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Old 09-28-2006   #1
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Default Defensive Vs Offensive

I just wanted to throw this out there because I've seen alot of people saying we shouldnt care about our bad defnese and we should just pile up points and make it a shoot out and hope for the best. This idea looks good on paper but it is inherently flawed when you look at the balance of the league vs our team. when you play a no holds barred, outscore the other team phillosophy you can usually be successfull if both yours and the the other teams defense is equatible, even if your both lousy. basicly nobody can stop anyone and you just race to see how many TD's/FG's you can put up or you try to get a TD when the other team settles for a FG. but when your defense is SO bad that your offense is only on the field half as much or less than the other team and they score on 65% to 75% of thier drives, the math just isnt in our favor. they use up the clock with a balanced attack and since they can convert on 3rd down they keep going down the field. then we take our 1/3 of the game and only score on 30% to 40% of our drives and we have no chance to catch up. even if we scored on all of our drives we would have a tough time. I'm not saying our offense is so perfect we dont need to improve. we need to improve as far as 3rd down coversions and penalties that kill a drive. but if we cant stop anyone on 3rd down they will ALLWAYS outscore us. so I'm hoping we get a defense or our offensive progress wont mean a thing.
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Old 09-28-2006   #2
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

I think we should not put sole responsibility for a loss on our defense, if we only score 15 points. Especially when they forced 2 punts..... one a 3 & out..... maybe 2, I can't remember.... forced a field goal, and a fumble that we failed to score on.........

Then when we have five 3 & outs, we shouldn't blame our defense for not giving the offense enough opportunity to put points on the board, or for staying on the field too long.
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Old 09-28-2006   #3
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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Originally Posted by BattleRedToro View Post
It is true the entire team needs to improve and the team wins or loses as a team not as individuals or as units, but I would say that the defense needs to improve the most right now. Here is to hoping that they do improve.
all things being equal, we could have won both the Philly game, and the Washington game had we scored on just 50% of our drives......

Drives that we didn't get beat on by the defense, but we fumbled the ball away, or allowed too many sacks.........

I'm not putting the loss solely on the offense...... I undertsand our defense did not play well....... but on offense, other than the fumbled snaps(it's understandable with a new center & a QB who has fumbled the ball 60 times in 63 games)....... we lost that game more than Washington won it.

Like Throwing the ball underneath & to the inside when our reciever has a step to the outside....
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Old 09-28-2006   #4
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
all things being equal, we could have won both the Philly game, and the Washington game had we scored on just 50% of our drives......
Is that all? Sounds easy.

What is the league average?
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Old 09-28-2006   #5
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Is that all? Sounds easy.

What is the league average?
In Madden or the NFL?
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Old 09-28-2006   #6
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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In Madden or the NFL?
Crap. I miss so much since I never think to consider Madden during a professional football discussion. Now I just look clueless.
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Old 09-28-2006   #7
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Is that all? Sounds easy.

What is the league average?
All I'm saying, is they had 8 possessions(not counting the final kneel) & scored on 5.......

We had 8 possessions, &
scored twice.
ONe Possession was killed by a fumble.
One by an INT in the endzone(or pretty close),
one 3 & out,
One killed by a holding penalty
One a Fumble on Center to QB exchange led to a Max blitz sack, which led to a punt
ONe a fumble, then flase start, then a punt


We shot ourselves in the foot so many times, keeping our offense off the field, and putting the defense on. We forced two 3 & outs in the first half......

Held them to a F.G on one possession in the second half, and forced a fumble on another.

They only scored 10 points in the second half.....

We scored 7. We went 3 & out, fumbled, and threw an INT....

We gave up more than 21 points...... we failed on defense.

We didn't score more than 21 points..... we failed on offense.

But to say the defense lost us the game because they couldn't force 3 & outs is wrong.....

This game just like many last year, our defense was on the field way too long, because our offense couldn't stay on the field. Even our scoring drives were 1:20 & 2:29 seconds....... OUr longest drive was 4:14 seconds.... ended in a punt.
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Old 09-28-2006   #8
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

not because we couldnt force 3 and outs, because we couldnt stop 3rd and whatever, whenever. one of the touchdowns were on 3rd and long. and one setup by 3rd and long. so it works both ways, you can twist the stats and numbers around all you want, you know it, we know it, the defense stunk, hell the whole friggin NFL watching , reading, listening world knows our defense is the worst in the league, what part of that do some of you not get?

No it's easier to blame David Carr and say hes not leading the offense, lol
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Old 09-28-2006   #9
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
All I'm saying, is they had 8 possessions(not counting the final kneel) & scored on 5.......

We had 8 possessions, &
scored twice.
ONe Possession was killed by a fumble.
One by an INT in the endzone(or pretty close),
one 3 & out,
One killed by a holding penalty
One a Fumble on Center to QB exchange led to a Max blitz sack, which led to a punt
ONe a fumble, then flase start, then a punt


We shot ourselves in the foot so many times, keeping our offense off the field, and putting the defense on. We forced two 3 & outs in the first half......

Held them to a F.G on one possession in the second half, and forced a fumble on another.

They only scored 10 points in the second half.....

We scored 7. We went 3 & out, fumbled, and threw an INT....

We gave up more than 21 points...... we failed on defense.

We didn't score more than 21 points..... we failed on offense.

But to say the defense lost us the game because they couldn't force 3 & outs is wrong.....

This game just like many last year, our defense was on the field way too long, because our offense couldn't stay on the field. Even our scoring drives were 1:20 & 2:29 seconds....... OUr longest drive was 4:14 seconds.... ended in a punt.
because our offense couldnt stay on the field? are you kidding me? so yer really gonna tie the other teams offensive success to our offenses failure? listen to yourself for a moment. their offense scored more becuase we didnt take long enough on our drives? their offense scored more becuase WE DID NOT STOP THEM.
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Old 09-28-2006   #10
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
But to say the defense lost us the game because they couldn't force 3 & outs is wrong.....

This game just like many last year, our defense was on the field way too long, because our offense couldn't stay on the field. Even our scoring drives were 1:20 & 2:29 seconds....... OUr longest drive was 4:14 seconds.... ended in a punt.
Why is it always the O's responsibility to keep the D off the field? Really 3 & outs aren't a problem?--we have forced 3 punts total this season. A D can lower the time of possession by ending drives, by ending them on the 1st set of downs instead of the 20th.

68.4%--that tells everything you need to know about this D--THEY can't get off the field and there is no passing the buck to anyone else for it. The O could assist the D by minimizing the time the D sucks, but the primary responsibility for the D sucking is on the D.
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Old 09-28-2006   #11
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

ok, no, maybe it's this, we lost not becuase they scored more than we did , but becuase we scored less! eureka! it's a whole new ballgame now! woohoo!
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Old 09-28-2006   #12
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

I don't know exactly what the league average is as far as scores per possession, but I am pretty sure it's a lot lower than 50%. In the Indy v. Jax game, for instance, the Colts had nine possessions and scored twice (they also scored a punt return TD). The Jags had ten possessions and scored twice, though they also missed two field goals. At any rate, I believe that's a lot more representative of a normal football game. Unless your team plays a defense like the Texans, they shouldn't be scoring on 50% of their drives. Even 40% would be remarkable.
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Old 09-28-2006   #13
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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I don't know exactly what the league average is as far as scores per possession, but I am pretty sure it's a lot lower than 50%. In the Indy v. Jax game, for instance, the Colts had nine possessions and scored twice (they also scored a punt return TD). The Jags had ten possessions and scored twice, though they also missed two field goals. At any rate, I believe that's a lot more representative of a normal football game. Unless your team plays a defense like the Texans, they shouldn't be scoring on 50% of their drives. Even 40% would be remarkable.

Right. I wonder what the league average for red zone touchdowns is. Is that even 50%?
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Old 09-28-2006   #14
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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Why is it always the O's responsibility to keep the D off the field? Really 3 & outs aren't a problem?--we have forced 3 punts total this season. A D can lower the time of possession by ending drives, by ending them on the 1st set of downs instead of the 20th.

68.4%--that tells everything you need to know about this D--THEY can't get off the field and there is no passing the buck to anyone else for it. The O could assist the D by minimizing the time the D sucks, but the primary responsibility for the D sucking is on the D.
yeah thats true....You can't really blame the offense for the defenses lack of success.....It's not like they give up a lot of late touchdowns...we have been pretty much dealt with by the third quater...So them being tired because our offense can't stay on the field shouldn't be that much of a reason....
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Old 09-28-2006   #15
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

that is why i used 30% to 40% in my original post, that would be doing good, but nowhere near as good as we make the other team with our lousy defense.
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Old 09-28-2006   #16
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

also , sorry but its our lousy defense thats leaving their offense on the field too long not our offense.
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Old 09-28-2006   #17
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Why is it always the O's responsibility to keep the D off the field? Really 3 & outs aren't a problem?--we have forced 3 punts total this season. A D can lower the time of possession by ending drives, by ending them on the 1st set of downs instead of the 20th.

68.4%--that tells everything you need to know about this D--THEY can't get off the field and there is no passing the buck to anyone else for it. The O could assist the D by minimizing the time the D sucks, but the primary responsibility for the D sucking is on the D.
They haven't been, really. The Texans have had 26 meaningful possessions this year (five seconds before the half-type possessions not counted). They've had 7 possessions where they went 3 & out or worse (fumble on opening drive vs. Indy, for instance). They've scored on 8 drives (6 TDs, 2 FGs). Of the remaining, I think I only saw one instance where the team simply failed to convert a normal 3-down set. Most every time, it was a turnover or penalty that killed the drive.

This offense has shown that it can move the ball. What it hasn't shown is the ability to be consistent and disciplined. That will come with time, I believe.

The defense really is that bad.
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Old 09-28-2006   #18
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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They haven't been, really.
I was talking about the D forcing 3 and out's.

Nice quote from Ditka on the Texans' D--you almost have to try to give up that much yardage.
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Old 09-28-2006   #19
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

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Nice quote from Ditka on the Texans' D--you almost have to try to give up that much yardage.
Are you saying the Texans defense is in a conspiracy to look bad to try to force change in the team? That's what I'm hearing.

joke
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Old 09-28-2006   #20
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Default Re: Defensive Vs Offensive

no It's our master plan..........I thought I went over this, richard smith hid the meaty part of the defensive game plan (with all the blitzes and smash mouth stuff) and we are gonna bring it out in the game that decides the worst record in the league, totally aniahliate the other team, and kubiak is gonna tell everyone "see we are NOT the worst team in football!"
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