In Defense of the Defense - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

RTP2110 · 09-20-2004

I know has looked pretty bad so far this season, and there's really no excuse for any team to play the way they have at times. Let's just remember a few things though...

Payne is coming back from injury
Glenn is coming back from injury
Walker is coming back from injury
Babin is a rookie
Robinson is a rookie
Coleman is at a new position
Wong is a new position
Smith is at a new postion

That's 8 of 11 guys making some kind of transition. The defense has been ugly to this point, but I think the most important thing for them will be how we finish the season and not how we start. If we finish the season strong on D, or improve near mid-season, we'll be looking real good along with a strong, improving offense. These guys on defense just need a little time to gel together.

Wolf · 09-21-2004

I am trying to have patience, but I thought we did more with less last year. And maybe it is just my expectations were too high or that I am already getting frustrated, but you make a good point

CaliforniaTexan · 09-21-2004

I know my expectations were high. I thought the defense got a pretty good lift and that we'd be an easy 10-6. I agonized over waiting for the Lions game score to show up on the screen on ESPN. It's only been two games so maybe someone'll light a fire under someone's ***.

...

I hope... :~

bckey · 09-21-2004

Payne and Walker are older and coming off injuries. We should have addressed the dl somewhere in the draft. Looks like V. Wilfork is going to be a stud for New England.

As far as Capers goes I have never liked him as a head coach. I was very disappointed when he was announced as our coach. IMHO he is a defensive cordinator that shouldn't be a head coach kind of like Buddy Ryan. I still support the Texans no matter what. It is kind of like when the Oilers had Glanville or Pardee. You still love the team.

Meisterman · 09-21-2004

Lets hope things get better because having 2 of the worst teams in the league imposing their will on this defense doesn't help. I can't really say anything positive about the secondary play...so I guess there is nowhere to go but up.

nunusguy · 09-21-2004

In our first year in 2002 the D was impressive and drew rave reviews from many sources while the offense was inept. But 2 years can make a really big difference (sometimes a single season can). Coleman, Payne, Walker, Glenn,
Sharper are @ or > 30 now. Look at Jason Gilden, the former LB with the Steelers - one year he's a star and the next can't make anyones team. Skill levels deteriorate very rapidly for some, others might make it into their late 30s and still perform to a high level. And players don't have the same kind of resilance coming off injuries when they are 30 or > compared to 25.
Jeff Posey was the sack leader that year and was the only effective pass rusher we have had to date - but surely his absense can't make that much difference. Wong, Babin, and and/or Peek have atleast Posey's level of skill.
This week, for the first time this season, they will face a truly formidable
offense. Gonna be real interesting to see how that plays out.

JDizzle · 09-21-2004

While we're on the topic of D, has anyone noticed Jay Foreman? I don't watch him that much, but it seems to me he's being a bit more nosey around the LOS, compared to his usual heel tackling from last season.

aj. · 09-21-2004

That's what having Walker, Payne, and Robaire up front will do for the LBs, as opposed to Corey Sears, Steve Martin and Jerry DeLoach.

The defense played well in the first half at Detroit. They just need to figure out how to play well for two halves. Kind of like the offense...

NoBullTexan · 09-21-2004

IMO our defense is still evolving. However the coaches should share some of the blame because we have used nothing but the vanilla 4 man rush. Last night on MNF I saw the Iggles bring people from all over the field. Culpepper never got a read on where they were coming from. We should be incorporating more of that in our defensive schemes.

JDizzle · 09-21-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBullTexan

IMO our defense is still evolving. However the coaches should share some of the blame because we have used nothing but the vanilla 4 man rush. Last night on MNF I saw the Iggles bring people from all over the field. Culpepper never got a read on where they were coming from. We should be incorporating more of that in our defensive schemes.

That's a good point and I have wondered the same thing the past couple weeks. My only guess is that having a rookie corner and a FS in transition does not allow us to send as many people as we'd like, especially DB's. On the other hand, I think at least a couple times a game, say in the offense's territory, send the cavalry in on an obvious passing situation to get a big loss or possibly force a turnover.

Meloy · 09-21-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTP2110

I know has looked pretty bad so far this season, and there's really no excuse for any team to play the way they have at times. Let's just remember a few things though...

Payne is coming back from injury
Glenn is coming back from injury
Walker is coming back from injury
Babin is a rookie
Robinson is a rookie
Coleman is at a new position
Wong is a new position
Smith is at a new postion

That's 8 of 11 guys making some kind of transition. The defense has been ugly to this point, but I think the most important thing for them will be how we finish the season and not how we start. If we finish the season strong on D, or improve near mid-season, we'll be looking real good along with a strong, improving offense. These guys on defense just need a little time to gel together.

Ok, if you are the starter you should be at least 90% healthy. Those injuries are from last year. With the exception of Wong, the guys you mention were together for spring training, 4 weeks of exhibition and now 2 weeks of regular games. I am not saying perfect but at least be in the right spot to defend a TD pass Coleman. Don't hit a guy out of bounds, Babin. Don't take a head shot at a reciever Arron Glenn. That's just the defense. Ok, I just took a sedative and reaching for a bottle of Crown, I'll be ok in a minute.

Like most of you I don't mind losing even when I was on a sports field as a kid. I just want the team to act like they at least belong on a field. Now let's go to KC & make them squeal like a little girl!!

SBTexans08 · 09-21-2004

The Chiefs have yet to make a TD through the air.....Sunday, the Texans will give them about 3 to be proud of....

Porky · 09-21-2004

Nothing personal to RTP, but it sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Walker and Glenn are healthy, and completely recovered from last years injuries. I haven't seen the level of agressiveness I expect out of a Dom Capers 3-4. I could specualate as to the reasons why, such as trying to cover for youth and inexperience in the secondary, but regardless, it just is not there. It's clear to me that without the all out blitzes, and other agressive manuevers, this defense will simply be terrible. If you can't stop teams on third and long, you are toast. Just as with the offense, there is plenty of blame to go around, including the coaching, scheme, game plan, and players. They have to buck it up. The schedule doesn't get any easier from here.

texan279 · 09-21-2004

Quote:

Nothing personal to RTP, but it sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Walker and Glenn are healthy, and completely recovered from last years injuries. I haven't seen the level of agressiveness I expect out of a Dom Capers 3-4. I could specualate as to the reasons why, such as trying to cover for youth and inexperience in the secondary, but regardless, it just is not there. It's clear to me that without the all out blitzes, and other agressive manuevers, this defense will simply be terrible. If you can't stop teams on third and long, you are toast. Just as with the offense, there is plenty of blame to go around, including the coaching, scheme, game plan, and players. They have to buck it up. The schedule doesn't get any easier from here.

Right on Porky. The way our pass rush has looked so far, if we don't start blitzing, we will never get to the QB. That could make for a long season. If we could hold onto the ball and mix up the play calling a bit, we could win some games. I want to see more blitzing. I want to see more passing on 1st down. I want to see pass plays called on 2nd and short, 3rd and short. The main problem is the turnovers. Carr is 6th in the league in passing yards, 10th in the league in passer rating. Our offense is 10th in the league in total yards. Our defense is 11th in the league in total yards allowed. Our offense is 6th in the league in 3rd down %. But our defense 2nd to last in the league in points allowed and our offense is 19th in the league in points scored. What does all of that say? Our offense moves the ball, but doesn't score, or turns the ball over. Our defense doesn't allow that many yards, but teams are scoring on us because they don't have far to move the ball because they are getting possession off of our turnovers close to the end zone. Take away at least some of the turnovers, we are 2-0, and one of the better teams in the NFL...frustrating. Just my

Wolf · 09-21-2004

I agree with most of you. I am suprised we aren't blitzing and being agressive. We are still letting the QB get 4+ seconds to throw the ball and the secondary is getting burned. So what! we have a rookie CB on one side.I didn't see Dallas complaining that they had Newman when he was a rookie. Getting pressure on the QB will help the rookie out where he doesn't have to cover for so long and that goes for Glenn too.

Not taking anything away from Detroit.. Their OL is really good at keeping the QB on their feet (and QB good at getting rid of the ball).

War_Eagle · 09-22-2004

In watching the games, the Texans look "Lost" on defense. I understand that we have rookies and people playing new positions, but we have guys out of position, confusion in the huddle and getting beat off the snap. Maybe after a few more games the defense will start to mesh, but right now they are getting out played, out coached and out hustled! Just my opinion, but frustrated like all of you are.......

Meloy · 09-22-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by War_Eagle

In watching the games, the Texans look "Lost" on defense. I understand that we have rookies and people playing new positions, but we have guys out of position, confusion in the huddle and getting beat off the snap. Maybe after a few more games the defense will start to mesh, but right now they are getting out played, out coached and out hustled! Just my opinion, but frustrated like all of you are.......

I do not disagree with you but our defensive line with exception of Smith has played 3-4 before this season. Most of our linebackers except for Babin have at least one year & Babin is doing ok. Glenn, Brown and Coleman have 2 years in system. Even @ Safety Coleman should have some idea what's going on. Our right corner should be only weakness. IT AIN"TTHE 3-4! The guys have just got to get it done. I want to see Foreman, Walker and Payne chew some butt and get guys rolling. We have a good team on paper, just need to translate that into on the field action.

War_Eagle · 09-23-2004

Who's blaming the 3-4? I said the defense looks lost on the field. Unsure of what to do. Getting beat on the line, No pressure up front, Hell,they couldn't even describe the opposing QB in a police lineup! A pep talk is O.K. if your into that, but I think better defensive play calls and a little more intensity and hustle will do alot more to solve there problems.

**edo783** · 09-23-2004

I see a passivness on both sides of the ball. It is like they are waiting for something to happen and then to react to it. It's a bit like a counter puncher in boxing. In pro ball I don't think we can get away with that type of operation we will get beat to the punch everytime. I am concerned about the team philosophy. If we lay back in an attempt to prevent the other teams operation rather than attacking the other team, we will be in for a VERY long season indeed.

ThaShark316 · 09-23-2004

To me,our "weak" link on defense is that of Eric Brown. I'm not blaming big E for the defense's shortcomings,but some1 was gettin burnt by some TE from San Diego (coughGATEScough). It also seems like our "3-4" defense isnt as aggressive as,say the Ravens or Steelers. The defense we have aren't aggressive as we ant them to be on 3rd downs.

About the Thread Starter's reason why the Defense is struggling...You make a valid point,but it doesnt excuse the fact that we cant get any pressure on the QB. To me,thats our #1 Problem....we suck in regards to getting pressure on the QB,I don't what it is,but i've notice this for a while now. (LOL I'm sure yall have too)

Hopefully sunday,the Texans can play as a collective unit and pull one out in KC.

09-21-2004	#2
Wolf 100% Texan Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kerrville Age: 43 Posts: 35,810 Rep Power: 40226	I am trying to have patience, but I thought we did more with less last year. And maybe it is just my expectations were too high or that I am already getting frustrated, but you make a good point __________________ People who say that they don't know what to get me for my birthday have obviously never been to a liquor store

09-21-2004	#9
NoBullTexan Veteran Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jersey Village Age: 76 Posts: 225 Rep Power: 10	IMO our defense is still evolving. However the coaches should share some of the blame because we have used nothing but the vanilla 4 man rush. Last night on MNF I saw the Iggles bring people from all over the field. Culpepper never got a read on where they were coming from. We should be incorporating more of that in our defensive schemes. __________________ NoBullTexan

09-21-2004	#12
SBTexans08 All Pro Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 3rd Coast Age: 33 Posts: 677 Rep Power: 10	The Chiefs have yet to make a TD through the air.....Sunday, the Texans will give them about 3 to be proud of.... __________________ MY XBOX 360 GAMER PROFILE

09-21-2004	#13
Porky Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 49 Posts: 11,346 Rep Power: 15601	Nothing personal to RTP, but it sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Walker and Glenn are healthy, and completely recovered from last years injuries. I haven't seen the level of agressiveness I expect out of a Dom Capers 3-4. I could specualate as to the reasons why, such as trying to cover for youth and inexperience in the secondary, but regardless, it just is not there. It's clear to me that without the all out blitzes, and other agressive manuevers, this defense will simply be terrible. If you can't stop teams on third and long, you are toast. Just as with the offense, there is plenty of blame to go around, including the coaching, scheme, game plan, and players. They have to buck it up. The schedule doesn't get any easier from here. __________________ Your local CruiseOne Vacation specialist. www.firstclasscruising.biz Visit me on Facebook.

09-21-2004	#15
Wolf 100% Texan Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kerrville Age: 43 Posts: 35,810 Rep Power: 40226	I agree with most of you. I am suprised we aren't blitzing and being agressive. We are still letting the QB get 4+ seconds to throw the ball and the secondary is getting burned. So what! we have a rookie CB on one side.I didn't see Dallas complaining that they had Newman when he was a rookie. Getting pressure on the QB will help the rookie out where he doesn't have to cover for so long and that goes for Glenn too. Not taking anything away from Detroit.. Their OL is really good at keeping the QB on their feet (and QB good at getting rid of the ball). __________________ People who say that they don't know what to get me for my birthday have obviously never been to a liquor store

09-20-2004	#1
RTP2110 Hall of Fame Join Date: May 2004 Location: North Shore Age: 33 Posts: 2,782 Rep Power: 1844	In Defense of the Defense I know has looked pretty bad so far this season, and there's really no excuse for any team to play the way they have at times. Let's just remember a few things though... Payne is coming back from injury Glenn is coming back from injury Walker is coming back from injury Babin is a rookie Robinson is a rookie Coleman is at a new position Wong is a new position Smith is at a new postion That's 8 of 11 guys making some kind of transition. The defense has been ugly to this point, but I think the most important thing for them will be how we finish the season and not how we start. If we finish the season strong on D, or improve near mid-season, we'll be looking real good along with a strong, improving offense. These guys on defense just need a little time to gel together.

09-21-2004	#3
CaliforniaTexan Rookie Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 32 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0	I know my expectations were high. I thought the defense got a pretty good lift and that we'd be an easy 10-6. I agonized over waiting for the Lions game score to show up on the screen on ESPN. It's only been two games so maybe someone'll light a fire under someone's ***. ... I hope... :~

09-21-2004	#4
bckey Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 2,119 Rep Power: 8310	Payne and Walker are older and coming off injuries. We should have addressed the dl somewhere in the draft. Looks like V. Wilfork is going to be a stud for New England. As far as Capers goes I have never liked him as a head coach. I was very disappointed when he was announced as our coach. IMHO he is a defensive cordinator that shouldn't be a head coach kind of like Buddy Ryan. I still support the Texans no matter what. It is kind of like when the Oilers had Glanville or Pardee. You still love the team.

09-21-2004	#5
Meisterman Veteran Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 139 Rep Power: 9	Lets hope things get better because having 2 of the worst teams in the league imposing their will on this defense doesn't help. I can't really say anything positive about the secondary play...so I guess there is nowhere to go but up.

09-21-2004	#6
nunusguy Hall of Fame Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston Posts: 8,991 Rep Power: 183	In our first year in 2002 the D was impressive and drew rave reviews from many sources while the offense was inept. But 2 years can make a really big difference (sometimes a single season can). Coleman, Payne, Walker, Glenn, Sharper are @ or > 30 now. Look at Jason Gilden, the former LB with the Steelers - one year he's a star and the next can't make anyones team. Skill levels deteriorate very rapidly for some, others might make it into their late 30s and still perform to a high level. And players don't have the same kind of resilance coming off injuries when they are 30 or > compared to 25. Jeff Posey was the sack leader that year and was the only effective pass rusher we have had to date - but surely his absense can't make that much difference. Wong, Babin, and and/or Peek have atleast Posey's level of skill. This week, for the first time this season, they will face a truly formidable offense. Gonna be real interesting to see how that plays out.

09-21-2004	#7
JDizzle Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,842 Rep Power: 1891	While we're on the topic of D, has anyone noticed Jay Foreman? I don't watch him that much, but it seems to me he's being a bit more nosey around the LOS, compared to his usual heel tackling from last season.

09-21-2004	#8
aj. Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 4,769 Rep Power: 657	That's what having Walker, Payne, and Robaire up front will do for the LBs, as opposed to Corey Sears, Steve Martin and Jerry DeLoach. The defense played well in the first half at Detroit. They just need to figure out how to play well for two halves. Kind of like the offense...

09-22-2004	#16
War_Eagle Rookie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Age: 53 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	In watching the games, the Texans look "Lost" on defense. I understand that we have rookies and people playing new positions, but we have guys out of position, confusion in the huddle and getting beat off the snap. Maybe after a few more games the defense will start to mesh, but right now they are getting out played, out coached and out hustled! Just my opinion, but frustrated like all of you are.......

09-23-2004	#18
War_Eagle Rookie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Florida Age: 53 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	Who's blaming the 3-4? I said the defense looks lost on the field. Unsure of what to do. Getting beat on the line, No pressure up front, Hell,they couldn't even describe the opposing QB in a police lineup! A pep talk is O.K. if your into that, but I think better defensive play calls and a little more intensity and hustle will do alot more to solve there problems.

09-23-2004	#19
edo783 Site Contributor Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, again. Posts: 7,700 Rep Power: 4640	I see a passivness on both sides of the ball. It is like they are waiting for something to happen and then to react to it. It's a bit like a counter puncher in boxing. In pro ball I don't think we can get away with that type of operation we will get beat to the punch everytime. I am concerned about the team philosophy. If we lay back in an attempt to prevent the other teams operation rather than attacking the other team, we will be in for a VERY long season indeed. __________________ De Oppresso Liber

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09-23-2004	#20
ThaShark316 #28 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Rosharon, TX Age: 27 Posts: 2,277 Rep Power: 8459	To me,our "weak" link on defense is that of Eric Brown. I'm not blaming big E for the defense's shortcomings,but some1 was gettin burnt by some TE from San Diego (coughGATEScough). It also seems like our "3-4" defense isnt as aggressive as,say the Ravens or Steelers. The defense we have aren't aggressive as we ant them to be on 3rd downs. About the Thread Starter's reason why the Defense is struggling...You make a valid point,but it doesnt excuse the fact that we cant get any pressure on the QB. To me,thats our #1 Problem....we suck in regards to getting pressure on the QB,I don't what it is,but i've notice this for a while now. (LOL I'm sure yall have too) Hopefully sunday,the Texans can play as a collective unit and pull one out in KC.

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