Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

Doody · 10-25-2006

I just want to throw this out there:
I'm not in favor of it, but with all the people arguing about Mario Williams being best suited for a 3-4, is going back to a 3-4 really out of the question? Anthony Weaver was supposed to be one of hte best run stoppers at DE in a 3-4 as a Raven, and if Mario really has the potential to excel as a pass rusher DE in a 3-4, would that maybe beworht taking a look at? I know Travis Johnson isnt a fan, but could Maddox or anyone play NT? Orr is best in a 3-4 as well, and Wong and Ryans might be a good combo as MLBs...I think peek would still be effective on passingdowns

I was just thinking that maybe it would be worth a look...before Kubiak purges the leftover 3-4 guys after this season. At least it would be interesting, caues regardless of our failures with it, alot of people have used it to their advantage.

Anyway, I'm really not advocating this, i'd rather stock up on real 4-3 guys, but thought itd be interesting

bah007 · 10-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doody

I just want to throw this out there:
I'm not in favor of it, but with all the people arguing about Mario Williams being best suited for a 3-4, is going back to a 3-4 really out of the question? Anthony Weaver was supposed to be one of hte best run stoppers at DE in a 3-4 as a Raven, and if Mario really has the potential to excel as a pass rusher DE in a 3-4, would that maybe beworht taking a look at? I know Travis Johnson isnt a fan, but could Maddox orr anyone play NT? Orr is best in a 3-4 as well, and Wong and Ryans might be a good combo as MLBs...

I was just thinking that maybe it would be worht a look...before Kubiak purges the leftover 3-4 guys after this season. At least it would be interesting, caues regardless of our failures with it, alot of people have used it to their advantage.

Anyway, I'm really not advocating this, i'd rather stock up on real 4-3 guys, but thought its be interesting

Our best NT would prob be Payne, but he is done. I dont think anyone else is really suited for it and that would be bad cuz it might be the most important position in a 3-4

texflex513 · 10-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doody

I just want to throw this out there:
I'm not in favor of it, but with all the people arguing about Mario Williams being best suited for a 3-4, is going back to a 3-4 really out of the question? Anthony Weaver was supposed to be one of hte best run stoppers at DE in a 3-4 as a Raven, and if Mario really has the potential to excel as a pass rusher DE in a 3-4, would that maybe beworht taking a look at? I know Travis Johnson isnt a fan, but could Maddox or anyone play NT? Orr is best in a 3-4 as well, and Wong and Ryans might be a good combo as MLBs...I think peek would still be effective on passingdowns

I was just thinking that maybe it would be worth a look...before Kubiak purges the leftover 3-4 guys after this season. At least it would be interesting, caues regardless of our failures with it, alot of people have used it to their advantage.

Anyway, I'm really not advocating this, i'd rather stock up on real 4-3 guys, but thought itd be interesting

I am not opposed to having the 3-4 if we had someone like dick labeau (sp)
or crennel to run it. Im sure dunta, mario, weaver and demeco would do well in it, the rest of the guys? im not so sure.

the wonger need food · 10-25-2006

We don't have the athletic OLB's or Safeties to run an effective 3-4. (See 2005 Houston Texans defense)

El Tejano · 10-25-2006

I say, let the current system run its course. Looks like the players are catching on a bit, weed out the ones we don't need from the previous system.

Plus why would we want to run something with our current players that didn't work for 3 years.

ATX_Texan · 10-25-2006

I am a little confused here. First, Casserly tried to build a 3-4 defense for 4 years and we were told they never could get the right people to run it.

Now, after investing in even more on the DL in free agency and the draft, we don't have the right people for running a 4-3 either and we should go back to the the 3-4?

Something does not sound right about all of this. I think the problem was that Casserly could not find people with the ability to play in any kind of a defense. Now, the Texans are forced to build a defense from scratch. There won't be any quick fix and switching schemes won't help. I for one would feel better if our defensive coordiantor inspired more confidence in his abilities. However, I guess the FO will have to try correct these problems over time.

Dime · 10-25-2006

WHOA... I just thought of a Scary thought.. Imagine this.

Weaver - Johnson - Williams

Babin - Ryans Wong - Peek

That would be a cool and nasty front 7. I like.

run-david-run · 10-25-2006

Except Peek and Babin are still bad in coverage and have gained weight in order to play DE. Mario has never played in a 3-4, neither has DeMeco. TJ is not a nose tackle. I say stick with the D that has pretty much improved with every game and will continue to improve. We are on the right track, lets just give it some time.

TexansSeminole · 10-25-2006

Doubt this will happen or we will even add a 3-4 scheme. We need to continue drafting players that fit the 4-3 scheme.

TexansLucky13 · 10-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dime

WHOA... I just thought of a Scary thought.. Imagine this.

Weaver - Johnson - Williams

Babin - Ryans Wong - Peek

That would be a cool and nasty front 7. I like.

6 Games into the season and everyone is already bailing on the 4-3? Whats the deal?? In the off-season everyone thought this was the best idea in the world.

Como?!

**HOU-TEX** · 10-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansLucky13

6 Games into the season and everyone is already bailing on the 4-3? Whats the deal?? In the off-season everyone thought this was the best idea in the world.

Como?!

Not I! I've never really been fond of the 3-4. I think the Texans D is getting better and will probably continue to get better.

alphajoker · 10-25-2006

Wasn't Richard Smith going to implement a little of the 3-4 defense during the season?

Roughnecks · 10-26-2006

leave it alone didn't we see enough flip flopping last year let these guys get use to one scheme plus as it has been said before we do not have the personnel for it and the guys seem to be happy with 4-3. Once we our safeties start playing every week and can count on them, then we can throw some different looks at them but as of now they are still learning and trying to get bond together.

phan1 · 10-26-2006

The coaches have almost no experience in the 3-4, especially our Dline coach. Not point in switching now, even if we do have the personnel.

10-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleRedToro

Maybe if we play a team that is extremely run oriented we could see some 5-2 alignment in the game. That would be from left to right: Jason Babin, Anthony Weaver, Travis Johnson, Mario Williams, and Antwan Peek, with Demeco Ryans, and Kailee Wong behind them.

If we came out in that alignment with that personnel....You don't think the opposing team would just audible ???

TexansSeminole · 10-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleRedToro

There is no MIGHT about it. The NT is the most important position in the 3-4. I also think that Travis Johnson, Maddox and possibly Dalton could play NT. If not I'm sure they could find somebody to play NT. I don't think it would be a bad idea, but I have another idea as well. Maybe if we play a team that is extremely run oriented we could see some 5-2 alignment in the game. That would be from left to right: Jason Babin, Anthony Weaver, Travis Johnson, Mario Williams, and Antwan Peek, with Demeco Ryans, and Kailee Wong behind them.

We'd get burned in a 5-2 with those guys everytime, except maybe on the goal line.

Grid · 10-26-2006

I think we should stick with the 4-3 and start building around that. We have some key elements in place already with Ryans and Williams.

And Williams is not MORE suited for a 3-4. really we spent too much money on him for him to be a big body that fills holes. He is big and athletic, that is about where his similarity to a 3-4 lineman ends.

If you think about it.. we are pretty close to having 4-3 personel. Most of our guys are suited to either style of defense, and Peek and Babin, while not necessarily suited to it.. are still qualified to be pass rush specialists and rushers on passing downs.. which most 4-3 defenses have.

And Babin actually looked like he could possibly be a starter at 4-3 DE.

threetoedpete · 10-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dime

WHOA... I just thought of a Scary thought.. Imagine this.

Weaver - Johnson - Williams

Babin - Ryans Wong - Peek

That would be a cool and nasty front 7. I like.

No it wouldn't. The only point of attack TJ could ever hope to hold is the stake on his dinner plate. With Payne gone, TJ is fixin to be exposed big time. It looks fine on paper but I don't think we'll be switching back baring a string of more inuries. I never could figgure out over the first four years why the organization never would draft a true NT. I do have a problem of throwing in the towel on Mario this early. Took Keith Bullock three seasons to get on line. I think we should give Mario a little time also. He's still just a babe.

sleepwalker · 10-27-2006

No question some great D's run the 3-4 and have success...For me personally, I dream of the day when our front 4 is so solid that they can put pressure on QB's and stuff the run by themselves without blitz help.

We do have a Dime or Nickel package that uses only 3 down linemen, the infamous *prevent* defence...I don't think I have seen that but once or twice in 3 weeks, thank god...After that Oilers loss to the Bills, I would just assume never see this play called again in Houston.

HJam72 · 10-27-2006

In my opinion, we're all going to realize someday, when he has experience in this league and really knows what he's doing, that what Mario Williams is really perfect for is RDE in the 4-3, just like he was used in college. I look at him and, even if I didn't know about the college stuff, I see 4-3 DE written all over him. If he puts the heart and effort into it, he's going to be a sack tabulating machine from that position one day and I'm talking about serious numbers. I don't see him as a 3-4 player. He's not stocky enough to be one of the 3 DLs in a 3-4 (although he may be big enough, just too lanky and tall) and he's just a tad too slow to be a LB in the 3-4.

Who's the guy (excuse my useless memory--Sean something I think) who played DE for the Oilers and then went to GB and helped them win a SB. When I look at Williams, I see him--only bigger, faster, and with a huge wingspan. We're talking serious upside at that position. That's why I kind of don't like him playing inside (not in the long run), even though we have Peek (and Babin). He can play inside (in a 4-3 only IMO), but it's not where he can become GREAT.

10-25-2006	#1
Doody Rookie Join Date: Aug 2006 Age: 27 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it I just want to throw this out there: I'm not in favor of it, but with all the people arguing about Mario Williams being best suited for a 3-4, is going back to a 3-4 really out of the question? Anthony Weaver was supposed to be one of hte best run stoppers at DE in a 3-4 as a Raven, and if Mario really has the potential to excel as a pass rusher DE in a 3-4, would that maybe beworht taking a look at? I know Travis Johnson isnt a fan, but could Maddox or anyone play NT? Orr is best in a 3-4 as well, and Wong and Ryans might be a good combo as MLBs...I think peek would still be effective on passingdowns I was just thinking that maybe it would be worth a look...before Kubiak purges the leftover 3-4 guys after this season. At least it would be interesting, caues regardless of our failures with it, alot of people have used it to their advantage. Anyway, I'm really not advocating this, i'd rather stock up on real 4-3 guys, but thought itd be interesting

10-25-2006	#4
the wonger need food Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston Age: 43 Posts: 2,534 Rep Power: 1085	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it We don't have the athletic OLB's or Safeties to run an effective 3-4. (See 2005 Houston Texans defense)

10-25-2006	#5
El Tejano Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 9,748 Rep Power: 6842	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it I say, let the current system run its course. Looks like the players are catching on a bit, weed out the ones we don't need from the previous system. Plus why would we want to run something with our current players that didn't work for 3 years.

10-25-2006	#6
ATX_Texan Veteran Join Date: May 2005 Location: The 512, ATX Posts: 125 Rep Power: 8	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it I am a little confused here. First, Casserly tried to build a 3-4 defense for 4 years and we were told they never could get the right people to run it. Now, after investing in even more on the DL in free agency and the draft, we don't have the right people for running a 4-3 either and we should go back to the the 3-4? Something does not sound right about all of this. I think the problem was that Casserly could not find people with the ability to play in any kind of a defense. Now, the Texans are forced to build a defense from scratch. There won't be any quick fix and switching schemes won't help. I for one would feel better if our defensive coordiantor inspired more confidence in his abilities. However, I guess the FO will have to try correct these problems over time. __________________ You're thinkin' like a fool 'cause it's a case of do or die - Judas Priest

10-25-2006	#7
Dime Hall of Fame Join Date: May 2004 Age: 42 Posts: 1,377 Rep Power: 12	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it WHOA... I just thought of a Scary thought.. Imagine this. Weaver - Johnson - Williams Babin - Ryans Wong - Peek That would be a cool and nasty front 7. I like. __________________ You can get more with a 2 by 4 and a kind word then just with a kind word.

10-25-2006	#8
run-david-run Hall of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The University of Texas Age: 24 Posts: 3,370 Rep Power: 1329	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it Except Peek and Babin are still bad in coverage and have gained weight in order to play DE. Mario has never played in a 3-4, neither has DeMeco. TJ is not a nose tackle. I say stick with the D that has pretty much improved with every game and will continue to improve. We are on the right track, lets just give it some time. __________________ Andre Johnson is The Answer

10-25-2006	#9
TexansSeminole Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 25 Posts: 6,854 Rep Power: 10437	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it Doubt this will happen or we will even add a 3-4 scheme. We need to continue drafting players that fit the 4-3 scheme.

10-25-2006	#12
alphajoker Hall of Fame Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,519 Rep Power: 2429	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it Wasn't Richard Smith going to implement a little of the 3-4 defense during the season?

10-26-2006	#13
Roughnecks Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lumberton Texas Age: 36 Posts: 334 Rep Power: 89	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it leave it alone didn't we see enough flip flopping last year let these guys get use to one scheme plus as it has been said before we do not have the personnel for it and the guys seem to be happy with 4-3. Once we our safeties start playing every week and can count on them, then we can throw some different looks at them but as of now they are still learning and trying to get bond together.

10-26-2006	#14
phan1 All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 29 Posts: 650 Rep Power: 9	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it The coaches have almost no experience in the 3-4, especially our Dline coach. Not point in switching now, even if we do have the personnel.

10-26-2006	#17
Grid Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,299 Rep Power: 2271	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it I think we should stick with the 4-3 and start building around that. We have some key elements in place already with Ryans and Williams. And Williams is not MORE suited for a 3-4. really we spent too much money on him for him to be a big body that fills holes. He is big and athletic, that is about where his similarity to a 3-4 lineman ends. If you think about it.. we are pretty close to having 4-3 personel. Most of our guys are suited to either style of defense, and Peek and Babin, while not necessarily suited to it.. are still qualified to be pass rush specialists and rushers on passing downs.. which most 4-3 defenses have. And Babin actually looked like he could possibly be a starter at 4-3 DE.

10-27-2006	#19
sleepwalker Veteran Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 40 Posts: 167 Rep Power: 7	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it No question some great D's run the 3-4 and have success...For me personally, I dream of the day when our front 4 is so solid that they can put pressure on QB's and stuff the run by themselves without blitz help. We do have a Dime or Nickel package that uses only 3 down linemen, the infamous prevent defence...I don't think I have seen that but once or twice in 3 weeks, thank god...After that Oilers loss to the Bills, I would just assume never see this play called again in Houston.

10-27-2006	#20
HJam72 Hall of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Over here. Age: 40 Posts: 10,472 Rep Power: 18004	Re: Our 4-3 Defense and the personel running in it In my opinion, we're all going to realize someday, when he has experience in this league and really knows what he's doing, that what Mario Williams is really perfect for is RDE in the 4-3, just like he was used in college. I look at him and, even if I didn't know about the college stuff, I see 4-3 DE written all over him. If he puts the heart and effort into it, he's going to be a sack tabulating machine from that position one day and I'm talking about serious numbers. I don't see him as a 3-4 player. He's not stocky enough to be one of the 3 DLs in a 3-4 (although he may be big enough, just too lanky and tall) and he's just a tad too slow to be a LB in the 3-4. Who's the guy (excuse my useless memory--Sean something I think) who played DE for the Oilers and then went to GB and helped them win a SB. When I look at Williams, I see him--only bigger, faster, and with a huge wingspan. We're talking serious upside at that position. That's why I kind of don't like him playing inside (not in the long run), even though we have Peek (and Babin). He can play inside (in a 4-3 only IMO), but it's not where he can become GREAT. __________________ Last edited by HJam72; 10-27-2006 at 05:36 AM.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Remove advertisements Sponsored links