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Old 10-07-2004   #21
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Ah my friend. Now you see that is what I am talking about. You presented facts, you gave me links to sites to prove your point, and hell ya even downgraded my intelligence a few times. My hat goes off to you for that last post, however you knew I wasn't going to just sit back and get the last word. So here we go.

First of all I would like to know exactly how I am an outsider? I was born and raised in Texas, have several great friends that go to the University of Texas. I have been to the Red River Shootout on the Texas side. So as far as an outsider, I dont what you are talking about. I go to Louisiana State but you havent heard me throw their name in the hat. I would also like to know where you got.

[b]"As an LSU fan it's not surprising you weren't impressed. What interest would you have in it? I'm pretty sure if I went to the World's Largest Cocktail Party I wouldn't think much of it either."[b] Why exactly do i care about the worlds largest OUTDOOR coctail party? Do you know who plays in that. Ill give ya a hint, it's not LSU.
I'm aware it's not LSU. Hence me referencing myself "I'm pretty sure if I went...". I didn't say anything about you going. It's an example of a fan with not much interest between two schools attending one of their games. Following along now?

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Here is another point. This whole argument started between us because you agreed with theOGRE who said that the UT vs. OU game is one of the top 3 rivalries in the nation. My question for you is this, how can this be one of the top three rivalries in the nation when it isnt even the best rivalry for that team. I was looking up some facts to throw at you on the internet, such as opinions Americas view of the greatest rivalries in college football, and you know what consitently came up? UT vs. A&M. Over and Over again. you know what I didnt see. Not even one time. OU vs Texas.
Interesting that you would start off with this statement - "This whole argument started between us because you agreed with theOGRE who said that the UT vs. OU game is one of the top 3 rivalries in the nation."

Especially after stating this in your previous post - "Ha i love when people put words in my mouth."

Now if you could be so kind...please point out to where I said UT/OU is one of the top 3 rivalries in the country.

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Here is a quote since you are so fond of them.

Quote: "I haven't seen anything overshadow it. Both schools have tremendous numbers of alumni within the state who get very excited about this game. The loser has to take a beating all year." --Former Texas coach Darrell Royal.
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And lets think about this for a second. Switzer is being interviewed by a reporter about the game between OU and UT. Ya I defiantely see him saying, you know what that one is good but let me tell you about the one I had against Nebraska. Of course he is going to say how great that game is.
Need me to explain where I'm going with this one or do you want to call this a draw?

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Here is one of the top 10's I found
Here is another link for rivalries. Hey I see so well, would you tell me what #6 is?
Here is one I found. Can you tell me what #3 is?

But something tells me we could find a dozen links that would back both our sides.

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Here is one that I stumbeled across by accident

Let me give you some quotes from that:
Most college football observers--people who have been around the sport for much, if not most, of the 20th century--would probably say that the 1971 Thanksgiving Day classic, won 35-31 by Nebraska in Norman in a battle of #1 versus #2, ranks as the greatest college football game ever played. For nearly two decades after that game, the two teams almost always met with the Big Eight's Orange Bowl bid and a shot at the national title on the line. Tom Osborne and Barry Switzer were sideline fixtures in big games, the same way Bobby Bowden and Steve Spurrier are today.
I don't think anybody would question that game. However...it was just one game. Would it be fair if I said Texas/Arkansas was one of the greatest rivalries ever because of their matchup in '69?

In fact, here's a quote I ran across that talks about both games...

"Many would argue that the 1971 game between Nebraska and Oklahoma was the Game of the Century, but that was helped by the hype generated by this classic game. On the key pass play of the game, it was risky for head coach Darrel Royal to make the call, but it worked out perfectly. These were two evenly matched teams playing up to their full capabilities. They also did it with the whole world watching."

This is not to say UT/Arkansas ranks up there. Just pointing out that you used a bad example.

And I also agree about OU/Nebraska. It was/is a great rivalry in itself...just not bigger than Texas/OU.
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Old 10-07-2004   #22
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I offer a little more evidence (be prepared...it's long)...

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TRENT SMITH UNCENSORED: "I hate Texas"
By Trent Smith with T. Evans
Date: Oct 9, 2003

I hate Texas. Thatís right, I hate them. I always have and always will, because Iím a purebred Oklahoma kid. Itís just in my blood. Like a lot of Oklahomans, I was raised in a family of Sooner fans, but the only difference was that I was blessed and fortunate enough to get the chance to play for the team of my dreams. Most kids develop a love for their university while playing, but not me. I had it my first day on campus.

Growing up in Clinton, Okla., I idolized Brian Bosworth, Keith Jackson, Jamelle Holieway and Charles Thompson. That carried over to high school, so there was no doubt that Iíd be a Sooner. But I guess that didnít matter to Texas, because one day, an assistant of theirs showed up unannounced at my high school. When he came and got me out of class that day, I couldnít help but notice that his polo shirt had a Longhorn logo on it. Right then, I knew I wasnít interested, but since I was raised right, I listened to what he had to say. During that conversation, he asked me how I felt about playing for Texas and pointblank to his face, I told him ĎIím a Sooner sir, and I could never play for the University of Texas.í A few days later, then-Texas coach John Mackovic called and asked me to reconsider Texas. He told me the Ďeyes of Texas' were on me, so I responded by telling him, ĎIím going to OU, youíll see me soon enough.í And with that Texas never called me again.

My current roommate, Jarrett Johnson, who played defensive end at Alabama, recently asked me about Oklahoma State, Nebraska and Texas. He wanted to know which of one those schools is our biggest rival. I told him each one is different, because an in-state rivalry is just that, an in-state rivalry, so neither team likes each other, which isnít that big of a deal. As for Nebraska, thatís a rivalry formed out of pure respect for tradition and national championships, but Texas is a rivalry born out of pure emotion and hate. Itís funny, Texas fans have this acute arrogance about them, because they think everything is bigger and better in Texas. But itís not. In fact, thatís a joke. As an Oklahoman, Iíll never tolerate anybody, especially Texans, talking down to me, because of where Iím from.

My first trip to the OU-Texas game as a player came in 1998. I didnít play, because I was redshirting that year and we got our butts kicked 34-3. While I stood on the sidelines that game, Iíll never forget how bad the Texas fans wanted to kick us that year. The Texas fans were all drunk, which makes them even more obnoxious. They were throwing stuff at me, so I turned around and fired back with a couple cups of water. That didnít shut them up either, so J.T. Thatcher and I filled up a cup of our own spit and threw it on them. After that game, I kept telling myself to just wait until my class played Texas, because I knew weíd raise the sinking ship out of water.

That next year was Coach Stoopsí first season at OU and somehow Texas managed to beat us 38-28. That game was the first time I can ever remember hearing the Texas fight song, which I thought was kind of cool at first until they chanted ĎFight, Fight, OU Sucks.í That really ticked me off and got under my skin. A couple of weeks later, I was watching them play Texas Tech and they were still saying OU sucks. Thatís when I knew this rivalry was a lot bigger than I expected.

Hereís the deal about OU-Texas. Just getting to Dallas for the game is tough, because I-35ís so packed with cars that we usually have to drive on the shoulder with our police escort. But what most OU fans donít know is that as soon as we cross the Red River and see that ĎWelcome to Texas' sign, everybody on the team makes sure they flip it the bird. I think thatís pretty cool, because it shows that everyone is in this thing together.

When you arrive in Dallas, the Texas and Oklahoma fans are either screaming for you or cussing you. Theyíre either giving you the number one sign or throwing up the horns at you. And when you get out, all the Texas and Oklahoma fans are pushing each other. As you walk towards the locker room, there are thousands of Oklahoma fans everywhere. Theyíre all going nuts. It gives you goosebumps the second you step off that bus and they donít go away the whole game. Itís unbelievable. If you could bottle that feeling and sell it, youíd be a millionaire.

Let me tell you about ĎThe Tunnel' at the Cotton Bowl. Itís always hyped up to be this special walk down on to the field, but I was never that impressed with it. Maybe thatís because itís always filled up with Texas band people and that big cow, Bevo, which really stinks. By the way, whatís that supposed to symbolize? At least a Sooner has some type of historical name and value to it. Anyway, every time I walked past Bevo, Iíd always spit on him.

But the coolest thing about ĎThe Tunnel' is when you come out of it, because the OU fans in the top few rows on the tunnel side can see you coming out of the locker room before anyone else can. So when they see us, they get all fired up. Itís kind of like the wave, because it starts to echo throughout the stadium. By the time, you get to the field, itís deafening. I always threw the horn sign down when I came out and the OU fans would go nuts. It almost makes you cry. Itís one of the most religious experiences youíll ever have.

After losing to Texas in my first two years, I couldnít wait to play them in 2000. I wanted to destroy them. Hell, I wanted to make them bleed. All I could think about was that group of fans behind me in 1998. I wanted them to be there for this one. And sure enough, the game turned out exactly like I wanted. We smashed them 63-14. Josh (Heupel) had a great game and we were up 7-0 on Texas before ABC even switched to the game. It was great, because we beat them by the same number of points as we beat Baylor (56-7) that year. It was just one of those magic days that Sooner fans dream about. To hand Texas one of their worst losses in school history and the largest loss in the rivalry is special to an OU fan, an OU player, an OU kid and an OU woman. Itís so awesome, because you win that game and give the state a smile for 12 more months. I loved it. When you play against Texas, youíre not just playing for the team, yourself and the pride of the school, youíre playing for an entire state. Even OSU fans root for OU to beat Texas, because they donít like Texas either. Itís just not as big of a game for OSU as it is for us.

The 2001 game was another great one. We fought our butts off the whole game. On offense, we couldnít really get much together. We were moving the ball and running time off the clock, but we couldnít seem to get the ball in the end zone. But in the end, it took some good old-fashioned Sooner magic to seal the game. Roy (Williams) jumped like 10 feet in the air over some dude and the ball just kind of fluttered to Teddy (Lehman). Give me a break, that will never happen anywhere else or to any other team. Itís always Sooner magic. That whole game was Roy. The state of Oklahoma should have named a holiday for him after the way he played that game.

Iíve never been more fired up for any game than I was last season vs. Texas. I got so pumped that when I got off the bus, I threw down my playbook folder and it ripped. I also lost my pen that Iíd all season. My whole career at OU was like a storybook. I caught a touchdown pass against Texas last season and it winds up on the cover of Sports Illustrated. How much more perfect can it get than that? My career at Oklahoma couldnít have been anymore perfect, unless I got to catch the game-winner against Texas. But Iíd rather beat them by 11 points like we did last season, then have the game-winning catch against them. Texas is one of those teams you canít score enough points against. Anytime you get a chance to embarrass Texas, I say do it.

After last seasonís game, I planted the OU flag at midfield, which was another one of those unforgettable experiences. Then, I ran up into the stands. When I turned around, I noticed that everyone else did too. That was really special, because to spend time with the fans who love and cheer for us is a joy. Itís great to let them smell what you smell like, touch the jersey, grab the OU helmet and then watch us hoist it above their head. I donít care about Texas fans, but I love OU fans.

Iím not sure that Iíll be able to watch this yearís game. I tried to sit down, chill out and watch the Alabama game this year, but the second it came on, I was a nervous wreck. I think Iíll always be like that. I donít think that will ever go away. Iíll probably throw up when OU plays Texas this year, because Iíll be so nervous for our guys. I want them to play good and beat Texas so bad. The last four years, Iíve hand in that and I could do something about it. Now, Iíll be a thousand miles away and thereís not a single thing I can do to change it. Thatíll drive me crazy. Someone will drop a pass or Texas will get the momentum, and I wonít be down there on the sidelines to talk to the guys. I wonít be able to tell them to relax. Thatís someone elseís job now. Iíve had to pass the torch.

Iíve got a message for Texas this year: beat us first, then you can talk. Good luck with that. OU will win again this year. Our players care too much. I donít care what quarterback Texas has this year. Again, theyíre overrated this year, just like they are every year. It always seems like they start off number one in a couple of magazines every year, but you know all is right in the world when OU is number one in the polls that count. Iím not saying I donít respect Texas, because they have a ton of talent. Thatís why itís so sweet to beat them, because theyíre not a Baylor, Kansas or North Texas. To destroy them every year, just makes us look so much better.

A lot of people ask me about Mack Brown, but Iíve never really had an opinion about him. Whenever I thought we were going to hire him after Coach Blake was gone, I was excited, but Iím so happy we didnít. He wonít take risks like Coach Stoops. He just wonít do it. For instance, last year he downed the ball before halftime to run out the clock. Thatís something Coach Stoops would never do. Coach Stoops is in it to win it. Thatís part of our whole attitude. We reflect our coaches, so Mack Brown wouldnít have fit with us. Coach Stoops doesnít make excuses for his players. When we screw up in a game, weíre the ones that have to talk to the media about it. We donít shy away from that stuff and Mack does. Donít get me wrong, heís one heck of a coach, but I just think when it comes to playing us, Coach Stoops has a mental edge on him. To put it this way, I hung out with Chris Simms at the NFL Combine in February. Heís a great guy and even Chris had some bad things to say about Mack Brown. His actual words to me at the combine were ĎI just think our coach is scared of your coach.í That comes straight from the horseís mouth, so thereís really nothing else I can say about that.

My final words for Texas fans are these: I told you so. And Iíll tell you again, Texas wonít beat OU this year. I just wish I could find those fans from my freshman year and show them my national championship ring. How do you like that? I think Brian Bosworth said it best and Iíll say it again, ĎBurnt orange makes me puke.í Itís sick and so is Texas.
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Old 10-07-2004   #23
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So anyway off the topic of Nu vs. OU I would like to adress something else you said. I believe it went something like

"best receivers in USC history"

"Have you any idea of how dumb that sounds? Well, lessee...there's Keyshawn and then there's Mike Williams. That's two."

Well here is another link to show you "how dumb I sound saying that"
This is a link to the top 20 schools that produced the best wide recievers since 1970
I believe you will see that USC ranks number 4 on that list ahead of Ut or OU or about 110 other teams. Please do check that out so you can see some of the other "no names" they have produced. No Names like Lynn Swann and Keary Colbert.
Well, you posted a link so guess it's fact.

BTW, with their quantity combined with quality, I'd put Florida, Ohio State and Miami ahead of USC. They didn't even list Andre Johnson for Miami.

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Oh also GREAT Herbstreit quote. I really value his opinion especially since he said WISCONSIN had the greatest student section in all of college football. That guy will kiss the *** of absolutely any school he goes to.
So Herbstreit's opinion means squat but the boys over arches.uga.edu are concrete. Makes sense.

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And you are right the Notre Dame rivalry with USC is a great one because of the history of the two programs. But that in itself makes that game great.
Agreed. I just don't see what makes their rivalry unique. I mean I acknowledge the greatness of the rivalry because of what it's built on (the individual greatness of each school). But there's nothing unique about it. Know what I'm sayin'?

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Well I am ending with this:
I realise how big the game is to Texas fans because A&M hasnt given them a good game since the bondfire fell so they say OU is their biggest game of the year, and right now it is, but I GUARENTEE you if A&M repeatedly beat UT year in and year out the way UT has for the past decade, the biggest rivalry for UT would be A&M. You know why? Because that game has character. It is the game that decides who is the best team in Texas. I am tired of hearing UT fans say how they dont care about the game in college station but the one they are really worried about is at the Cotton Bowl. In college football every team no matter how good they are hits dry spells. The times will change in the years to come and you will see that A&M gets all of the recruits and UT is left 2nd in Texas. Just like it was in the 80's. When that happens we will see how big the UT OU game is.
You said earlier that a rivalry can't be decided over 4 or 5 years. Now you're using A&M's run in the 80's as an example. So are you now saying a rivalry can be built on one decade? Because outside of the 80's, there hasn't been much competition from the Aggies as far as the Horns are concerned.

Texas hold a 71-34-5 in this rivlary. Of A&M's 34 wins, 10 of them came between '84-'94 (out of over 100 years of playing each other). So what does that say about the other 90 years? During those other 90 years...who do you think represented Texas' biggest game?

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I am going to pack now because I am leaving in 6 hours to go watch our biggest rival in Athens
I feel your pain, brother. I'll be experiencing something similar this Friday.
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