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Old 09-22-2004   #41
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DD scored a 1000+ yards last year in how many games? We change our offensive blocking scheme to better serve the run. What does that do? Generally a blocking scheme designed for the run is not an effective pass blocking scheme. Oh, so Carr is getting a lot more pressure this year!!! I wonder why? The root cause of the problems is our coaches and their fixation on the run. Yes, its important, but they have gone overboard again. At the end of last year our line was beginning to come together and give David some protection. It wasn't perfect, but it was a lot better than this year. DD was doing well out of that scheme. Once again, don't fix what is working. Injuries hurt us more than anything at the end of the season. Some people are saying people are busting right up the middle to get to our QB. Doesn't surprise me at all. To create a pocket for the passer is a very different process that trying to create lanes or holes for the RB. You need space for the runner, but when protecting the passer you won't no holes. I'm sorry, but no one really is catching on to what is happening. Again, quit blaming the players and look to the coaches. They are the problem visa vi their offensive philosophies.
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Old 09-22-2004   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Some people are saying people are busting right up the middle to get to our QB. Doesn't surprise me at all. To create a pocket for the passer is a very different process that trying to create lanes or holes for the RB. You need space for the runner, but when protecting the passer you won't no holes.
I understand what you are saying but, I have to imagine that david lets the oline know when they are going to run the ball or pass the ball. On a run play oline adjust to create holes for DD to run through. On pass plays oline tries to prevent holes from opening to better give David the time he needs to throw the ball. I can't really give examples and will have to go back and watch the games, but I just have to assume the line play changes depending on the call.
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Old 09-22-2004   #43
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I thought about that to. They select a Quaterback #1 ovrl. and give him talented wrs and then put a line in place thats strength is running the ball. I mean I wouldn't have a problem with it if the line was more balanced. They need to get better at pass protection fast. Balance is what we need.
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Old 09-22-2004   #44
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Hey I just became a vet. damn I was wondering when that was going to happen
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Old 09-22-2004   #45
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Originally Posted by cyanides
I understand what you are saying but, I have to imagine that david lets the oline know when they are going to run the ball or pass the ball. On a run play oline adjust to create holes for DD to run through. On pass plays oline tries to prevent holes from opening to better give David the time he needs to throw the ball. I can't really give examples and will have to go back and watch the games, but I just have to assume the line play changes depending on the call.
I believe you will find that the offensive line men are spaced further apart and you don't change the look for the pass as that would key the defense as to your intentions. I'm sorry, but I think this is a very big part of the problem. When you set up as a passing team you are not going to be as good a running team and vice versa. You have to judge what your strengths are and choose accordingly. Unfortunately, I believe our coaching staff has a fixation with the run. That is not the strength of this group of offensive players.
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Old 09-22-2004   #46
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I gotcha. I hadn't thought about that. Your comment makes more sense to me now.
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Old 09-22-2004   #47
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Again, quit blaming the players and look to the coaches. They are the problem visa vi their offensive philosophies.
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. If you don't want to hold the players accountable for not executing, then you have no business pointing any fingers at the coaches.

First off, the zone blocking scheme that is used on running plays doesn't have thing to do with pass protection. Or in the Texans case, the lack of it. Carr didn't have any more time to throw last year as he does this year. As a matter of fact, i don't recall any game of their existence where Carr has had more time to thow than the opposing quarterback. NEVER! The reason why Carr has to dump it off to Davis all the time, is because the offensive line is not giving him enough time to look downfield. If you watched last night's game, all Daunte Culpepper could do was dump it off because his line was giving him time to look downfield. Blaming the coaches because the OL isn't protecting the QB is a lame copout.

They're getting beat in the trenches, both in the DL and OL. That is why the opposing QB always has more time to throw than Carr does, even in the games that they have won. And like I said in another thread, even though they are getting whipped upfront on BOTH sides of the ball, Carr is still putting up decent numbers. And if it weren't for the turnovers, we'd still be 2-0.

But the bottom line is this. Untill both the defensive and offensive lines have a chance to develop into cohesive units, and actually be on the right side of the "time to throw" department, they are not a good football team.

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Old 09-22-2004   #48
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I believe you will find that the offensive line men are spaced further apart and you don't change the look for the pass as that would key the defense as to your intentions. I'm sorry, but I think this is a very big part of the problem.
Ibar Harry! you are making an excellent point and I am all over it. I think our line splits are indeed larger. When you are a running team you want big healthy splits and perhaps we are having a hard time adjusting to them in our pass protections. It may take till the bye week to adjust to our new blocking schemes. You just gave me something to look at when I watch the game for the 3rd time tomorrow.
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Old 09-22-2004   #49
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Originally Posted by cyanides
I gotcha. I hadn't thought about that. Your comment makes more sense to me now.
You said you were going to rewatch the games. Do so and let me know what you think. You might gain some insight if you have an open mind. To pass protect you need to build a pocket and that is very different from the process of opening up a hole or lane for the running back. The emphasis has changed to create a whole for the running back. I just personally believe that this new blocking scheme has hurt the deveopment of our O-line and team. There are obviously people who believe otherwise and they are free to do so. However, keep an open mind and check for yourself.
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Old 09-22-2004   #50
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I just personally believe that this new blocking scheme has hurt the deveopment of our O-line and team.
So based upon this, are you suggesting that they abandon the zone blocking scheme?
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Old 09-22-2004   #51
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I rewatched the game last night and one thing I saw, espeicialy on the first sack on David was our Oline is getting beat off the ball. I mean I paused the game and ran slow mo and their whole Dline was already charching before any player(our whole line) could get out of their stance. It made me think does David have some tendency that opposing defenses picked up on in the film room and is he giving away the snap count. Now I didnt review every play because it was late. I'm going to go back and check the whole game today, but we were beaten badly off the ball. Also on another sack on David I saw the defense just brought a extra blitzer and nobody picked him up, nobody even looked at him. Now that and the penelties is just a lack of disipline. One thing is for sure, they better get this problem solved.
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Old 09-22-2004   #52
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Quite frankly I don't know if they can abandon the scheme nor would they want to, because they have such a fixation on the run. But they may have to make a lot of adjustments to fix it, if its fixable. I'm sorry but the run and DOM are linked at the hip. I think the problem is they view the pass too negatively probably as some of us would be said to view the pass to positively. There is a compromise somewhere in between. My main grip is that I believe they have set up the line to emphasize the run when we really don't have a running team. Our strength lies in passing the ball, but we have to run the ball also to be effective. Protecting a QB like David has to be of prime concern. At some point you are going to pass and hopefully it doesn't become kill the QB time for the other team.
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Old 09-22-2004   #53
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The Texans are not going to abandon their blocking scheme and they don't run the ball any more than most NFL teams do, and we clearly are a better running team than a passing team. Carr only threw for 9 TD passes last year. How can that make anyone think that we are a passing team at heart?
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Old 09-22-2004   #54
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by the way how many times has Carr been sacked already this season
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Old 09-22-2004   #55
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by the way how many times has Carr been sacked already this season
I'm not sure I understand that answer...

Anyhoo, some of that is on Carr. Rob Johnson took tons of sacks in Buffalo and when they put Flutie in the sacks dropped tremendously with the same linemen. Carr has to do a better job with the pass rush as well.
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Old 09-22-2004   #56
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I believe we can be great at both. One thing I would like to see though is more play action bombs down the field, Also David was a year younger and was hurt last year so I'm going to use this year to establish a judgement on his abilities and growth and so far I like what I see. Two touchdown passes so far, on pace for a 16 td season. I think hell pas for about 20 though.
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Old 09-22-2004   #57
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Vinny, I believe we have far better and more receivers than running backs. David can throw the ball if he has protection. I know you don't agree, but I believe that is the case. I also believe DD has been effective because of the fear of the pass. He is a better runner when we are successful with the pass. Again there are two offensive philosophies. One is the run establishes the pass and the other is the pass establishes the run. I believe our team fits the latter mode of operation, but we have not been as successful because of our O-line. This should have been a good year for us, but it has turned sour. I believe the changing of the blocking scheme to emphasize the run is the major reason why. AGAIN I'M NOT ADVOCATING NOT RUNNING. Its the primary emphasis on setting up to run and all its implications for the passing game that I'm complaining about.

Bye the way I appreciated your earlier comment that you would look closely at the game replays. I hope you do and I hope you see what I'm saying. I think its more of a problem than people realize.
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Old 09-22-2004   #58
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Originally Posted by Vinny
Some of that is on Carr. Rob Johnson took tons of sacks in Buffalo and when they put Flutie in the sacks dropped tremendously with the same linemen.
Rob Johnson was a statue in the pocket. He holds onto the ball longer than any QB ever. You put anyone in at QB and they will take less sacks than him. In our last game I would not put any one of the sacks on Carr. Rob Johnson. When he would go to the sidelines I think he had the trainers put cement on his shoes so he couldn't move around.
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Old 09-22-2004   #59
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Originally Posted by Carr Bomb
I believe we can be great at both. One thing I would like to see though is more play action bombs down the field, Also David was a year younger and was hurt last year so I'm going to use this year to establish a judgement on his abilities and growth and so far I like what I see. Two touchdown passes so far, on pace for a 16 td season. I think hell pas for about 20 though.
You are right about one thing. Everything we expect out of Carr is potential and potential alone. We have no great comebacks where he took over a game with his arm. We have no 3 TD days to savor. We don't have any thrilling 30-35 point shoot outs we have won. We will have to wait to see if one day that is possible. I'm waiting to see it happen.
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Old 09-22-2004   #60
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Rob Johnson was a statue in the pocket. He holds onto the ball longer than any QB ever. You put anyone in at QB and they will take less sacks than him. In our last game I would not put any one of the sacks on Carr. Rob Johnson. When he would go to the sidelines I think he had the trainers put cement on his shoes so he couldn't move around.
Um, I assume you didn't watch many games with Johnson. Rob Johnson was as mobile as Carr and is as fast as any qb not named Michael Vick. Frankly, Johnson is probably faster than Carr but he had a poor feel for a pass rush and miserable field vision and tended to lock on to his wr's. Your characterization of Johnson is wide right.
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