle.
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Old 09-30-2004   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Nice find.

Just by looking at stats one would think that our Tackles are getting hammered on the edge when in reality most of the push is coming from the inside and Carr has no where to step up. He has nowhere to go except to the outside and is being flushed to waiting edge rushers. That is the real problem in our line. The QB has limited opportunities to step UP into the pocket.
I completely agree with this. Last week was the first game I've seen thus far ( I live in the Bay area and no longer have DirecTV, but at least, since its Oakland, I'll get to see the next game) and I was amazed to see McKinney literally getting tossed around and driven backwards by the KC Dline. And all this time I thought McKinney was a fantastic guy. As for Wand's allowed sack in the KC game, I thought that one was excuseable because Carr started scrambling and ran around Wand so that all the defender had to do was fall backward and lunge at Carr to get the sack.

What I would like to see is a stat showing "QB pressures allowed" or "assignments missed" (the last one may be one only the Texans can accurately record).
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Old 09-30-2004   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei
On the D-line: Walker got pushed around quite a bit. Again I expected more from him. Payne just stood his ground, not much more.
What about Ioane? Everytime I noticed him, he was in the offensive backfield after tossing some KC OL to the side like a rag doll. Did he do well in those instances where it wsn't impossible to miss him?
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