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Old 10-06-2006   #1
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Default ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...len&id=2614021

Surprise

• QB David Carr (Houston): The top pick in the 2002 draft, Carr spent the first four seasons of his career as a human piņata, sacked an average of once every 8.8 drop-backs. He was sacked 76 times as a rookie and 68 times last season. Carr is still getting sacked too often (15 times in four contests). But when he's been able to stay perpendicular, the former Fresno State star has been terrific, leading the NFL with an efficiency rating of 108.9, and throwing seven touchdown passes versus just two interceptions. If first-year head coach Gary Kubiak can figure a way to keep him consistently upright, Carr might yet develop into the Pro Bowl-caliber quarterback scouts predicted he would be.
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Old 10-06-2006   #2
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

Hey, ESPN is right for once! While I don't think it's a major surprise since I've always been a Carr supporter, it is somewhat surprising he's the #1 rater QB (according to QB rating) in the NFL thus far.
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Old 10-06-2006   #3
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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Originally Posted by TexanSam View Post
Hey, ESPN is right for once! While I don't think it's a major surprise since I've always been a Carr supporter, it is somewhat surprising he's the #1 rater QB (according to QB rating) in the NFL thus far.
Nice stat, but somewhat misleading.To a certain degree its a product of the defense sets he has faced. When the Eagles, Colts, and Redskins took decent leads they in essence went into Prevent mode. This allowed Carr to complete lots of passes as the D's were trying to "prevent" long quick td passes. In essence they surrendered short passes and several minute drives to the Texans. Carr took advantage and made it worth his while by completing passes and TDs. Since QB rating is affected by passes completed, and with Carr getting a lot of passes completed against PREVENT, that is something that must be taken into account.

Honestly, stats can be very very misleading. Houston has the number one QB by passer rating, a WR that is at or near the top of the league in receptions and yards, and the highest rated CBs(see another thread) yet we are 1-3.
The only stats that are important is wins and losses.
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Old 10-06-2006   #4
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
When the Eagles, Colts, and Redskins took decent leads they in essence went into Prevent mode. This allowed Carr to complete lots of passes as the D's were trying to "prevent" long quick td passes. In essence they surrendered short passes and several minute drives to the Texans. Carr took advantage and made it worth his while by completing passes and TDs. Since QB rating is affected by passes completed, and with Carr getting a lot of passes completed against PREVENT, that is something that must be taken into account.
I highly doubt Carr was thinking about his stats no matter what defense he was facing. This arguement is getting old. Breaking down the QB rating by quarter shows Carr is best in the first quarter, not as good in the second, worst in the third, and then back on top in the fourth. No defense wants to give up yards or touchdowns. I don't care if you are up by 100, these are pro teams and pro players and they don't just take life easy once they get a lead. They still play hard, they just take fewer risks. Carr still had to make good passes, and the receivers still had to make good grabs. I wouldn't consider Phili garbage time, as we were in it till about halfway through the fourth, and obviously there was none in the Miami game either. Indianapolis and Washington were the times when defenses weren't as agressive, but I have a hard time believing they were just letting Carr and his recievers walk down the field. The starters were still in the game and playing.

The arguements against Carr are getting old. Nothing is easy when it comes to this level, and he is getting things done this year. He has steadily improved weekly, and I don't expect him to stop. In fact, as the year goes on, I expect his numbers to get better. We will eventually play worse defenses, and its possible that he will soar.
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Old 10-06-2006   #5
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
Nice stat, but somewhat misleading.To a certain degree its a product of the defense sets he has faced. When the Eagles, Colts, and Redskins took decent leads they in essence went into Prevent mode. This allowed Carr to complete lots of passes as the D's were trying to "prevent" long quick td passes. In essence they surrendered short passes and several minute drives to the Texans. Carr took advantage and made it worth his while by completing passes and TDs. Since QB rating is affected by passes completed, and with Carr getting a lot of passes completed against PREVENT, that is something that must be taken into account.

Honestly, stats can be very very misleading. Houston has the number one QB by passer rating, a WR that is at or near the top of the league in receptions and yards, and the highest rated CBs(see another thread) yet we are 1-3.
The only stats that are important is wins and losses.
You have a point stats can be misleading. Im thinking this is the best thing that could have happened with carr. I think his confidence is starting to rise and and his play is becoming more consistent. He is starting to make good decisions and gutsy throws on plays where he usually took sacks, and his rhythm with AJ is back in a big big way. I think Carr will continue to improve.
Wins and losses are the most important things, but it has to start somewhere the O is starting to turn things around and score points now its the defenses turn to give us more of the miami game.
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Old 10-06-2006   #6
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

This is a situation where two separate things can be equally true. Yes, the stats are somewhat misleading and yes, the team is still one and three, but to totally dismiss Carr's performance this season would be foolhardy. The guy is improving and has more talent around him that has helped him showcase the tallent he already had.

QB is one of those positions where your rating is almost totally reliant on the performance of those around you. I don't care how quick your release is or how great your vision is in finding the open receiver, a bad O-line is going to get you either killed or make you rush your throws. As well a QB can throw a perfect pass but if the receiver drops it then you are still 0 for 1.

The Texans make some improvements to the O-line and gave Carr another receiver to throw to (or at the very least, draw some defenders) and now both he and AJ are on track for great seasons statistically. This is not a coincidence.

Again, I understand that ultimately it is the wins and losses a QB is going to be judged by but you have to give the guy some credit for his performance. Besides if this helps build his, along with his teammates, confidence level then this type of publicity is a great thing no matter what.
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Old 10-06-2006   #7
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
Nice stat, but somewhat misleading.To a certain degree its a product of the defense sets he has faced. When the Eagles, Colts, and Redskins took decent leads they in essence went into Prevent mode.
What is ironic, is that Philly, Washington, and Indy beat us basically playing a prevent defense, with all the underneath stuff we tend to give Carr a hard time about taking. Dump offs, screens, recievers in the flat, underneath routes, and only stretching the field on occasion.
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Old 10-06-2006   #8
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
Nice stat, but somewhat misleading.To a certain degree its a product of the defense sets he has faced. When the Eagles, Colts, and Redskins took decent leads they in essence went into Prevent mode. This allowed Carr to complete lots of passes as the D's were trying to "prevent" long quick td passes. In essence they surrendered short passes and several minute drives to the Texans. Carr took advantage and made it worth his while by completing passes and TDs. Since QB rating is affected by passes completed, and with Carr getting a lot of passes completed against PREVENT, that is something that must be taken into account.

Honestly, stats can be very very misleading. Houston has the number one QB by passer rating, a WR that is at or near the top of the league in receptions and yards, and the highest rated CBs(see another thread) yet we are 1-3.
The only stats that are important is wins and losses.
Let's see: TD on the openning drive against Phillie, TD on the openning drive against Washington, TD in 4th quarter of close game versus Miami...

Actually, if you want to break things down like that, he shouldn't have any interceptions. One was in garbage time against Washington when he threw the ball up for grabs in the endzone. The second one was clearly Andre Johnson's fault. So, I guess he's really had one rushing TD, 3 passing TDs and 0 interceptions. So, why don't you refigure his passer rating. Then, go threw all the other QBs and how they arrived at their statistics and recalculate them-- then perhaps we'll have an "accurate" view of Carr play. Hmm, 3 TDs and 0 interceptions with a high completion percentage. Unfortunately for you, I think he's still going to have a very high rating.
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Old 10-06-2006   #9
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

...and to think, I wanted us to trade up and get Gallery.
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Old 10-06-2006   #10
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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...and to think, I wanted us to trade up and get Gallery.
I wanted D'Brick Ferguson after trading the pick. I'm starting to feel like an ***** on that one...
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Old 10-06-2006   #11
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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I wanted D'Brick Ferguson after trading the pick. I'm starting to feel like an ***** on that one...
How is brick doing this season? havent really heard much about him is he keeping chad pen upright?
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Old 10-06-2006   #12
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Let's see: TD on the openning drive against Phillie, TD on the openning drive against Washington, TD in 4th quarter of close game versus Miami...

Actually, if you want to break things down like that, he shouldn't have any interceptions. One was in garbage time against Washington when he threw the ball up for grabs in the endzone. The second one was clearly Andre Johnson's fault. So, I guess he's really had one rushing TD, 3 passing TDs and 0 interceptions. So, why don't you refigure his passer rating. Then, go threw all the other QBs and how they arrived at their statistics and recalculate them-- then perhaps we'll have an "accurate" view of Carr play. Hmm, 3 TDs and 0 interceptions with a high completion percentage. Unfortunately for you, I think he's still going to have a very high rating.
The "garbage time" argument is a load of crap. What about other league-leading QBs ... hell, Peyton Manning's entire game against us should count as garbage time with the defense we were throwing against him. Every QB gets garbage time and every QB gets to throw against bad or poorly schemed defenses ... put down the Haterade. What about other highly ranked quarterbacks who have the benefit of at least a mid-pack level running game? Where's the Brian Westbrook or Clinton Portis on our team? Carr certainly isn't getting any serious run support right now, and is, wondrously, playing against defenses who are, for perhaps the first time in Texans history, having to scheme for the pass before Ron Sloooow it Down Dayne.

I don't know where people get this "it's prevent, the passes don't count" argument. Carr marched the offense down the field against a variety of different playcalls and still punched it in the end zone. Again, if you're going to whine that he shouldn't be praised for doing his job well, then I hope you've accounted for every other QB's statistical composition as well.

Is Carr truly "the best" QB in the NFL? Of course not. Is he rapidly improving? Yes, so give credit where credit's due.
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Old 10-06-2006   #13
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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The "garbage time" argument is a load of crap. What about other league-leading QBs ... hell, Peyton Manning's entire game against us should count as garbage time with the defense we were throwing against him. Every QB gets garbage time and every QB gets to throw against bad or poorly schemed defenses ... put down the Haterade. What about other highly ranked quarterbacks who have the benefit of at least a mid-pack level running game? Where's the Brian Westbrook or Clinton Portis on our team? Carr certainly isn't getting any serious run support right now, and is, wondrously, playing against defenses who are, for perhaps the first time in Texans history, having to scheme for the pass before Ron Sloooow it Down Dayne.

I don't know where people get this "it's prevent, the passes don't count" argument. Carr marched the offense down the field against a variety of different playcalls and still punched it in the end zone. Again, if you're going to whine that he shouldn't be praised for doing his job well, then I hope you've accounted for every other QB's statistical composition as well.

Is Carr truly "the best" QB in the NFL? Of course not. Is he rapidly improving? Yes, so give credit where credit's due.

Amen, brother.
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Old 10-06-2006   #14
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

I know he hasn't played, but Odell Thurman has got to be the biggest disappointment of this year so far. From stud rookie to a year long suspension.
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Old 10-06-2006   #15
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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I know he hasn't played, but Odell Thurman has got to be the biggest disappointment of this year so far. From stud rookie to a year long suspension.
You got that right lol..fans are pissed here in cinci because they are missing odell in a big way after that thrashing the pats gave them. I am hoping ryan's season can be just as good if not better than thurman had last year.
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Old 10-06-2006   #16
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

What did Odell do?
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Old 10-06-2006   #17
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
Nice stat, but somewhat misleading.To a certain degree its a product of the defense sets he has faced. When the Eagles, Colts, and Redskins took decent leads they in essence went into Prevent mode. This allowed Carr to complete lots of passes as the D's were trying to "prevent" long quick td passes. In essence they surrendered short passes and several minute drives to the Texans. Carr took advantage and made it worth his while by completing passes and TDs. Since QB rating is affected by passes completed, and with Carr getting a lot of passes completed against PREVENT, that is something that must be taken into account.

Honestly, stats can be very very misleading. Houston has the number one QB by passer rating, a WR that is at or near the top of the league in receptions and yards, and the highest rated CBs(see another thread) yet we are 1-3.
The only stats that are important is wins and losses.
There is no possible way to spin a great QB Rating into a negative, no matter how hard you try.

If the rest of the team was playing as good as David Carr, we would be 4-0. Sometimes it sucks that this is a TEAM GAME and there are always 10 other guys on the field getting paid to make plays or to screw up plays.
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Old 10-06-2006   #18
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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There is no possible way to spin a great QB Rating into a negative, no matter how hard you try.

If the rest of the team was playing as good as David Carr, we would be 4-0. Sometimes it sucks that this is a TEAM GAME and there are always 10 other guys on the field getting paid to make plays or to screw up plays.
Yup, and lets not forget a pathetic offensive line with HORRIBLE coaching along with a #2 and #3 WRs who are NOT in the league anymore. Now we have better coaching for the O-line and legit targets with Moulds and our TEs who were invisible

Kubiak has been a SHOT in the arm for Carr and is a true coach, not like capers, and Chris Palmer who seems to ruin the careers of his QBs lately.

But you will always have Carr haters because they are simply jealous of David Carr and wish to have his life. It happens, certain people cant stand famous people but deep inside they wish they were that person.
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Old 10-06-2006   #19
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

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What did Odell do?
He violated the leagues drug policy...i think it might have been steriods or HGH. Shortly after he got a DUI...also in the car with him Chris Henry and Reggie Mcneal. Odell is out for the season.
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Old 10-06-2006   #20
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Default Re: ESPN: Surprises and disappointments

"The Raiders signed Gallery to a contract with a maximum value of $54.75 million and $14.5 million in bonuses in '04, and haven't gotten much return on that investment. "
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Whoa ! How many guys on this Board have sung the praises of this big-time
Bust ? Bet I don't get a single confession.
BTW, any reports on our latest boy wonder LT, the highly acclaimed Mr. D'brick ?
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