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Old 10-21-2006   #1
Cheroqui
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Default Mario Mario... what to do?

Ok folks help me out on this one. I have been watching these games and I cannot see every-thing. But is it me or does Mario Williams only know one way? Why is it that when I do lock my eyes onto him he seems to just take a curling arc to try and get to the QB? Does he ever try to fight and come back to the inside??? I just see him go forearm up to forearm like some pre Kung-Fu chi and flow ritual before sparring. Maybe that's why he seems to be to the outside when you do see him get to somebody; usually on a run stop, because he's never on the inside.

Have we ever tried shifting him in and out at DT?, and do you think it would help or force him to "pick a lane" or gap to get in on more plays?
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Old 10-21-2006   #2
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

I've typed this before but to me...but Williams looks like a prototype 3-4 end. Tall, athletic, strong but rangy enough and has plenty of speed on the edge to battle wco te/fb screens and short action to the flats. He doesn't seem to be a natural pass rusher, but you don't need to be one if you run the 3-4. Oh the irony. Anthony Weaver looks more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE too.
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Old 10-21-2006   #3
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I've typed this before but to me...but Williams looks like a prototype 3-4 end. Tall, athletic, strong but rangy enough and has plenty of speed on the edge to battle wco te/fb screens and short action to the flats. He doesn't seem to be a natural pass rusher, but you don't need to be one if you run the 3-4. Oh the irony. Anthony Weaver looks more like a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE too. imo of course
I can agree with that, and I even think Weaver is our best tackle. Mario on the other hand, looks more like ChrisCanty & MarcusSpears, than he looks like JasonTaylor or OsiUmenyiora.

Mario's stats even show him to be more of a run stopper, than a pass rushing DE back at NCState, where he played inside as much as he played outside the line.

that said, I think he had an awesome game against Dallas, going outside, and rushing inside from the DE position. He forced some bad throws from Bledsoe, and forced Bledsoe to throw the ball away on several occasions. Given time, I think he'll be exactly what GK is saying he will be, but right now, his instincts are more run oriented.

yes he still makes rookie mistakes, the play where the tightend pinched him into the RT, for JJ's long run, and many of the run plays to his side vs Washington. But he's alos shown flashes of greatness, where he split coverage, and got JJ in the backfield, where came from the weakside to lay a hammer on JJ one yard past the LOS....... & my favorite, where he pushed the triple team into the rushing lane, forcing JJ to the outside, where he eventually got stopped for no gain. The man is going to be a monster, I have no doubt.
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Old 10-21-2006   #4
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

Great post Thunderkyss! I also think Super Mario will be a great player but will take some time! It's sad that some posters here thinks he IS ALREADY a bust bcuz he hasn't had 20 sacks yet @ this point of his career!
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Old 10-21-2006   #5
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

He hasn't learned to use his hands very well yet. For a comparison watch 44 , the DT with Florida. He uses his hands very, very well. The tallent level has caught up with Mario. He can no longer just be raw and dominate. Give it time. If he's coachable, IMHO ,with all respect to Vinny, it's not a tallent issue. It's a technique issue. He gets his hands play down he will be a monster. Gotta be patient.
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Old 10-21-2006   #6
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

I think Mario needs to be meaner, more aggressive. I don't know if a killer instinct can be coached into a player, or if they just have it. Only time will tell.

Our front four should be a lot more of a pressence than we've seen so far.
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Old 10-21-2006   #7
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
He hasn't learned to use his hands very well yet. For a comparison watch 44 , the DT with Florida. He uses his hands very, very well. The tallent level has caught up with Mario. He can no longer just be raw and dominate. Give it time. If he's coachable, IMHO ,with all respect to Vinny, it's not a tallent issue. It's a technique issue. He gets his hands play down he will be a monster. Gotta be patient.
I'm not saying he isn't talented. Nothing wrong with being a prototype 3-4 end....On draft day they gave us their reasoning and it was his rush off the edge....well, it's early but he isn't a big time edge rusher. I just think that Mario is more of an ideal fit for our old scheme (for instance Richard Seymour is a hell of a player, he just isn't a big time edge rusher) ....if you don't run a 3-4 you have a bit of a mismatched piece imo.
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Old 10-21-2006   #8
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I'm not saying he isn't talented. Nothing wrong with being a prototype 3-4 end....On draft day they gave us their reasoning and it was his rush off the edge....well, it's early but he isn't a big time edge rusher. I just think that Mario is more of an ideal fit for our old scheme (for instance Richard Seymour is a hell of a player, he just isn't a big time edge rusher) ....if you don't run a 3-4 you have a bit of a mismatched piece imo.

Well, I agree that he hasn't shown himself to be a big time edge rusher yet, but I'm not seeing him in my image of a 3-4 DE either...

Good Lord! I think I'm about to call Mario a tweener!

Although he has the ability to take up blockers the way you might like in a 3-4 DL, his pursuit along the line of scrimmage is starting to look more and more like a 4-3 DE to me. But your right, not much of an edge rush up to this point.

In the Dallas game, which IMO is easily Mario's best game, he looked a lot more comfortable, and natural in his assignments. I liked his pursuit, as I said, on a few plays at least.

Lined up at LE, he chased the RB (Jones, I think) down from behind on a rush off (offensive) LT by penetrating and pursuing behind the LOS.

On another play, lined up as RE, he stood his man up, read the play, flowed behind the line on the D side, and stopped a run off the (offensive) RT.

He also had a (looked like solo, but not sure if it was credited as one) open field tackle on Terry Glen down field, maybe 10 or 12 yards.

I think he is really coming on, getting more instinctive, and his aggressiveness is starting to come to the surface.
Sure, there are and will be some rookie misreads and mistakes, but I really like what I'm seeing, personally.
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Old 10-21-2006   #9
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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Great post Thunderkyss! I also think Super Mario will be a great player but will take some time! It's sad that some posters here thinks he IS ALREADY a bust bcuz he hasn't had 20 sacks yet @ this point of his career!
I hope that wasn't reference to me. I know it will take time for him, just like a Strahan who you didn't hear about for a long time until he started doing his thing. I am still wondering if he will tried to fight back to the inside when he can. Plus what his production would be like if he is at DT with more than one choice other than "swing around".
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Old 10-21-2006   #10
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
He hasn't learned to use his hands very well yet. For a comparison watch 44 , the DT with Florida. He uses his hands very, very well. The tallent level has caught up with Mario. He can no longer just be raw and dominate. Give it time. If he's coachable, IMHO ,with all respect to Vinny, it's not a tallent issue. It's a technique issue. He gets his hands play down he will be a monster. Gotta be patient.
Both Jevon Kearse, and Darren Howard were criticised for their lack of Technique when they came into the league. I believe they all but disappeared in Tennessee, and N.O. because of that lack of technique. Putting them both together with Superior talent in Philly is going to revitalize both of their carreers.

I'm not arguing the fact that Mario needs to work on his technique. In fact, I agree if he is to be the player we need him to be, for the next 10 years, he is going to have to work on his technique.

But what is really hurting Mario right now, is TJ, Greenwood, Orr, Dunta, Sanders, & Brown.
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Old 10-21-2006   #11
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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Well, I agree that he hasn't shown himself to be a big time edge rusher yet, but I'm not seeing him in my image of a 3-4 DE either...

Good Lord! I think I'm about to call Mario a tweener!

Although he has the ability to take up blockers the way you might like in a 3-4 DL, his pursuit along the line of scrimmage is starting to look more and more like a 4-3 DE to me. But your right, not much of an edge rush up to this point.
A DEs job in the 3-4 isn't just to take up blockers. He has to be a threat to get penetration, forcing the double team, and still provide a push up the middle, so the OLBs can do their thing. We should have taken a player like ChrisCanty or Marcus Spears(who are more like Mario than they are like TJ) to play DE. Instead, we get guys like RobairSmith, and TJ, who should be NTs if anything in the NFL.

With Mario, Weaver, and N.D. Kalu, we now have better 3-4 DEs than we've ever had.

JasonBabin, ShanteeOrr, CharlieAnderson would look good on the strongside.

Peek, Greenwood, Ryans, would play well on the weekside.

Wong, Polk, Ryans, & I might even try Jason Simmons at the ILB spots.


But to take Mario with the #1 overall to play the DE in a 3-4 doesn't make any sense at all.
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Old 10-21-2006   #12
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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I hope that wasn't reference to me. I know it will take time for him, just like a Strahan who you didn't hear about for a long time until he started doing his thing. I am still wondering if he will tried to fight back to the inside when he can. Plus what his production would be like if he is at DT with more than one choice other than "swing around".

Cheroqui- oh no, it's just general & partly sarcasm- mostly directed towards trolls & fairweather fans ! I think you are a diehard TEXANS fan!! The Strahan comparison is a good one!
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Old 10-21-2006   #13
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

mario right now is just a real raw talent...he has the ability to be like julius peppers...he really does...the only problem is right now he is being double teamed most of the time...sometimes they put a TE, OT, and a RB on him during passing downs...so he isn't getting the single man blocking him to start using some of his pass rushing moves...remember in order to be a good pass rusher in this league you have to be able to set up your moves

with that in mind...travis johnson who i have defended on this board numerous times needs to step up...his rep coming out of college was that we was a ruthless talent in the middle of the line that was in the mold of warren sapp...a one gap pass rushing DT...we are almost half-way in year two with him and he still looks like he did his rookie year in the 3-4...unable to get to the passer...so travis really needs to start coming with it...cause right now i don't see the mean attitude i was looking forward to with him

weaver and the rest of the guys just need to make things happen since they are not getting the double team
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Old 10-22-2006   #14
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

i think our pressure will step up and play better, especially against a hobbled qb. i think that the d-line, including mario, has been playing better, but they need to play consistently for the entire game. jmo.
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Old 10-22-2006   #15
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

he had one assist ,one sack and a recovered fumble. no tackles or assists.

that is what shows in the stats.

I made a point to watch him on some plays.seemed he was giving the #74 some trouble when matched up on him (when I watched him it was late in 4th)

Last edited by Wolf; 10-22-2006 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 10-22-2006   #16
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

The sack was a joke too...without that, its no tackles - no assists and he has to be the luckiest guy on the planet....Leftwich falls down because of bad footing on the sack and that fumble rolls right to him.
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Old 10-22-2006   #17
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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he had one sack and a recovered fumble. no tackles or assists.

that is what shows in the stats.

I made a point to watch him on some plays.seemed he was giving the #74 some trouble when matched up on him (when I watched him it was late in 4th)
yahoo sports said he had a assit tackle, 1 sack, and 1 fumble recovery.
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Old 10-22-2006   #18
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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yahoo sports said he had a assit tackle, 1 sack, and 1 fumble recovery.
good catch.
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Old 10-22-2006   #19
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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The sack was a joke too...without that, its no tackles - no assists and he has to be the luckiest guy on the planet....Leftwich falls down because of bad footing on the sack and that fumble rolls right to him.
on the sack someone had to get it.

the fumble, I watched him on that.. he got knocked down and he got back up and went toward the pile.. was just a hustle play ..
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Old 10-22-2006   #20
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Default Re: Mario Mario... what to do?

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The sack was a joke too...without that, its no tackles - no assists and he has to be the luckiest guy on the planet....Leftwich falls down because of bad footing on the sack and that fumble rolls right to him.
well take whatever we can get. Most importantly, he was a member of a defense that only gave up 7 points, forced 2 turnovers and forced almost as many punts as points allowed, not bad.
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