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Old 09-28-2006   #1
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Default Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

I'm just sitting here watching the replay of the Steelers/Bengals game on NFL Network. Carson Palmer had 3 fumbles and 2 INT's. Roethlesbooger threw 3 INT's in the game. Just a little food for thought...

You guys know that I'm no Carr apologist, far from it. But I think that we're seeing the guy transform into an average NFL QB. We all know his TD/INT numbers and QB rating, but I think the biggest difference is his abitlity to get the ball downfield. He already has 8 passes for 20+ and 2 passes for 40+. Last year he had 18 and 2 respectively.

I'm not saying that we absolutely shouldn't draft Brady Quinn, but there is some doubt.

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Old 09-28-2006   #2
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
I'm just sitting here watching the replay of the Steelers/Bengals game on NFL Network. Carson Palmer had 3 fumbles and 2 INT's. Roethlesbooger threw 3 INT's in the game. Just a little food for thought...

You guys know that I'm no Carr apologist, far from it. But I think that we're seeing the guy transform into an average NFL QB. We all know his TD/INT numbers and QB rating, but I think the biggest difference is his abitlity to get the ball downfield. He already 8 passes for 20+ and 2 passes for 40+. Last year he had 18 and 2 respectively.

I'm not saying that we absolutely shouldn't draft Brady Quinn, but there is some doubt.
QB is not our problem. It's the defense. Haven't we known that already?
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Old 09-28-2006   #3
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
QB is not our problem. It's the defense. Haven't we known that already?
Some have, some haven't.

I still think that QB is somewhat of a problem. Carr is not a leader and makes a lot of mistakes, but he is making strides to become an average QB.
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Old 09-28-2006   #4
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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QB is not our problem. It's the defense. Haven't we known that already?

We do NOW....for the past 4 1/2 years our problem has been on the offense side of the ball mainly on the O line but the Qb position has had its fair share of blame.
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Old 09-28-2006   #5
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
I'm just sitting here watching the replay of the Steelers/Bengals game on NFL Network. Carson Palmer had 3 fumbles and 2 INT's. Roethlesbooger threw 3 INT's in the game. Just a little food for thought...

You guys know that I'm no Carr apologist, far from it. But I think that we're seeing the guy transform into an average NFL QB. We all know his TD/INT numbers and QB rating, but I think the biggest difference is his abitlity to get the ball downfield. He already 8 passes for 20+ and 2 passes for 40+. Last year he had 18 and 2 respectively.

I'm not saying that we absolutely shouldn't draft Brady Quinn, but there is some doubt.
Oh God Wonger, what have you done! You started a Carr thread!

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Quick, must talk about something else.........national media thinks we suck......we should have drafted Bush.............Mario is a bust.........

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Old 09-28-2006   #6
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

The Texans offense since inception, averages about 16 points a game. The best year was 2004, which was 19 points game. Coincidentally, that was the best year for our defense.

The defense is a huge problem, but scoring points in the teens isn't going to produce a winning team unless you have a Chicago type defense in a weak division.

Bottom line, the offense is going to have to start scoring more points, averaging around in the mid to high 20's, otherwise we will still be stuck at best a .500 record.

So, you can blame the defense all you want, the offense still has to improve on what they haven't been able to get done since year 1.
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Old 09-28-2006   #7
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

Carr is making big strides in showing that he can manage the O. If our D will show alil bit of life and get some stops, Carr would show more improvement than what he is showing now. Our D is dictating to many parts of every game this season, no running game cuz we're playing catch-up, TOP doubled, etc...
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Old 09-28-2006   #8
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
Some have, some haven't.

I still think that QB is somewhat of a problem. Carr is not a leader and makes a lot of mistakes, but he is making strides to become an average QB.
Defense still is top priority in the Draft and FA.
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Old 09-28-2006   #9
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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The Texans offense since inception, averages about 16 points a game. The best year was 2004, which was 19 points game. Coincidentally, that was the best year for our defense.

The defense is a huge problem, but scoring points in the teens isn't going to produce a winning team unless you have a Chicago type defense in a weak division.

Bottom line, the offense is going to have to start scoring more points, averaging around in the mid to high 20's, otherwise we will still be stuck at best a .500 record.

So, you can blame the defense all you want, the offense still has to improve on what they haven't been able to get done since year 1.
I really think this O can score in mid-20's consistantly. Once again that's where the D comes into play. With some quick 3-outs, we could win the field position battle and wouldn't have to worry about 80-yard drives everytime we touch the ball.
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Old 09-28-2006   #10
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

When you have a team in our division that lights it up every time like the Colts do and we meet them twice each year, then it goes without saying that defense against them needs to be our top priority. When a team that goes 10-6 during the year can barely get into the playoffs, every loss hurts. Right off the bat we lose twice each year to the Colts, that's an automatic 33% of our loses allowed for the season if we plan to barely make the playoffs. How can the defense NOT be a priority. If we can start getting points off of turnovers from the defense, this offense would be in the upper half of the league.
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Old 09-28-2006   #11
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan View Post
The defense is a huge problem, but scoring points in the teens isn't going to produce a winning team unless you have a Chicago type defense in a weak division.

Bottom line, the offense is going to have to start scoring more points, averaging around in the mid to high 20's, otherwise we will still be stuck at best a .500 record.
Yes the O needs to improve, but you are exagerating slightly. Most years mid pack is right around 20 points. 25 points as an average is elite area most years--just 6 teams last year. If you need that many points--your D is sucking wind.
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Old 09-28-2006   #12
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

carr has played better...but that doesn't mean he's helping the team. of course...the defense hasn't helped either. offense hasn't kept them in the game, nor has the defense. in fact, the defense has yet to show up to a single game this year. everybody needs to play better; not just carr, defense, etc.
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Old 09-28-2006   #13
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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I really think this O can score in mid-20's consistantly. Once again that's where the D comes into play. With some quick 3-outs, we could win the field position battle and wouldn't have to worry about 80-yard drives everytime we touch the ball.
I don't have your same optimism. Go through their box scores beginning with 2004. You will see the same pattern.

Of course, in 2004 there were a few shows of good games, but the offense consistently can only be expected to put up about 17 points, rush for about 100 yards, 200 yards passing, with around 25 attempts and 18 completions.

How is the defense stopping teams going to make this better when that is what they have been doing consistently over the past two years, even back to 2002, but let's give them a break because they were an expansion team.

What I am saying is, I'll believe it when I see them perfrom considerably better than those stats above in 2 out of 3 weeks.

You guys can bang on the defense all you want (and let me tell you, they deserve more criticism than the offense), but the offense has it's own set of problems regardless of what the defense does. Thinking the defense stopping people a few times and holding teams to the low 20's is going to mean the offense is going to have to play a full complete game, which in turn will bring up it's own set of problems for the offense.

I hope the Dolphins can only get in the low 20s or a little lower, because I really want to see how this offense reponds to that kind of opportunity.
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Old 09-28-2006   #14
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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Yes the O needs to improve, but you are exagerating slightly. Most years mid pack is right around 20 points. 25 points as an average is elite area most years--just 6 teams last year. If you need that many points--your D is sucking wind.
We have Kubiak, Sherman, Carr, Jonhson, and Moulds.

I believe McNair has in mind to have an offensive minded team that scores points and 25 as an average is a reasonable goal. They may not hit it, but they should come close or have some flashes of several weeks in a row that they could do that an entire season.

Your right though, that is an elite offense.
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Old 09-28-2006   #15
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

To tell you the truth HT, I really don't want to look back on the early years. That thing we called an O wasn't much until oppossing D's knew we only had 3 plays, off-tackle L or R, slant L or R, and dump-off L or R. This years O has shown the variety of plays, that we can actually cause mis-matches and exploit them and score points. Once again can the D hold up, that's the million-dollar question.

BTW, we scored first in 2 of 3 games, how long did it take the other team to tie the score up, that's my point. IT'S ALL ABOUT DEFENSE!!
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Old 09-28-2006   #16
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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To tell you the truth HT, I really don't want to look back on the early years. That thing we called an O wasn't much until oppossing D's knew we only had 3 plays, off-tackle L or R, slant L or R, and dump-off L or R. This years O has shown the variety of plays, that we can actually cause mis-matches and exploit them and score points. Once again can the D hold up, that's the million-dollar question.

BTW, we scored first in 2 of 3 games, how long did it take the other team to tie the score up, that's my point. IT'S ALL ABOUT DEFENSE!!
You are kind of making my point, the offense is still the same with all the changes with the first three games. Those first drives are nice, but they just about completely fell apart after that and I don't see how you can say that is a complete result of the defense.

I understand the point that the defense isn't doing the offense any favors, but the offense is getting the ball basically on their own 20 every time the other team scores.

As I have said earlier, this offense right now is only good for 17 points, about 100 yards rushing, and 200 yards passing, which is very consistent since 2002. The offense isn't doing the defense any favors, never has!

What are you guys going to say when the Texans lose to the Dolphins 20-17, 20-10, or some other low score? I hope you blame the offense from how I am understanding you.

Please keep in mind if the defense plays better and keeps the game close, the opposing defense is going to keep-or probably even turn up-the heat on the offense, those yards in the 4th quarter will not come so easy if the game is on the line.

It sounds like if the game is in the teens to low 20's, we have an automatic victory. I don't think so. I don't think this offense can perform in the clutch like that on a consistent basis. And if they can't, your defense point really doesn't matter when it comes to victories.

This isn't all about defense as you stated. Both sides of the ball need a lot work. Just so happens, the defense needs a lot more work.
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Old 09-28-2006   #17
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

I'm getting what you are saying HT, but why do you think we can't put together a game-winning drive. I think that this is very possible of this years team. Play-calling and scheme are the keys.
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Old 09-28-2006   #18
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
I'm just sitting here watching the replay of the Steelers/Bengals game on NFL Network. Carson Palmer had 3 fumbles and 2 INT's. Roethlesbooger threw 3 INT's in the game. Just a little food for thought...

You guys know that I'm no Carr apologist, far from it. But I think that we're seeing the guy transform into an average NFL QB. We all know his TD/INT numbers and QB rating, but I think the biggest difference is his abitlity to get the ball downfield. He already has 8 passes for 20+ and 2 passes for 40+. Last year he had 18 and 2 respectively.

I'm not saying that we absolutely shouldn't draft Brady Quinn, but there is some doubt.


I completely agree with your post (except for the drafting of quinn)but I am amazed that it was you who pointed it out. Kudos.

I think Carr is getting better and the o-line is a little better this year even with flanigan and Spencer out. Salaam played better than i thought he would- as did Hodgden. I think our line will be looking good by later in the year and really good by the middle of next year. I do think Kubes will right the ship (and the Carr ).

I am deeply disappointed with our defense so far i must say. I definatly think that at least some of the offensive mistakes have been due to the colander defense. Its hard to get the running game going when you are playing from behind.
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Old 09-28-2006   #19
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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I'm getting what you are saying HT, but why do you think we can't put together a game-winning drive. I think that this is very possible of this years team. Play-calling and scheme are the keys.
I think it is possible, I am just not confident they can pull it off.

With all the changes, the offense really just looks the same in my eyes, the stats are just moved around a bit.

But it is definitely possible with what you described, but they need to do it successfully for several weeks before I start expecting it.

If I expect it, then that means I could get disappointed, then I could get really mad.

Let's just say I am a skeptic of the offense, and completely mortified by the defense.
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Old 09-28-2006   #20
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Default Re: Carr and his fumbles, sacks, ints, etc., put into perspective

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I think it is possible, I am just not confident they can pull it off.

With all the changes, the offense really just looks the same in my eyes, the stats are just moved around a bit.

But it is definitely possible with what you described, but they need to do it successfully for several weeks before I start expecting it.

If I expect it, then that means I could get disappointed, then I could get really mad.

Let's just say I am a skeptic of the offense, and completely mortified by the defense.
I agree with these points about doing it successfully and skeptical about the O and mortified about the D. I just think all of these ideals can be answered if we had more of a running game and actually trying to protect a lead in the 4th qtr. That way we could really see if this O is for real or just the same ol' song.
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