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Old 09-26-2004   #21
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I agree that the roughing call was bad. But we got screwed last week on a call like that that negated an interception. It happens.

KC fans must feel like Astro fans did in June. Nothing is going their way after being a favorite to win it all. After Super Bowl IV the Chiefs have sorta been like the Oilers if you think about it. Tons of talent and nothing to show for it. We feel your pain Kansas City.
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Old 09-26-2004   #22
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Carr was brutal in the 1st quarter. I was concerned there might be something wrong with his arm, that's how bad he was. But despite a viscous pass rush, David hung in there and made plays when he had to. And that's really the story for the whole team today. The QB gets too much credit when they win, too much blame when they lose. Carr plays his worst game of the year, and the Texans get their 1st win. Let's hope they can get another next week and get the guy a haircut.
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Old 09-26-2004   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1521
While Mr. Carr is certainly a great young QB, the way he way babied by the referee was total bs. The Texans were handed the game with bogus personal fouls for roughing (tackling) Carr. I have not seen a referee go so far out of his way to protect a QB since Jerry Markbriet held John Elway's hand in helping him to the playoffs. Too bad such a good game was marred by such over officious official.
I knew that if we ever heard from KC fans, they'd be griping about the officiating. The Chiefs played an extremely undisciplined game and deserved every penalty that I saw them get. I think there was one "roughing the passer" call where I never saw the act in question. Vermiel needs to discipline his team and shut up about the referees. He also needs to see the truth when Johnson makes a spectacular catch, because he even disagreed with that call. The ball never hit the ground and Johnson only lost it when he held it straight up and squeezed it too hard with one hand--several seconds later.
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Old 09-26-2004   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1521
While Mr. Carr is certainly a great young QB, the way he way babied by the referee was total bs. The Texans were handed the game with bogus personal fouls for roughing (tackling) Carr. I have not seen a referee go so far out of his way to protect a QB since Jerry Markbriet held John Elway's hand in helping him to the playoffs. Too bad such a good game was marred by such over officious official.
This is a bunch of ****. Get real. :hehe:
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Old 09-26-2004   #25
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Carr does not look comfortable in the pocket, it is as clear as day to see. When they does have time he is good, but that pocket closed fast a majority of the time. As far as the int goes, I think that Carr (Palmer) were just trying to game plan this game fore on the players ability to make plays rather than forcing to check down. Carr threw the ball to a man who could make the play but he just slipped and fell down. I see no problem so far in Carr throwing INT's. The line has a lot more to do with it than anything on Carrs side.
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Old 09-26-2004   #26
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An 80 QB rating isn't going to be good enough but our offensive line played very poorly. We have to find a way to get better protection for Carr.
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Old 09-26-2004   #27
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When you look at his play on paper, it doesn't look so bad. But, my impression of the game as a whole, has him needing to be more consistent and less predictable in staring down his favorite receiver of the drive. Try looking off secondaries, try pump faking, and don't make bad decisions.

Memo to the O-line, TRY PROTECTING THE QUARTERBACK!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-26-2004   #28
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I wanted to get mad at him but you can't. There is no way that you can evaluate a QB when his O-line sucks that bad. He ran for his life on every play. I think all things considered, he did pretty well. Room for improvement of course but until he gets that line he won't get anywhere.

Need to focus on that line!!!
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Old 09-26-2004   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
It was bad! They were literaly on his face everytime he throws. That line look so good in paper! What the hell happened?
I'm definitely NOT making excuses for the crummy O-line, but The Chiefs were pinning their ears back and coming today cuz we had no running game. It appears they let their linebackers take care of the running back, shadowing their every move.

It doesn't help that our Offensive Tackles remain in a 2 point stance on pass plays, virtually broadcasting a pass play to the nation. It doesn't take a gifted defensive line to bull rush the QB when everybody in the stadium knows a pass is coming.
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Old 09-26-2004   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbat00
I'm definitely NOT making excuses for the crummy O-line, but The Chiefs were pinning their ears back and coming today cuz we had no running game. It appears they let their linebackers take care of the running back, shadowing their every move.

It doesn't help that our Offensive Tackles remain in a 2 point stance on pass plays, virtually broadcasting a pass play to the nation. It doesn't take a gifted defensive line to bull rush the QB when everybody in the stadium knows a pass is coming.
The line play was sickening. But I would like to see Carr hit one of the receivers on a quick inside slant against some of those blitzes. Once the Texans/Carr demonstrate that continued blitzing will result in a foot race against AJ or Bradford, we will see some of that blitzine ease up.
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Old 09-26-2004   #31
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Carr played great, but I still don't get why people just want him to sling it every down. This isn't a West Coast offense guys! It would be stupid to let him throw the ball every down, especially when the KC D-line is breathing down your neck. As long as I don't see us trying to run the ball in 3rd and ten, keep it balanced. As a QB, you take what you can get. Carr played great and did the best with what he had.
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Old 09-26-2004   #32
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I was in the stands....4 rows up, right by the end zone, and GOOD LORD, quit the David Carr bashing. No, he's not the smoothest one in the batch. They threw, ran, and hit us, with there best offensive gameplan. And lo and behold, WE WON. When the game was over, said and done, we had the higher score. Over-analyze, over-"calculate", and then...when youre done with that ****, ENJOY THE WIN!!!!
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Old 09-26-2004   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_in_KS
I was in the stands....4 rows up, right by the end zone, and GOOD LORD, quit the David Carr bashing. No, he's not the smoothest one in the batch. They threw, ran, and hit us, with there best offensive gameplan. And lo and behold, WE WON. When the game was over, said and done, we had the higher score. Over-analyze, over-"calculate", and then...when youre done with that ****, ENJOY THE WIN!!!!
Sherlock: this is an online message board. Overanalyzing is what posters do. What do you want everyone to do? "Woot" for the next week? I am glad they won, but the message board fun is to analyze play and personnel. Without that you'll just have a dead board.

That said: it is annoying when people spend an inordinate portion of their posts dissing Carr without giving him props for the good plays he makes. Every QB makes mistakes. Carr recovered from his and helped win the game.
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Old 09-26-2004   #34
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I agree with MARCUS, when Carr has an O-LINE worth it's salt...then we can analogize him all we want. Never in his brief (2yrs. 3 games) career has Carr had the time that the other great QB's have. HIS O-LINE needs to PROTECT him, that can't be such a hard concept to follow, after all that's why they are paid the BIG money. It was as great a football game as I can remember. Sometimes you win "Pretty" (so to speak) and sometimes it's "ugly" and today it was a little of both. Nothing like a game like that to get your juices flowing. I hate the games I fall asleep on the couch watching because I'm so board. Not to say, I wouldn't take one or two of those this year in our favor. My money's on Carr when we improve our O-line, until then, it's just not a fair examination.
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Old 09-26-2004   #35
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In my first comments I said what a wonderful QB David Carr is and what a shame it was that the Referee called such a ticky tack game on both sides. Coach Vermiel went out of his way during his post game comments to compliment the Int. and run back. He is the first to admit the Chiefs need to fix the penalties. The Officials need to learn the art of the no-call. David Carr threw a couple of unreal passed that God itself couldn't break up. Finally, if the shoe fits.... The Officials called a very ticky tack game and cost both teams. The Back Judge is and old man who was calling game when George Halas was playing. In his comment to Dick Vermeil, Dom Capers said, "great game, sorry the refs(jobbed) you so bad". Congratualation to the Texans, an outstanding franchise.
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Old 09-26-2004   #36
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That challenge was an obvious one. A long pass late in the game where possession is in question will always get challenged. I am quite sure Coach Capers would have done the same, or should have. The Chiefs deserved every call, yet you saw one roughing where you "never saw the infraction" Which is it? You got the call and it was the right call, so what do you care.
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Old 09-26-2004   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon
This is a bunch of ****. Get real. :hehe:
In my first comments I said what a wonderful QB David Carr is and what a shame it was that the Referee called such a ticky tack game on both sides. Coach Vermiel went out of his way during his post game comments to compliment the Int. and run back. He is the first to admit the Chiefs need to fix the penalties. The Officials need to learn the art of the no-call. David Carr threw a couple of unreal passed that God itself couldn't break up. Finally, if the shoe fits.... The Officials called a very ticky tack game and cost both teams. The Back Judge is and old man who was calling game when George Halas was playing. In his comment to Dick Vermeil, Dom Capers said, "great game, sorry the refs(jobbed) you so bad". Congratualation to the Texans, an outstanding franchise. Think it is a bunch of ***** check the Broncos game tapes with Markbreit and ask Dan Fouts about him. He is still mad about the Holy Roller-another Markbreit Gem.
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Old 09-27-2004   #38
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carr looked bad to me ... and the line looked even worse. we should be able to hold a 4 man rush long enough to throw the ball. enough with the screens and sending 5 men out on pass patterns, we need to work on making carr the focal point of the offense which means giving him time to throw to someone without running to the sidelines first. our rb needs to hit someone before he heads up field and we need to keep the tightend on the line more often. our front 5 are getting beat, which is inexcusable, but we've gotta change to compensate for that up front, not with running the qb.

as for carr though, he just looked bad IMO. almost everything he threw was either off target or a floater that our receivers saved him on. he doesnt see receivers, he sees the rush and he's not going to progress until that changes. i hoped he'd be past being "gun shy" this season but that apparently hasnt happened yet as the only passes he completed from the pocket were where he dropped back and floated it to aj. the only pass i saw where he set his feet and threw was at the end to armstrong and it was a laser right on target. carr's got the ability, there's no doubt, but i've yet to see him play at his potential. until he decides he's ready to go through his progressions, plant his feet, and throw ... he wont be the arm we need.
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Old 09-27-2004   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1521
That challenge was an obvious one. A long pass late in the game where possession is in question will always get challenged. I am quite sure Coach Capers would have done the same, or should have. The Chiefs deserved every call, yet you saw one roughing where you "never saw the infraction" Which is it? You got the call and it was the right call, so what do you care.
Yeah, Capers probably would've challenged that catch, but he would'nt have been so ticked on the sideline, after he saw the replay showing it was an obvious catch. On the "roughing the passer" call that I didn't see the infraction, I never saw anything because they just didn't show it.

How do you know what Capers said to Vermiel after the game?
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Old 09-27-2004   #40
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Carr didn't have his most spectacular day, but he was QB enough to get the job done. Perhaps there was some luck, but I think the Chiefs were an accident waiting to happen. Let's give Mr. Carr some credit for a couple of awesome runs as well.
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