Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2006   #1
[[Gary Kubiak]]
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

No trade Value with both of them. RDE is a weakness and neither Babin or Peek is stepping up. Odd are we pick up a true 4-3 DE in 2007 and either Babin or Peek stays as back up.

IMHO, RDE is a position that is completely non productive in both passrush and run defense.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2006   #2
nunusguy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,991
Rep Power: 184 nunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by [[Gary Kubiak]] View Post
Odd are we pick up a true 4-3 DE in 2007
We didn't do that this year ?
In all seriousness, we may not have in fact picked up a 4-3 DE this year
with our #1 pick.
I haven't seen V lately, but he made a cogent observation on another thread
recently when he said that Mario was really a "3-4" DE.
IMO, there's a lot to that.
nunusguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2006   #3
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,265
Rep Power: 150172 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
We didn't do that this year ?
In all seriousness, we may not have in fact picked up a 4-3 DE this year
with our #1 pick.
I haven't seen V lately, but he made a cogent observation on another thread
recently when he said that Mario was really a "3-4" DE.
IMO, there's a lot to that.
I could definitely see him as a 3-4 DE, Weaver as well, who IMHO has produced more from the DT position for us.

But in a 4-3, I think Mario will do well, once all this #1 pick stuff dies down a bit. & Babin or Peek as the other end( Babin playing either side, with Mario or Kalu& Peek on the Weekside with Mario or Kalu), is comparable IMHO to having a Kearse or Freeney on the starting line.

Babin IMHO has been getting good pressure & Peek as well on passing downs. Right now, I think it's kinda difficult to say for sure, what we've got at DE. we swap them in & out so much, then it looks like every play is about getting the passer, that we really don't know how they will play together, and for a complete game.

If I were on the coaching staff, I'd decide on who my starting lineup would be, and play that line for most of the game. These guys have got to learn to play with each other, just as much as the LBs need to learn to play with each other, and the group in front of them, and the DBs have to learn to play with each other, and the group in front of them.

you keep changing that front four, & the LBs have to address the Line differently every down, never getting a good read on the line, or the RBs/TEs.

I also mentioned it looks like we're rushing the QB everydown, which leads us to overrun the RB, and the screens way too often. Against Miami, we were more balanced, and played the run much better.
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2006   #4
run-david-run
Hall of Fame
 
run-david-run's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The University of Texas
Age: 25
Posts: 3,370
Rep Power: 1330 run-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respectedrun-david-run is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to run-david-run
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Our problem so far has been that we all to often have Weaver and Mario as our two defensive ends. With that line-up we are never gonna get to the QB because we have no speed. We need to leave Mario at LDE, Weaver/TJ/Payne at DT and Babin/Peek at RDE. Stop moving people around right now, wait for everyone to get comfortable with their roles, after all almost evey single lineman we have is playing a differant position from last year, then after we are set we can experiment.
__________________
Andre Johnson is The Answer
run-david-run is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2006   #5
texan279
Hall of Fame
 
texan279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rosenberg TX
Age: 35
Posts: 5,608
Rep Power: 3366 texan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by [[Gary Kubiak]] View Post
No trade Value with both of them. RDE is a weakness and neither Babin or Peek is stepping up. Odd are we pick up a true 4-3 DE in 2007 and either Babin or Peek stays as back up.

IMHO, RDE is a position that is completely non productive in both passrush and run defense.
Why don't we give them more than four games in a new system before we write them off as having no value.
__________________
Fire It Up, Let the engines roll, It's time to burn it down
texan279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2006   #6
TK_Gamer
Hall of Fame
 
TK_Gamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 51
Posts: 1,029
Rep Power: 12 TK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVP
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

I like weaver at RDE on running plays and move him to DT and put in Babin or Peek on passing downs, I think Mario draws more attention and effects the line play best at LDE. now once Mario gets some moves down and gets his confidence up, I see him as a full time RDE with weaver at LDE but not yet. at Tackle I see payne and TJ in on first down / rushing plays, and johnson and johnson on passing downs. just my observations I would also like to see Peek in at weak side LB rushing around Mario on passing downs. I really dont think Peek is strong enough to play DE, but if mario or weaver ties up the blockers, he would get to the QB from the LB spot.
__________________
"Yeah, and Barry Sanders, Thurman Thomas, and Gale Sayers were *undersized* too...."
TK_Gamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2006   #7
rmartin65
I'm Score
 
rmartin65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 7,890
Rep Power: 53272 rmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

If we draft another DL in the first, I will flip.
rmartin65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 10-07-2006   #8
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,265
Rep Power: 150172 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
If we draft another DL in the first, I will flip.
So when we say clean slate, we don't really mean clean slate as in a clean slate do we??

I honestly don't care what we get, as long as that person helps this team become better.

In Dallas, last year, they picked a DE, an OLB(basically defensive line) with both of their first round picks. Then in the sixth, another DE. This year, they use another first round pick on defense.

Do you hear their fans crying about, "Oh they bet not take another DL...... "

They realized they got nothing from the 4 previous drafts, and understood that the baker needs to pick the ingredients if he's going to make a pie worth eating. They gave Parcells 3 years, & they are happy with what Parcells is cooking.


Most of us acknowledge Kubiaks credentials, we recognize the success he has had at every level of the game.

In his first draft, he's brought some really good talent.... Ryans, Owen, Lundy(he's not as bad as people are saying), Spencer, Winston(sounds like he's close to seeing field time), & Mario. Mayber Mario isn't producing like we'd hoped, but the kid has got talent, there is no way anyone can deny that.

He's also got talent coming in through FA, who wants to be part of a winning tradition. We didn't have to pay Putz, Dayne, Cook, Molds, Gado, Flanagan, Salaam, or even Cowart out the ass to play on this team. They saw a winner pulling the strings, and they wanted to be part of his team.

7 Bonafide starters coming to this team, because of Kubiak. Plus we are developing Winston & Lundy, and we've got a bonafide backup QB, that is more than just a place holder 'till David comes back.

On offense, Owen, Spencer, Flanagan, Cook, Dayne/Gado, Putz...... that's 5 starters, 5 bonafide..... to go with David, AJ, & Chester. we are three starters away from a complete offense.

On Defense, Weaver, Mario, Meco to go with Wong. hmm.. I've got a feeling we'll be acquiring more defensive help in the years to come.

I like TJ...... & I like Babin, and I like Payne & Earl as starters. & I know some folks want to count Dunta as a bonafide starters.

But we are much farther away on Defense, than we are on offense. & it shows.
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2006   #9
rmartin65
I'm Score
 
rmartin65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 7,890
Rep Power: 53272 rmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respectedrmartin65 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Sure, he should get his chance to do what he thinks is right. But with some of the playmakers at other positions, it just seems foolish to grab the same position that we did the last 2-3 years, depending how you look at Babin.
rmartin65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2006   #10
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: I live in a hole, but stay close to my kind, 'cause they understand what burns in my mind...
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 47
Posts: 29,601
Rep Power: 209247 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
If we draft another DL in the first, I will flip.
No doubt.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2006   #11
tsip
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 12 tsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVP
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I could definitely see him as a 3-4 DE, Weaver as well, who IMHO has produced more from the DT position for us.

But in a 4-3, I think Mario will do well, once all this #1 pick stuff dies down a bit. & Babin or Peek as the other end( Babin playing either side, with Mario or Kalu& Peek on the Weekside with Mario or Kalu), is comparable IMHO to having a Kearse or Freeney on the starting line.

Babin IMHO has been getting good pressure & Peek as well on passing downs. Right now, I think it's kinda difficult to say for sure, what we've got at DE. we swap them in & out so much, then it looks like every play is about getting the passer, that we really don't know how they will play together, and for a complete game.

If I were on the coaching staff, I'd decide on who my starting lineup would be, and play that line for most of the game. These guys have got to learn to play with each other, just as much as the LBs need to learn to play with each other, and the group in front of them, and the DBs have to learn to play with each other, and the group in front of them.

you keep changing that front four, & the LBs have to address the Line differently every down, never getting a good read on the line, or the RBs/TEs.

I also mentioned it looks like we're rushing the QB everydown, which leads us to overrun the RB, and the screens way too often. Against Miami, we were more balanced, and played the run much better.
I agree that we need a 'set' line-up and then relieve as needed to keep them fresh the entire game-by relieving, I don't mean on a 'merry-go-round' like we are doing now And, IMO, Babin needs to be a major part of the equation as he can play both the pass/run and pressure the QB.

Kubiak was not happy with Weaver's play at tackle during the pre-season, which 'opened' up more playing time there for TJ--what's up with Anthony at tackle. Is it just me or do we seem to have a lot of ends and few tackles? How was Mario at tackle?
tsip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2006   #12
gtexan02
Working?
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boston
Age: 30
Posts: 15,495
Rep Power: 41089 gtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

What the heck? How is Mario possibly better suited to being a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE? I thought Mario's strength was rushing the passer, and unless I'm completely out of place, I'm pretty sure that DEs in a 3-4 aren't supposed to rush the passer.

Next topic, we had better not draft another DL in the 1st round this year. Tkyss, I get the point you're trying to make, but you're totally offbase.
#1 - Dallas was switching from 4-3 to 3-4, and needed new personel. You could say we are doing the same, but all of our 1st round DLs in the last two years have been 4-3 guys, not 3-4 guys.
#2 - Just because one team does it, doesn't make it right. We have way too many holes on this team to waste another 1st round high pick on a DE
__________________
Adios until next season. See you then
gtexan02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2006   #13
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 43,641
Rep Power: 222056 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to infantrycak
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I'm pretty sure that DEs in a 3-4 aren't supposed to rush the passer.
DE's in a 3-4 are not the primary pass rush but that doesn't mean they aren't pass rushers. This is just one of those oversimplications you hear sometimes.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2006   #14
gtexan02
Working?
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boston
Age: 30
Posts: 15,495
Rep Power: 41089 gtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Babin Vs Peek! The real story.......

Sorry for the confusion by my statement, I am well aware that at times the 3-4 DEs may be caled on to rush the passer, but I was referring to their primary job, which is to occupy the tackles and let the LBs either rush the passer or hit the hole
__________________
Adios until next season. See you then
gtexan02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger