Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2006   #1
Marcus
Hall of Fame
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Stafford, Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 7,660
Rep Power: 77992 Marcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Carr's attitude when he got benched

I'd like to point a perception . . or should I say misperception that some of you had regarding how Carr behaved on the sideline when he was benched. The TV showed shots of David standing there 'pouting', with his hands grabbing his pads. And from the those TV shots, some of you concluded that he was not being a team player, was self-centered, was not perticipating in discussions with Kubiak and Sage, etc, etc, etc.

Well, some of these 'perceptions' got to John McClain. His response to this, and his responses to posters in general, are some very interesting reading. I'll just paste a quote regarding David's attitude, and let y'all read the rest of it in the link.
Quote:
"Now, I'd like to shoot down some of your other posts: For those who complained about Carr's attitude after he got benched. Are you kidding me? You're watching what television shows. Carr shook Sage Rosenfels' hand. Carr did get into the sideline discussions a few times. Carr did interact with his teammates. We were there watching through binoculars. We weren't watching on television."
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #2
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
 
TexanSam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 17,071
Rep Power: 29758 TexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

I read that and I believe McClain. They showed Carr maybe 5 times with his hands holding his jersey. I didn't really see any pouting from Carr. He looked disappointed, but who wouldn't after being benched?
__________________

Thanks to Premier
TexanSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #3
Titan "Tack" Fan
Hall of Fame
 
Titan "Tack" Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ca$hville
Posts: 1,514
Rep Power: 44 Titan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respectedTitan "Tack" Fan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I'd like to point a perception . . or should I say misperception that some of you had regarding how Carr behaved on the sideline when he was benched. The TV showed shots of David standing there 'pouting', with his hands grabbing his pads. And from the those TV shots, some of you concluded that he was not being a team player, was self-centered, was not perticipating in discussions with Kubiak and Sage, etc, etc, etc.

Well, some of these 'perceptions' got to John McClain. His response to this, and his responses to posters in general, are some very interesting reading. I'll just paste a quote regarding David's attitude, and let y'all read the rest of it in the link.

My seats are 20 rows up on the visitors side. When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone. He didn't talk to Sage or motivate the offense. He just stood there. He actually had his helmet on the entire time, it was weird. He never took his helmet off.

The guy isn't a leader.
__________________
ADVENTURE, EXCITEMENT, A JEDI CRAVES NOT THESE THINGS
Titan "Tack" Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #4
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
 
TexansLucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Maryland
Age: 26
Posts: 4,770
Rep Power: 4279 TexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
My seats are 20 rows up on the visitors side. When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone. He didn't talk to Sage or motivate the offense. He just stood there. He actually had his helmet on the entire time, it was weird. He never took his helmet off.

The guy isn't a leader.
I have picture evidence that what you just said is not true. Your argument just lost steam, Tack fan. I think you were looking at the wrong person (assuming this isnt just a fabrication).
__________________
TexansLucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #5
Marcus
Hall of Fame
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Stafford, Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 7,660
Rep Power: 77992 Marcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Well, somebody's telling a flat out lie here.

I wonder who that could be.
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #6
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,229
Rep Power: 115090 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
My seats are 20 rows up on the visitors side. When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone. He didn't talk to Sage or motivate the offense. He just stood there. He actually had his helmet on the entire time, it was weird. He never took his helmet off.

The guy isn't a leader.
Funny how things translate in person v. television. Carr was the first one to congratulate Rosenfels after he threw a TD pass. As far as crossing his arms -many players pull their pads/ jersey down to get air..... in through the necks of their jersey..... Geeeez people!! :brickwall
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #7
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,229
Rep Power: 115090 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansLucky13 View Post
I have picture evidence that what you just said is not true. Your argument just lost steam, Tack fan. I think you were looking at the wrong person (assuming this isnt just a fabrication).
Okay Lucky - you beat me to the punch!
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 11-01-2006   #8
HOU-TEX 
Ah, Football!
 
HOU-TEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: P-land
Age: 43
Posts: 15,470
Rep Power: 112586 HOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
My seats are 20 rows up on the visitors side. When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone. He didn't talk to Sage or motivate the offense. He just stood there. He actually had his helmet on the entire time, it was weird. He never took his helmet off.

The guy isn't a leader.
You sat there and stared at DC every second for the remainder of the game?? That's odd. Are you a woman? Or is it manlove?
__________________
Kubiak: "They’re battling their tail off." Translation: They suck.
HOU-TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #9
Marcus
Hall of Fame
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Stafford, Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 7,660
Rep Power: 77992 Marcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
As far as crossing his arms -many players pull their pads/ jersey down to get air..... in through the necks of their jersey..... Geeeez people!! :brickwall
Mario Williams does the very same thing when he stands on the sidelines.
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #10
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
 
TexansLucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Maryland
Age: 26
Posts: 4,770
Rep Power: 4279 TexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansLucky13 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Okay Lucky - you beat me to the punch!
Haha, I just responded when I noticed how blatantly incorrect it was. Like you said.... he didn't have his arms crossed either. He ALWAYS has his hands holding onto the V-neck of his jersey.
__________________
TexansLucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #11
bah007
Hall of Fame
 
bah007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,513
Rep Power: 72205 bah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
My seats are 20 rows up on the visitors side. When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone. He didn't talk to Sage or motivate the offense. He just stood there. He actually had his helmet on the entire time, it was weird. He never took his helmet off.

The guy isn't a leader.
You must be right. I'm sure you were watching the offense going over strategy on the sideline during plays while our defense was on the field.
bah007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #12
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,229
Rep Power: 115090 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
You sat there and stared at DC every second for the remainder of the game?? That's odd. Are you a woman? Or is it manlove?

Are you a woman? Or is it manlove??
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #13
run-david-run
Hall of Fame
 
run-david-run's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The University of Texas
Age: 25
Posts: 3,370
Rep Power: 1331 run-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to run-david-run
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Am I the only one who hates how the media tries to create drama? Every time Sage did something good (TD's) or something bad (pick, punt) they immediately showed Carr on the sideline. Maybe they should focus on the players in the actual game instead of trying to create a story.
__________________
Andre Johnson is The Answer
run-david-run is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #14
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
 
TexanSam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 17,071
Rep Power: 29758 TexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanSam is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Am I the only one who hates how the media tries to create drama? Every time Sage did something good (TD's) or something bad (pick, punt) they immediately showed Carr on the sideline. Maybe they should focus on the players in the actual game instead of trying to create a story.
They do the exact same thing with Terrell Owens. Focus on the game CBS, Fox, NBC, ESPN and every other media outlet!!
__________________

Thanks to Premier
TexanSam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #15
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Am I the only one who hates how the media tries to create drama? Every time Sage did something good (TD's) or something bad (pick, punt) they immediately showed Carr on the sideline. Maybe they should focus on the players in the actual game instead of trying to create a story.
Hmmm....Ratings....or satisfying run-david-run....

that's a tough one....
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #16
joedinkle
Veteran
 
joedinkle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 256
Rep Power: 60 joedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respectedjoedinkle is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
My seats are 20 rows up on the visitors side. When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone. He didn't talk to Sage or motivate the offense. He just stood there. He actually had his helmet on the entire time, it was weird. He never took his helmet off.

The guy isn't a leader.

It's Wednesday. What are you still doing on our boards? Is there nothing to discuss on the Titans' board? We don't need you here to insult the leader of our team. Buzz off.
joedinkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #17
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
My seats are 20 rows up on the visitors side. When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone. He didn't talk to Sage or motivate the offense. He just stood there. He actually had his helmet on the entire time, it was weird. He never took his helmet off.
The guy isn't a leader.
What do you want the guy to do??? Who get's benched and then prances around on the sideline like every thing is hunky-dory??? Who does that?? Who have you ever seen get yanked, and act like nothing happened ??? Be serious....

And he may have had his helmet on to listen to what was going on....

That is a silly reason to say he isn't a leader....

me....I think he's not a great leader for other reasons...
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #18
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 47
Posts: 30,855
Rep Power: 316914 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I'd like to point a perception . . or should I say misperception that some of you had regarding how Carr behaved on the sideline when he was benched. The TV showed shots of David standing there 'pouting', with his hands grabbing his pads. And from the those TV shots, some of you concluded that he was not being a team player, was self-centered, was not perticipating in discussions with Kubiak and Sage, etc, etc, etc.

Well, some of these 'perceptions' got to John McClain. His response to this, and his responses to posters in general, are some very interesting reading. I'll just paste a quote regarding David's attitude, and let y'all read the rest of it in the link.
Thanks for posting, Marcus.

When McLain talks about "posts", I assume he means comments to his blog and not the forum? Just curious if ol' John is a lurker (as I'm sure some of the 610 guys are hiding in the bushes around here...hi Lance & John!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone.
Oh.My.Gawd!!! He CROSSED his ARMS?!! Only chumps and sore losers do that. Body language is everything.

Obviously, I'm just yanking your chain, bro'. You are one of the cooler Titans fans on the board.

I was wondering about the television shots during the game. I swear I saw the same shot being used over and over, even with a guy behind DC eating a hot dog over and over again. Maybe the network - being the soulless corporate types they are - is trying to foment a little controversy...
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #19
HJam72
Hall of Fame
 
HJam72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Over here.
Age: 41
Posts: 11,514
Rep Power: 72200 HJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

When I saw him he was climbing into the stands and buying beer from the vendors. I'm not sure if he's s'posed to do that, but he seemed kinda happy to me.
__________________

HJam72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2006   #20
Blake
MMQB
 
Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Spring
Section: 551
Posts: 10,788
Rep Power: 73433 Blake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respected
Thumbs down Re: Carr's attitude when he got benched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan View Post
My seats are 20 rows up on the visitors side. When he got benched and for the rest of the game he stood on the sidelines with his arms crossed and didn't speak to anyone. He didn't talk to Sage or motivate the offense. He just stood there. He actually had his helmet on the entire time, it was weird. He never took his helmet off.

The guy isn't a leader.
How do you come to OUR board, and just flat out lie like that!?

Do you realize how damaging this is to your overall reputation?

I guess not...
Blake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger