Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-27-2004   #41
TheOgre
Hall of Fame
 
TheOgre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Back in the cellar again
Posts: 3,739
Rep Power: 17 TheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVP
Default

He has been downright dreadful in the 1st quarter this year. It used to be the 4th quarter that he fell apart. It seems like Carr made a deal with the Devil in the offseason to move his normally atrocious 4th quarter play to the 1st quarter.

This week really highlighted how valuable Wiegert is. We were unable to plug in Washington or Weary with good results. Hopefully by next season Pitts and Wand will be "comfortable" in their new positions and contribute more. I just hope that the left side of our line will be better than the right side in a couple of years. Carr was running for his life and won inspite of a horrible rushing attack and aggressive pass-rush.
TheOgre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #42
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,451
Rep Power: 218553 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
This week really highlighted how valuable Wiegert is. We were unable to plug in Washington or Weary with good results...
Shaun Rogers used Wiegert as a turnstile before Zach went out with an injury. All of these guys are poor pass blockers. That Wiegert is a good run blocker is what gives him the edge.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #43
utahmark
markbeth
 
utahmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: utah
Age: 44
Posts: 2,002
Rep Power: 11734 utahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respectedutahmark is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbat00
When you look at his play on paper, it doesn't look so bad. But, my impression of the game as a whole, has him needing to be more consistent and less predictable in staring down his favorite receiver of the drive. Try looking off secondaries, try pump faking, and don't make bad decisions.
Memo to the O-line, TRY PROTECTING THE QUARTERBACK!!!!!!!!!

i can see it now. anouncer speaking "carr drops back in the pocket carr looks right. carr looks left. ohhhhh!!! he's nailed." or heres one. "carr drops back. he looks right. he pump fakes. booooom!!!!! someone wanna give him back his helmet."
utahmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #44
HJam72
Hall of Fame
 
HJam72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Over here.
Age: 42
Posts: 11,573
Rep Power: 80496 HJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Maybe we should train an RB to throw the ball and let Carr stand in the pocket as a decoy, lol.
HJam72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #45
Texansbacker
Veteran
 
Texansbacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 201
Rep Power: 11 Texansbacker is ridin' the pine
Default

The person I saw getting manhandled in the front was Steve McKinney and I was very disappointed. His little brother with the Dolphins who is their starting center looks much more powerful and determined as a blocker. Until McKinney starts to hold his blocks then the Texans will have problems protecting Carr. It all starts in the middle and I hope that McKinney starts pulling his weight.
Texansbacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #46
TheOgre
Hall of Fame
 
TheOgre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Back in the cellar again
Posts: 3,739
Rep Power: 17 TheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Shaun Rogers used Wiegert as a turnstile before Zach went out with an injury. All of these guys are poor pass blockers. That Wiegert is a good run blocker is what gives him the edge.
I won't argue the fact that Wiegert is a marginal pass-blocker. He might be our best run blocker, though, and he is still a bit better at pass-blocking then the two guys we threw in there.

We weren't able to establish the run without him. It resulted in a domino effect. Without us having a viable rushing attack, the Chiefs were able to pin their ears back and go after us. A game like this really illustrates why we try to focus on establishing the run early and often. We just don't have the line to sit back and pass all day.

This was against the Chief's defense for crying out loud!! Just wait until the Raiders front seven gets ahold of us.
TheOgre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #47
Keldar
Veteran
 
Keldar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 351
Rep Power: 11 Keldar is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
i can see it now. anouncer speaking "carr drops back in the pocket carr looks right. carr looks left. ohhhhh!!! he's nailed." or heres one. "carr drops back. he looks right. he pump fakes. booooom!!!!! someone wanna give him back his helmet."

With our pass protection, you are probably correct.

What was I thinking????????
Keldar is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 09-27-2004   #48
aphia1996
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Age: 45
Posts: 45
Rep Power: 0 aphia1996 is ridin' the pine
Send a message via Yahoo to aphia1996
Default Okay start...nothing great but didn't lose it for us!

I think D.Carr had a good game not a great game but he did lead the team down the field when the game was on the line and he didn't cause them to lose it with turnovers. I do hope the line steps up and starts giving him a little more time....THE DOWN GOES CARR, DOWN GOES CARR by the broadcasters was pointing out the fact that he just doesn't get the time he really needs and I think that is why he hasn't had the zipp on the ball he needs sometimes. As for A.Johnson's catches, what can you say....GREAT JOB on both parts...David for getting the ball up there and Johnson for bring it in. The bottom line is the fact that he has yet another fourth quarter comeback(5) for his career and it is good that he is able to do that but I am looking forward to the days when we are kicking tail and don't need those comeback to win!!!

Geaux TEXANS and TIGERS,

James H.
Baton Rouge, LA
aphia1996 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #49
keyfro
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 31
Posts: 1,859
Rep Power: 14 keyfro was voted MVPkeyfro was voted MVPkeyfro was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to keyfro
Default

as far as carr's play thus far...i must say he has been ify to put it nicely...he starts the games horribly but finishes nice...he needs to be more concistant and be nice throughout the entire game...starting 0-7 with an int is just plan bad...something i would expect a 7th round rookie to start...and i know a lot of people will argue whether or not carr should have been benched his rookie year like pennington and palmer...personally i think to bring in a rookie QB that you are making your franchise QB is to start him a few games into his rookie season...but that's just me...but back onto carr...i think by the time the season gets to the halfway mark we will see carr really blossum to the QB we have wished he would become...but so far he has been horrible...anytime you have more int's then td's your horrible
__________________
With the 10th overall pick in the 2007 NFL draft the Houston Texans select...?????
keyfro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #50
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,451
Rep Power: 218553 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyfro
...but so far he has been horrible...anytime you have more int's then td's your horrible
NFL Starting QBs sacked on average of 2X or less/game - 61 TDs 32 INTs

NFL Starting QBs sacked on average of over 2X/game - 43 TDs 41 INTs

NFL Starting QBs sacked on average of over 3X/game - 10 TDs 15 INTs

On average, David Carr is sacked 3.33 times a game. Now that's horrible.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #51
wags
Hall of Fame
 
wags's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: TX and FL
Age: 36
Posts: 1,601
Rep Power: 23 wags is a Hall of Famerwags is a Hall of Famerwags is a Hall of Famerwags is a Hall of Famerwags is a Hall of Famerwags is a Hall of Famerwags is a Hall of Famerwags is a Hall of Famerwags is a Hall of Famer
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyfro
as far as carr's play thus far...i must say he has been ify to put it nicely...he starts the games horribly but finishes nice...he needs to be more concistant and be nice throughout the entire game...starting 0-7 with an int is just plan bad...something i would expect a 7th round rookie to start...and i know a lot of people will argue whether or not carr should have been benched his rookie year like pennington and palmer...personally i think to bring in a rookie QB that you are making your franchise QB is to start him a few games into his rookie season...but that's just me...but back onto carr...i think by the time the season gets to the halfway mark we will see carr really blossum to the QB we have wished he would become...but so far he has been horrible...anytime you have more int's then td's your horrible
Horrible? Carson Palmer and Ken Dorsey are horrible. However, by your definition of horrible, Carr is in good company with Steve McNair (1td, 2Int). I would love Carr to be as horrible as McNair.
__________________
A good argument is always spoiled by someone who knows what they're talking about
wags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004   #52
powda
Hall of Fame
 
powda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,348
Rep Power: 130616 powda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respectedpowda is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

i think thirdeyebc hit the nail on the head a page or so back...on a post you guys paid no attention to in a mad dash to torch carr.

carr missed at least 1 day of practice this week with the flu. in the 1st quarter his timeing was clearly off. he was consitently behind his reciever before adjusting and then overthrowing most of his passes. by the end of the game he settled down but never played great. what he did do was give the team a chance to win.

on his interception : carr was on the move, under pressure, and threw a pass his reciever slipped on and never fought for.

as for his previous interceptions in the season? lions game...didnt see it all --- no comment. san diego? 2 ints. 1 batted ball. 1 pass in wich he had a lineman rolling up his ankle. do the math. how many int's is carr REALLY responsible for this season?

(back to kc)

did some of you guys forget we lost davis early on in the game and never had a serious running threat the defense had to respect?

as for the offensive line this year and in this game?

a. new line coach
b. new scheme
c. new left tackle (wand)
d. new left guard (pitts)
e. new right tackle (wade)
and f. todd washington/weary at right guard for the kc game who are clearly not ready to start.

what do you expect carr to do with 2.5 seconds? read the defense, pick a reciever, throw the ball, and stay on the move? if you had visions of a superbowl type o-line this season you need to lose those delusions in a hurry. as long as thats the case carr can only be judged unfairly. you guys need to relax about carr. this team has enough legitimate issues to worry about without conjuring new ones...
__________________
Each year, there are more than 40,000 toilet related injuries in the United States.

Last edited by powda; 09-28-2004 at 12:18 AM.
powda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004   #53
ArlingtonTexan
Moderator
 
ArlingtonTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 47
Posts: 6,079
Rep Power: 73193 ArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

My bottomline overall on Carr right now.

He will not be a bust, but he won't be a regular put you on his back guy either. Carr is in the Jake Plummer, Kerry Collins mold of QB. will at times look like the real thing and can even have really good years here and there, but makes enough mistakes and inconsistent enough to keep out from breaking into that top level of QB. (favre, Manning, etc)

Just what i see right now..I think I will have pretty strong opinion by the end of this year if he stays healthy and hopefully will adjust this upward at that time.
ArlingtonTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004   #54
jacquescas
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 1,323
Rep Power: 12 jacquescas is ridin' the pine
Default

From what i have seen of Carr, the few times he has had the time to make plays, he could be the occasional pro-bowler who makes 3 or 4 over the course of 10 years. Its all in the offensive line. Look up and down the line and look past the "potential" and look at the production. Wand is in his first year starting, and he is just in his second season. Was supposed to be a long term project isn't exactly anchoring the line. Pitts has had a harder time transitioning over to the guard spot than i expected. McKinney is average, as is weigart. Wade is the only player on the line with any real skill, but he is much better run blocker than pass blocker. I'm almost sure that Farve or Manning would have made more bad decisions if they had that line blocking for them. We need to premier offensive lineman on this team. Either a high first round pick or a top free agent. Once Carr has time, not only will we be able to fully evaluate him, but the system will be in place if he is not deemed worthy, and his successor can step into a fully complete and functional offense.
jacquescas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004   #55
geekster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: El Cajon, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0 geekster is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquescas
From what i have seen of Carr, the few times he has had the time to make plays, he could be the occasional pro-bowler who makes 3 or 4 over the course of 10 years. Its all in the offensive line. Look up and down the line and look past the "potential" and look at the production. Wand is in his first year starting, and he is just in his second season. Was supposed to be a long term project isn't exactly anchoring the line. Pitts has had a harder time transitioning over to the guard spot than i expected. McKinney is average, as is weigart. Wade is the only player on the line with any real skill, but he is much better run blocker than pass blocker. I'm almost sure that Farve or Manning would have made more bad decisions if they had that line blocking for them. We need to premier offensive lineman on this team. Either a high first round pick or a top free agent. Once Carr has time, not only will we be able to fully evaluate him, but the system will be in place if he is not deemed worthy, and his successor can step into a fully complete and functional offense.
Funny you should mention Farve and Manning. Farve wasn't very good his first few years in the league - Mannings first year was horrible - and you should read what Troy Aikman has written about his first year or three of getting the heck beat out of him.

Each of them eventually got the knack of making teams *PAY* for blitzing them - particularly after their receivers caught on to reading/reacting to the blitz. If you watched the Packers/Colts game - you saw to MASTERS at beating the blitz embarassing heck out of two pretty good defenses.

What I'm getting at is David Carr is doing just about right for this stage of his career, all things considered. He is going to be one of the elite ones in years to come - appreciate what he is going through now and say "I was there when" later on.

Warm Regards from San Diego,
-=geekster=-

p.s. Congrats on the WIN!
__________________
So many toys... So little time...
geekster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004   #56
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
 
Carr Bombed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wherever the US govt. sends me
Posts: 13,998
Rep Power: 114011 Carr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Why are we even talking about Carr right now and putting him over the stove, he is the least of our problems right now. In case you haven't noticed, that is a 8 on his chest and not a S. No Carr can't leap defenders with a single bound and hes only going to be as good as his line is allows him to be and to be honest I'm actually surprised that he has done as good as he has with the time that he has been allowed to throw. He got sacked 5 times in detroit and about 5 times in KC, I'm not sure how many times he got sacked in th SD game (started drinking heavily, that one tore me up) so I'm just going to say 5 times, it'll make the math eseir. At that average he will have a 80 sack season and is on pace to break his own record. That is sad and is unexcusable. I watch the sunday night game and the monday night game tonight. One thing I caught myself saying was "Man our line has never blocked like that" or "Damn Carr hasn't ever had that much time to throw". You are right though Carr will never be a elite QB unless we fix this problem and fix it fast, because there is one thing that all great QBs have and that is a great offensive line. We have a NFL team but not a NFL line, at least not right now. They need to get their **** together because they are going to get somebody hurt. I bet there is lineman in retirement that can play better. We need to call Lincoln up, get him off total access and stick hiss *** back there!! I think we need to spend our draft picks solely on d & olineman.
__________________
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’

- Edmund Burke
Carr Bombed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004   #57
edo783
Site Contributor
 
edo783's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, again.
Posts: 7,708
Rep Power: 4641 edo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

The truly sad thing is, if we don't fix the line issue pretty soon, we may in fact ruin David for the rest of his career. Once the happy feet, shell shocked thing gets in grained it is VERY hard to get rid of.
__________________


De Oppresso Liber
edo783 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004   #58
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
 
Carr Bombed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wherever the US govt. sends me
Posts: 13,998
Rep Power: 114011 Carr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respectedCarr Bombed is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I know I've said that same exact thing before. I really see no excuse for the olines play so far this season. They not only can't stop my grandma from knocking David out of his shoes, but the amount of penalties they commit is ridiculous. It just shows a lack of discipline and laziness. These guys have one job and that is to protect the QB. They need to step it up and do their job.
__________________
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’

- Edmund Burke
Carr Bombed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004   #59
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,838
Rep Power: 14626 El Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I haven't been impressed with Carr's statistics, especially TD to INT ratio thus far but I have been impressed with his leadership. To me you are going to win alot more games with a guy like Carr as your QB especially has he gets more games under him. We were beat in Detroit yet this guy was still firing like we could come back, and he could've just lost it after creating yet another turnover on our first possession of this game and going 0 for his first 6 passes. Yet he kept it together and contributed with a TD throw on a drive that started deep in his own territory. Carr is just getting warm. We will see some better games from him and I am thinking this will happen soon.
El Tejano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2004   #60
carrtex
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 32
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 0 carrtex is ridin' the pine
Default Carr

David Carr is going to be the real good as long as he gets better o-line protection. Simple as that.The man just needs more time to see his receivers so he can make better throws.I will put no blame on Carr until he gets better protection. EVERY QB in the league would be putting up the same numbers.
carrtex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger