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Old 10-22-2006   #1
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Default Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html

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Perhaps the most revolutionary twists: Despite being groomed by Davis in a vertical passing game, Walsh decided to stretch secondaries horizontally as well, forcing slower linebackers and safeties into coverages. He believed in throwing on any down, with the simple four-yard pass replacing many of the rushing plays, and he understood that if bigger receivers were able to break just one tackle, one of those four-yard passes could become a 20-yard gain.
People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.
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Old 10-22-2006   #2
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

That is why I have never wasted my time repling to all the negative comments on Carrs short passes. I've grown up watching this offense with the Broncos. Some people are just too ignorant to know what the WC offense is all about. Not trying to name call just trying to prove how missinformed some are.
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Old 10-22-2006   #3
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html

People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.
I think they are doing the short dump routes to make the linebackers play honest since we donb't have a credible running game.
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Old 10-22-2006   #4
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

Carr didn't throw down the field last year either and we weren't running the west coast offense then. So what's there to chew on?
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Old 10-22-2006   #5
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Carr didn't throw down the field last year either and we weren't running the west coast offense then. So what's there to chew on?
He had DD to throw dump offs to.
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Old 10-22-2006   #6
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html



People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.
yes, the short passes are a cornerstone of the West coast offense. However, you also mix in a few deep balls as well. If you never throw deep, the Defense can stack the box and your a) either having the QB run for his life b) unloading lots of 2 yard passes, or c) See a and b.
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Old 10-22-2006   #7
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

Carr has played pretty well this year, and yes I am a fan but he missed a couple of TE down the middle today.
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Old 10-22-2006   #8
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

He also hit one of them for a TD.
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Old 10-22-2006   #9
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Carr didn't throw down the field last year either and we weren't running the west coast offense then. So what's there to chew on?
There isnt a name for the "offense" (and I use that term loosely) that was run last year because it was so horrendous. You cant blame Carr for last year at all.
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Old 10-22-2006   #10
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html



People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.
Carr took two big shots downfield. One was intercepted, and we got lucky. The other was that touchdown..... so I don't know.

I admit that I too criticize David for not stretching the field. If the passing game is going to open the running game, it's the throws that stretch the field, that is going to do it. the short passes, force the defense to play where we don't want them, closer to the line, making it more difficult to run the ball. We need the deep pass to back them up.

Now I was cussing Carr all game, because I thought the reason we got Moulds was to force one on one coverage, and challenge that coverage, thinking we should win more times than not.

That doesn't appear to be in Carr's makeup, or he just hasn't got used to Molds just yet. I say this because I see AJ & Moulds running in single coverage often from 608.

Then I got to thinking...... every now and again, you'll see Peyton, Palmer, or McNabb making some tight throws..... but most of the time, ReggieWayne is wide open. Reggie Brown is Wide open, who'sYourMamma is wide open...

& that's because of play design. Why would anybody ever leave Westbrook uncovered?? Play design... The LB/Safety has to make a decision, and neither is ever a good decision.

I haven't seen any of our plays that do the same thing... except that bootleg OwenScored his 3rd touchdown on.... (2 rookies on our team combine for 4 touchdowns..... wow. 3 out of the passing game, 1 out of the running game... what more could anyone expect from the '06 draft??)

I understand the play action gets that for us, but I think we need to draw up some plays that attack the LB/Safety.
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Old 10-22-2006   #11
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
He also hit one of them for a TD.
Carr could have easily had 300 yards and 4 touchdowns today.....

if our guy does catch the ball that is.

I'm not knocking on Carr, but there were some opportunities downfield.... several times, when we'd motion Andre, Eric would be in the slot covered by a LB, and we wouldn't go there.

And I'm fine with that, thinking that will come later on, as Carr gets more & more comfortable behind his OLine.
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Old 10-22-2006   #12
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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There isnt a name for the "offense" (and I use that term loosely) that was run last year because it was so horrendous. You cant blame Carr for last year at all.
Carr is looking allot better this year. I won't take that away from him, but he still need to throw the ball down the field. You don't necessarily have to complete those passes, but you have to make the throw. It loosens up the LB and DB to create running lanes. Every the teams who run the West Coast offense, like Seattle, Denver and Green Bay, take shots down the field.

Oh, and to say Carr is blameless for last years horror of a season is nuts. Yes, Casserly is to blame, Capers and the coaching staff is to blame, and so is every player on that team.
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Old 10-22-2006   #13
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

Let's not forget that he did throw that 35 yd. TD to AJ, although that was just mostly AJ making a play because it could have been a pick if it were some lesser talented receiver.

It is true that he's probably not throwing the longer attempts often enough, but he is doing some and, with the exception of trying to force it last week against Dallas when nothing else would work, he's not throwing interceptions.

As far as missed opportunities goes, I'm sure he probably did miss some and I'm also sure that Moulds is getting open more often than that, but if Carr found all those open passes every time and passed for 400 yd. games he'd be the best QB in the world--and nobody's saying that he is. We're just glad he's playing well, as in average or better.
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Old 10-22-2006   #14
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

It also seems that Carr is not 'bailing' out of the pocket as quick and is actually throwing the ball down field just before he gets hit, instead of taking a sack---talking about that lob pass that he over threw down the side line to Andre(?).
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Old 10-22-2006   #15
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Carr took two big shots downfield. One was intercepted, and we got lucky. The other was that touchdown..... so I don't know.

I admit that I too criticize David for not stretching the field. If the passing game is going to open the running game, it's the throws that stretch the field, that is going to do it. the short passes, force the defense to play where we don't want them, closer to the line, making it more difficult to run the ball. We need the deep pass to back them up.

Now I was cussing Carr all game, because I thought the reason we got Moulds was to force one on one coverage, and challenge that coverage, thinking we should win more times than not.

That doesn't appear to be in Carr's makeup, or he just hasn't got used to Molds just yet. I say this because I see AJ & Moulds running in single coverage often from 608.

Then I got to thinking...... every now and again, you'll see Peyton, Palmer, or McNabb making some tight throws..... but most of the time, ReggieWayne is wide open. Reggie Brown is Wide open, who'sYourMamma is wide open...

& that's because of play design. Why would anybody ever leave Westbrook uncovered?? Play design... The LB/Safety has to make a decision, and neither is ever a good decision.

I haven't seen any of our plays that do the same thing... except that bootleg OwenScored his 3rd touchdown on.... (2 rookies on our team combine for 4 touchdowns..... wow. 3 out of the passing game, 1 out of the running game... what more could anyone expect from the '06 draft??)

I understand the play action gets that for us, but I think we need to draw up some plays that attack the LB/Safety.
Carr knew there was pass inteference on the play, so he gave it a toss, to see what would happened. Next one he put some hight on it and trusted his WR, end of story , Carr had a great game AGAIN against another top ranked Defense.
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Old 10-22-2006   #16
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Carr could have easily had 300 yards and 4 touchdowns today.....

if our guy does catch the ball that is.

I'm not knocking on Carr, but there were some opportunities downfield.... several times, when we'd motion Andre, Eric would be in the slot covered by a LB, and we wouldn't go there.

And I'm fine with that, thinking that will come later on, as Carr gets more & more comfortable behind his OLine.
Step by step, brick by brick. Before this season started, we all would have been incredibly happy and surprised to see Carr playing this well. Kubiak is still working with him and he'll continue to make improvement.

I really expected Carr to look really bad the first few games of this season. So I'm just tickled battle red by his play.
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Old 10-22-2006   #17
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

I think the 3rd Qtr. is meaningless too.
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Old 10-22-2006   #18
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html



People criticize Carr and his short throws..Well isn't that what the West Coast offense does?

now if we need to criticize the Texan offense.. they can't beat a cover 2.
Well, I have been yelling until I'm blue in the face why we should be doing this. Its nice that someone else recognizes what the 49ers use to do. Actually they used the attack to set up the run later in the game. You pass until the other team believes you are going to do nothing, but pass the ball. At that point you can effectively run the ball and that's what happened today. When Carr, AJ, Walters, and Moulds started having an effect, they relaxed on the run and Lundy had some fun. When it was crunch time and we tried to move the ball we were generally ineffective. They knew what was coming.

If you go to game quotes you will see a reference to Moulds and how he blocked 3 guys to spring Lundy. People have no idea how valueable this guy is. He helps in so many areas, but he probably will never get the billing of AJ or others. He's an older player with a lot of savvy. He knows how get it done. If he imparts just have his wisdom on our receivers we will be a force to reckon with. Oh,yes Kubiak did give him the game ball today for his 700 reception. Only 23 others have done that. I think Kubiak understands the other part of what he does very well.
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Old 10-22-2006   #19
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

I don't have too much of a problem with the short passing game, as it kind of works like a running play. 3-4 yd gains aren't too bad. But you have to at least gain yardage. No gain on those short passes are what's infuriating. I also just blew a gasget when he did it on 3rd and long. What the hell!!! Another stupid dunk pass to Cook on 3rd and long?!? INFURIATING!

I'd atually like to see the quick lateral to AJ again. The first db is never able to make a tackle on him, and it's usually an easy 5 yd gain. Anybody remember those days?
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Old 10-23-2006   #20
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Default Re: Chew on this: Carr and his short passing game

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Step by step, brick by brick. Before this season started, we all would have been incredibly happy and surprised to see Carr playing this well. Kubiak is still working with him and he'll continue to make improvement.

I really expected Carr to look really bad the first few games of this season. So I'm just tickled battle red by his play.
I completely & totally agree. I'm not complaining, just saying.

HJam72 was trying to minimize a good observation by Tayton, & I was just backing Tayton up.

I'm seeing these little pieces starting to line up, and I like what Kubes is cooking. But to lose focus & say, "See David's the greatest" is weak. We should all expect David to continue to progress, or we'll end up with a Bledsoe 10 years from now, still thinking that he can win the big game if we could just get him enough time.......
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