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Old 09-21-2004   #21
Txnpride
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It takes time to develop a GOOD Q.B.It takes even longer to make a GREAT one.If D.D hadnt fumbled the ball in the last two games,we would be 2 and 0.I watched the game again yesterday,and he (DAVID) had a look in his eyes I didnt like,(only in the 2nd quater)as if he didnt have any confidence....maybe he was sick,but he didnt look like the David Carr I have been watching.This weekend will be a good chance to get the offense rolling up some big numbers.Someone on our defense needs to step up and be a leader on the field and in the locker room,I dont care if its Sharper,G-funk whom ever...someone needs to take control and light a fire under their ***s.I am very disapointed on our defenses play so far this year,I really was expecting our defense to light some people up,as for DDs fumbles.....I still cant believe what I am seeing....but I believe we can fix it.I dont know how old you are,but I remember back in the old oiler days after losing a couple of games, coming back and winning 11 in a row.We are still a third year team....maybe we ALL got our hopes up little to soon
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Old 09-21-2004   #22
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We're losing because of fumbles. No fumbles and we're 2-0 right now, talking about how we think we're gonna stomp all over poor KC. The play calling is too predictable, but, when you think about it, it's working. We are winning these games in every category, except turnovers and final score.

I did watch the game, but I was surprised too find out that we actually had 5 sacks against us. Carr was under way more pressure than I thought and that explains a lot about why he keeps dumping off to DD. They're not protecting Carr and that's why the coaches only want to pass when they have to--3rd and long (long is a relative term).

I don't think we we should judge Carr or the coaches when DD keeps dropping the ball and Carr is getting sacked 5 times in a game. It's amazing we scored as much as we did. Throw in a kickoff return against us and we really had it rough.

David Carr is not nearly as good as he will be, but he's getting there and I can't see any major flaws. Someone said that he is Capers baby (or something similar) and he is probably deserving of that. We're not talking about that QB that Dallas finally let go this preseason or the one that Pittsburgh's Cowher used to love so much. Carr has real talent and a brain in his head to go with it. I see him as a bonafide future star in this league and he's made fewer rookie mistakes than I would have actually expected.

Last edited by HJam72; 09-21-2004 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 09-21-2004   #23
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IMO i think the team is doing good and everyone is looking good, i think no one on the TEAM is to blame, i think its the coaching whether it's Capers or Palmer, i know the coaches aren't the one's thats playing the game but when your running back gets 11 receptions when you have 4 explosive receivers shows you that your not calling the right plays, we're looking like the chargers of last year but the difference is that we actually do have receivers come on we need to get it together n get a win
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Old 09-21-2004   #24
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I said that in a post during the game. All they do is run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... run,run,pass..... Its like a skipping record,
No....all you remember is run, run, pass - and only when it fails. I'd suggest watching the game more closely or at least reading the gamebook before propogating the myth. They do it, like a lot of teams, but it's far from "all they do."

Last edited by aj.; 09-21-2004 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 09-21-2004   #25
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Carr can only do so much. He needs others (O-line and the Big D) to help him out. Tom Brady could have a team that didn't preform around him but would that make his greatness any less?
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Old 09-21-2004   #26
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Lions only scored on one of the fumbles, and won by 2 TD's. You would be 1 - 1 without the fumbles. Lions beat you, quit making excuses. The better team won.
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Old 09-21-2004   #27
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Lions only scored on one of the fumbles, and won by 2 TD's. You would be 1 - 1 without the fumbles. Lions beat you, quit making excuses. The better team won.
One of those touches was a runback. Maybe we're not giving Detroit's pass rush enough credit (I have no idea), but they won the turnover ratio 3-1 and obviously beat us on special teams. That's the biggest difference in the game. Take away those 2 fumbles and take back that runback--what have you got? Houston wins. I think what we're saying here is that the Texans should be better than what they're doing, not that Detroit isn't good.

I'm absolutely not telling you what to do, but, if you don't want to hear about the Lions game, maybe you should take a break from here until next week or a few days, anyway. We're furious about those 2 fumlbes and what might've been. You probably don't want to hear it.

Last edited by HJam72; 09-21-2004 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 09-21-2004   #28
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Everyone can stop talking about us getting rid of Carr, it won't happen. He was our first pick. The front office built our offense around him. He is a franchise player. It would be three years wasted if we got rid of him.
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Old 09-21-2004   #29
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Unlike alot of you, I actually think Carr will be a good QB. I haven't watched as many games as all of ya'll, but from what I've seen, he has the tools. A ton of sacks (oline), fumbles, and conservative play calling hurt him. He will be fine, just an outsiders point of view. And I might add, he may be better than Harrington.

HJam- I understand what you are saying, but ST's and TO's are a part of the game. If the Lions would have lost because of TO's I would not be saying they were the better team, but the Texans got lucky. I would say the Texans won that game fair and square, no excuses, good game. I was just saying that the Lions were a team the Texans COULD beat, not SHOULD beat, TO's or no. I think the 7:30 min drive to put the game away showed Detroit was the better team, at least last Sun.
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Old 09-21-2004   #30
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Originally Posted by HoustonLionsFan
Lions only scored on one of the fumbles, and won by 2 TD's. You would be 1 - 1 without the fumbles. Lions beat you, quit making excuses. The better team won.
The Lions only scored on one of the fumbles but the Texans did not score on either posession that ended in a fumble. A turnover has three aspects that should be clear to anyone who studies the game.

1. When you turn the ball over the opposition can and often does score and so points off of turnovers are important.

2. When you turn the ball over you have denied yourself a drive in which you might have scored. Drives that end in fumbles and interceptions are lost opportunities. Not all of them may have ended in 7 (or even 3) points but some of them may have.

3. When you turn the ball over momentum is almost always affected. Momentum is an enormous factor in who wins and who loses a football game. If you give your opponent momentum (or in the Texans case if you keep giving your opponent momentum over and over again like they have the past two weeks) it's going to turn the tide of the game.

The better team won Sunday. Of that I have no doubt. The Texans are not a very good football team right now and whether the Lions are a little bit better or are a whole lot better doesn't really matter. They were (and are until the Texans can prove otherwise) a better team. Trying to work out what's wrong with your team however isn't "making excuses". It's Texans fans on (you may have failed to notice it on your way in) the Texans board talking about why their team lost. Nothing more.
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Old 09-21-2004   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonLionsFan
Lions only scored on one of the fumbles, and won by 2 TD's. You would be 1 - 1 without the fumbles. Lions beat you, quit making excuses. The better team won.

True, Lions only scored a TD on one of DD's fumbles. We are talking turn overs in general. 12:15 in the second quarter DC throws an interception to K. Smith on Det 37 yrd line. 7:00 Joey Harrington throws a TD pass to C.Schlesinger. One score off of a turnover.

11:28 in the third quarter DD fumbles. 6:45 J.Harrington throws a TD pass to Williams. Two scores off of turnovers.

Lions 28 Texans 16. Lions win by 12. Points off of turnovers 14. In my book without the turnovers Texans win by 2.

Stats from nfl.com full play-by-play link for the game.
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Old 09-21-2004   #32
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Originally Posted by cyanides
True, Lions only scored a TD on one of DD's fumbles. We are talking turn overs in general. 12:15 in the second quarter DC throws an interception to K. Smith on Det 37 yrd line. 7:00 Joey Harrington throws a TD pass to C.Schlesinger. One score off of a turnover.
If you're going to do that, you have to mention that Texans did not score after they intercepted Harrington. That is why I omitted Int.'s. And based off that observation, 7 points off two fumbles, Lions still win by 5, all other TO's being accounted for
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Old 09-21-2004   #33
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
The Lions only scored on one of the fumbles but the Texans did not score on either posession that ended in a fumble.

It's Texans fans on (you may have failed to notice it on your way in) the Texans board talking about why their team lost. Nothing more.
You're assuming that they would have scored TD's and Detroit wouldn't have got the ball back and scored anyway. You can't do that.

FYI- Texans are my second team behind the Lions. Some of you have only talked about mistakes, but many, as in the people I was posting to, act as if the Texans SHOULD have won. I guessed you missed the point.
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Old 09-21-2004   #34
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Originally Posted by HoustonLionsFan
If you're going to do that, you have to mention that Texans did not score after they intercepted Harrington. That is why I omitted Int.'s. And based off that observation, 7 points off two fumbles, Lions still win by 5, all other TO's being accounted for
And if you are going to do that, you have to mention that the Lions got the ball back a few plays later off another DD fumble. The Lions got the win. Be happy with that and stop trying to act like 21 gimme points didn't make a difference.
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Old 09-21-2004   #35
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You're assuming that they would have scored TD's and Detroit wouldn't have got the ball back and scored anyway. You can't do that.

FYI- Texans are my second team behind the Lions. Some of you have only talked about mistakes, but many, as in the people I was posting to, act as if the Texans SHOULD have won. I guessed you missed the point.
You need to go back and read items 2 and 3 again. I am assuming nothing. I said that when you turn the ball over you not only are giving the other team an opportunity to score but you are also taking away one of yours. I never said you would score without a doubt. I also said that you are handing the other team momentum. A turnover can completely alter the flow of the game. Multiple turnovers can turn a game into a route. One look at the Texans players heads hanging after the second DD fumble told me everything I needed to know about the outcome of that game. They weren't coming back. They'd have been lucky to successfully come back to Houston after that second drop. Momentum and emotion. They go away when you turn the ball over repeatedly.

If the Texans are your second team then you must have been witness to or at least heard of the Pittsburgh game in 2002? The one where the Texans were beaten badly in every possible statistical catagory but the Steelers continued to make mistakes and turned the ball over again and again?

The Steelers moved the ball well all day long but had drives repeatedly turned into Texans points through interceptions. Now certainly that is an extreme example but it remains valid. As the game progressed the Texans, despite being absolutely pitiful everytime the offense walked onto the field seemed to take control of the game. The Steelers grew less effective and were clearly pressing.
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Old 09-21-2004   #36
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And if you are going to do that, you have to mention that the Lions got the ball back a few plays later off another DD fumble.
Ummm... I did mention he TO.


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... stop trying to act like 21 gimme points didn't make a difference.
If that's what you have to tell yourself, OK. But a kick return is by no means a 'gimme'. And it's not like the Lions picked up the fumble from the 1 yd line and walked it in. Or returnrd the Int for a TD. They actually drove the shortened field. Over 40 yds on each if I remeber right, that is in no way a 'gimme.' Maybe you should blame the Def for not stopping them after the TO?
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Old 09-21-2004   #37
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Herv- I didn't need to read the items again, it was too much of the coulda, shoulda, woulda game. Yes, TO change games, but they are part of the game. Same as ST's. The better teams excel at not turning the ball over, capitalizing on TO's, and playing better ST's, Nuff Said.
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Old 09-21-2004   #38
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Originally Posted by aj.
No....all you remember is run, run, pass - and only when it fails. I'd suggest watching the game more closely or at least reading the gamebook before propogating the myth. They do it, like a lot of teams, but it's far from "all they do."

I was exaggerating I thought that was obvious, so stop nick picking. Also I do watch the game closely I tape them and review them and I know what I see. The offense is a little too conservative and they dont do it like alot of teams(did you watch last nights game, hell did you watch the team that we played again last week). They still could of beat the teams in the first two weeks with that offense though if it wasn't for the sloppy play. But If we're going to consistently be able to compete against elite defenses(like the ones playoff caliber teams have) were going to have to make the playcalling a little more complex and deceptive, thats all I'm saying. JMO
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Old 09-22-2004   #39
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Ok leave Carr alone with those kind of numbers we should be 2-0 maybe he needs to hold D.D hand while he runs the ball and then maybe we could win a few games ! I dunno all this bad talking Carr is really getting old what more do you want ????? I mean we dont have much of a line and he's still kicking *** on tha stat sheets (i know but no wins) Well they will come when we limit the turnovers and or defense steps up !!
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Old 09-22-2004   #40
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who were you replying to?
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