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Old 09-20-2006   #1
Barkley
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There has been a lot of spirited debate between Texans fans regarding support of the team moving forward. The glass half empty type of people (of which I am a member................suprise, suprise) have criticised the team for poor draft choices and poor management. The glass half full type of people have criticised the team as well for the same things. That said, most of the positive folks have pulled out the old "you are not a true fan card". The fact is that we negative folks love the team just much as the positive folks. We just dont find incompentence acceptable, and we are going to call a spade a spade. We WANT the team to do well, but they are terrible Hell, I rooted for the Oilers for 30 years (when they were be bad, AND when they choked in the playoffs 3 years in a row in the 1990's) and I have baggage from that. Please dont call us bandwagon fans because we are NOT, we just want this team to do well, and we are going to call it like we see it.
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Old 09-20-2006   #2
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we are going to call a spade a spade.
Well then can you call "incompentence" incompetence as well?

Haven't seen a whole lot of true fan cards being flung out this week--maybe a touch of martyr syndrome though.
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Old 09-20-2006   #3
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You're supposed to stick by your team through thick and thin...whether you think they'll end up in the Super Bowl is a whole other thing.
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Old 09-20-2006   #4
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As a longtime fan of professional football in Houston (1978 on) who has lived elsewhere the whole time (Pacific Northwest & Colorado) one of my concerns about the Texan complainers is that they reinforce the notion that Houston fans are fickle. I have put up with decades of pictures of empty seats in the Astrodome, "Save the Oilers" rallies that drew not thousands but dozens, etc that tell the rest of the country Houston doesn't really know how to support football. It has been good to see Reliant Stadium full the first 4 seasons, but I worry that the glass half full people will help once again turn the tide and cause people around the country to say, "Houston just can't get behind a team." I only wish Houston had the fan loyalty of places like Denver and Cleveland. I know the age old excuses about lack of support for the Oilers being linked to Bud Adams and his incompetence. It's time, however, for the city to wake up, look in the mirror, and say, "It's time to stop complaining about others perceptions of us and turn this thing around for ourselves." I for one am willing to do my part in Colorado (I defended the team against rabid Broncos fans at Invesco field during the preseason game, and I take on Texan mockers each week at the sports bar I watch the games at). I'm hoping that the rest of the folks in Housto will do their part as well.
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Old 09-20-2006   #5
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If you are on a road trip with 2 other guys..and you get lost..and one guy says:

"Well lets break out the map. We cant be that far off course"

and the other says:

"what the HELL were you thinking? Good god I told you we should have just taken the bus, now we are lost and we are probably all going to die in some backwoods shed. Thanks alot for killing us you jerk.. I wanted to have kids some day and now im never gonna get the chance. Its all your fault that we are here and its all your fault that we are dead and I just want you to know that im never going to forgive you for this and my soul will haunt your family for all of eternity. You suck and I hope you die painfully"

Which guy are you gonna kick out of the car?


Your post makes it sound as though we are all being reasonable and logical, we just have different opinions. Its kind of hard to support that theory though.

There are some undeniable truths that many of the "glass half empty" fans refuse to recognize.. like its too early to call Williams a bust.. and its too early to dog on Kubiak..

Additionally, while I can understand a certain degree of unhappiness when the team does something you dont like (like passing on Bush) I cant understand a person who calls themself a "fan" spending months picking apart everything the team does and constantly saying "Well if we had done what I said to do, we wouldnt be in this position". That isnt being a fan.. thats just being a punk.

A fan, in my mind, has the courage and good sense to say "the past is the past" and keep on hoping that the moves we have made will pay dividends in the future. That doesnt mean that there is not a time when it is alright to say "ok, this just isnt working"... such as last season when we went 2 and 14..

I guess you could say there is a grey area.. I am going to call this area "The loyalty zone". The loyalty zone is the period of time exists between the point where your team makes a decision you dont agree with, and the point where you call them out on it.

For the "glass half full" types..they have a Loyalty zone that can stretch for miles. They have patience and they will wait it out and let things run thier cycle before they say "its time for a change". Some glass half empty types get annoyed with this because they think that the positive guys cant see whats in front of thier face.. but they can..they just have made the decision to be LOYAL to the team and see where they are going with it before they raise hell.

The "glass half empty" types can have a very small loyalty zone.. they do not want to wait and see what the team is planning.. they want results right now, and if they dont get the results they want right now, then they arent shy about pointing out that they wanted to go a different route, and they want answers as to why thier team didnt go down the path that THEY wanted..because they are arrogant enough to believe that thier way would have had much better results.

As you can see, im a bit biased in this.

Fact of the matter is that I can see our weaknesses as well as you can, the difference is that what I call a weakness, you call a mistake. A weakness can be improved until it is a strength, while a mistake is still a mistake, no matter what. Just as you cant understand why the positive people arent up in arms, I cant understand why the negative people refuse to give things a chance to develop. You would think that a football dynasty can be created in one offseason, judging by the posts by some people here.

Of course, thier argument is that we have had 4 years. I find that to be a pretty lame view of things. Yah we have had a franchise for 4 years.. but we have only had this coach, and this philosophy, for 1 offseason. I dont see Cardinal fans yelling at thier head coach cause he has had decades to make a superbowl franchise...that would just be stupid.

Anyway..im rambling. Suffice to say that neither side is going to agree with each other because even though they both see the same issues, they react to them in completely opposite ways. Both sides are going to stay annoyed at each other.. there is no getting around it.

Best you can do is pick your fights... focus on shooting down the extreme viewpoints that have no basis in logic.. and let all the intelligent posters talk amongst themselves.
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Old 09-21-2006   #6
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Originally Posted by Barkley View Post
There has been a lot of spirited debate between Texans fans regarding support of the team moving forward. The glass half empty type of people (of which I am a member................suprise, suprise) have criticised the team for poor draft choices and poor management. The glass half full type of people have criticised the team as well for the same things. That said, most of the positive folks have pulled out the old "you are not a true fan card". The fact is that we negative folks love the team just much as the positive folks. We just dont find incompentence acceptable, and we are going to call a spade a spade. We WANT the team to do well, but they are terrible Hell, I rooted for the Oilers for 30 years (when they were be bad, AND when they choked in the playoffs 3 years in a row in the 1990's) and I have baggage from that. Please dont call us bandwagon fans because we are NOT, we just want this team to do well, and we are going to call it like we see it.
Here is the problem.

You are forming your "glass is half-empy" opinion after two games against two of the best teams in the NFL. You are not taking into account the age of this team, they are young. You are not taking into account the fact that we are running a new system on every side of the ball. You are not taking into account we have a new coach. I could go on.

We are two freaking games into the season. For the love of god, let the season play out a little. The glass isn't half anything...only a few drops have been poured into it....give it time to fill. It might be two-thirds full / one-third empty. Noone knows yet.

BTW when you call anyone a bust after two games you lose all credability. It makes you sound ignorant.

You aren't 8 years old. Have some patience. This may be your 5th year as a Texans fan, but it is only Kubiak's 1st year coaching this team. He can't be punished for the team's past failures.
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Old 09-21-2006   #7
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You're supposed to stick by your team through thick and thin...whether you think they'll end up in the Super Bowl is a whole other thing.
Most definitely. Patience sure has run thin over the years though. I feel bad for Kubiak in that the guy came into a system that has been downtrodden after a horrible 4th season - maybe it compiled over the years, but for last season to be a bust like that.... that'll hurt your pride a bit. Kubiak comes into this thing trying to instill a winning attitude in this team and keeping the QB on his feet.

I'm not gonna throw this team under the bus, b/c I really feel they'll do what the Oilers couldn't do when they were here. And that is get to the Superbowl and actually win it. If it's w/ the main characters of this team - Carr, Williams, D. Rob, etc. - or another cast of characters it doesn't matter, this team will make it there. YEAH, I SAID IT!!!
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Old 09-21-2006   #8
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Bad football is nothing new in Houston. We've all known that we've got a sorry team. For 5 years now.

What is new is good coaching. If anybody deserves the benefit of the doubt around here, it's a coach with 3 Super Bowl rings. Is he gonna make some mistakes? Yeah...

It's possible that the guy doesn't have a clue, but he's been around enough winners to make me think he might know a little bit more than some disgruntled MB posters.

This time last year was the perfect time for whining and complaining. We had a coach that really wasn't qualified to be a head coach and players that aren't even playing in the NFL right now.

Go look at any franchise's history. When teams are really bad, they change coaches. The new coach usually brings in his own system, his own staff, and his own players. That usually means that they won't win much the first year after a coaching change. That's how it works.
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Old 09-21-2006   #9
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Maybe Texan fans should take a page from the CUBS fan book. They haven't been to the World Series in so long that no is still alive from the last time they were there. Inspite of all their hardships year after year the fan love continues to flow and the support is always there. Houston fans could learn from this!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-21-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by LBC_Justin View Post
BTW when you call anyone a bust after two games you lose all credability. It makes you sound ignorant.

You aren't 8 years old. Have some patience. This may be your 5th year as a Texans fan, but it is only Kubiak's 1st year coaching this team. He can't be punished for the team's past failures.

Well said.

I would add that people can have any point of view they want on the team, some realistic and some vindictive, some patient and some demanding, some reasonable and some silly.

All I want is for the fans to show up to the game and make a real home field advantage, even if bad things happen in the course of a game. As much as fans talk about not wanting their team to quit, I don't see Texans fans having much patience when stuff goes wrong, and over the course of 4 quarters, it is likely that some bad stuff happens (for both teams).

My problem with the bag heads and glass mostly empty people is that they are just another obstacle the team faces in a season that they have enough to worry about.

I think it is completely possible to be realistic about the team without being ugly about it.
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Old 09-21-2006   #11
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I think it is completely possible to be realistic about the team without being ugly about it.
Amen. This is the biggest problem I have with some of the posters on this board. It's possible to be realistic about your team without being ugly. Damn, I might print that out.

Barkley, no one's bagging on you for trying to be realistic about the team. But if you think anyone's going to take you seriously when you declare Mario a bust after two games, you're sorely mistaken. If you brought forth rational discourse, you would receive the same in kind. The attitude you put forth dictates how people respond to you. Some people revel in presenting a negative image to elicit negative responses - they're called trolls.

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Old 09-21-2006   #12
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Maybe Texan fans should take a page from the CUBS fan book. They haven't been to the World Series in so long that no is still alive from the last time they were there. Inspite of all their hardships year after year the fan love continues to flow and the support is always there. Houston fans could learn from this!!!!!!!!!!!
i live in chicago, just a few blocks from wrigley field, take it from me, we dont want to be anything like the cubs fans... imagine Reliant full of people who dont give a ******* about football and just want to drink and hit on each other... its not abotu the game, its about the socialising - they dont have to care about the game coz they know theyre gonna loose... but hey. this is a texans MB, not a "stupid cubs" rant, my apologies.
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Old 09-21-2006   #13
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Well said.

I would add that people can have any point of view they want on the team, some realistic and some vindictive, some patient and some demanding, some reasonable and some silly.

All I want is for the fans to show up to the game and make a real home field advantage, even if bad things happen in the course of a game. As much as fans talk about not wanting their team to quit, I don't see Texans fans having much patience when stuff goes wrong, and over the course of 4 quarters, it is likely that some bad stuff happens (for both teams).

My problem with the bag heads and glass mostly empty people is that they are just another obstacle the team faces in a season that they have enough to worry about.

I think it is completely possible to be realistic about the team without being ugly about it.
DITTO, my thoughts exactly Stephanie!! The only thing I might add is that if you are looking for "instant gratification" in the game of football, you will be sorely disappointed! It takes a lot of patience, passion for the GAME, as well as a lot of loyalty, to be able to withstand the week by week emotions a football team can put you through. Some fans can take that roller-coaster ride of emotions, and some can't. To each his own!
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Old 09-21-2006   #14
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A "new system" has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with not being able to tackle and not being able to get pressure on the QB. NOTHING! 3-4, 4-3, 4-4, 46 or whatever kind of defense you run...you've known how to TACKLE since you were in Jr. High School...how long does that hold up?
For the most part Blue...... I think we all agree that some of the basics on Defense seem to have been thrown out the window.... we don't know why, and have said as much.

Have there been many missed tackles?? I don't recall one.....
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And for many of us...YES we are taking into account a new coach. I know that everyone hates Capers, and personally, I can't stand the guy either. But the FACT is, he was successful in Carolina and he was successful in Jacksonville. Houston? Not so much.
Personally, the only thing I didn't like about Capers was his tendancy to sit on a lead no matter how small..... I can understand ball control when you're up by 20, no sense in humiliating a team...... but when you're up by a field goal, you don't shut down your offense.
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Maybe Kubiak is the "savior," but maybe he's not...I think that fans like Barkley (and myself) are ONLY trying to point out, that there are some problems with the team in it's current form. And there have been problems with it "in it's current form"...for ALL of their current and past forms.
I'm with you, as a matter of fact, I'm in several threads talking to other half full people trying to figure out exactly what those problems are.
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I can agree with this statement, here's my question. At which point to homers stop blasting fans that see it a different way, which IMO is based much more in reality than in "you're just not a true fan?" I've seen so many times in the past two weeks where season ticket holders or just occasional attendees say that they've paid their money to boo and they're gonna boo if the team does poorly. They are roasted because they aren't "fans." Why?


They're booing David.... he's had two of his best games ever, and they are booing David... it's like they expect him to be perfect...
... you don't see a problem with that??

& it's not that they are seeing things differently, it's that they are seeing things wrong..... No pressure on the QB?? Manning was throwing balls away, missing his recievers, and scrambling for 1st downs... for cry'n out loud.

McNabb as well.

You want to beat either of these QBs, then yeah you've got to get pressure on them. But you also have to be able to cover their recievers for 3 seconds.
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I think that the Texans are TRULY an Awesome Team! I love my team. But if I've gotta leave or check my brain and opinions at the turnstile gate, then what's the point?
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Old 09-21-2006   #15
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All of this will be fixed when we start winning. I know it will happen but I do not know when. I am hopefull that it starts this week. When we are winning we will have the best home field advantage in the NFL. I saw it the first 3 years and we were not even winning. Does anyone remember the Dallas game Reliant was ROCKING.

Go Texans.
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Old 09-21-2006   #16
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There has been a lot of spirited debate between Texans fans regarding support of the team moving forward. The glass half empty type of people (of which I am a member................suprise, suprise) have criticised the team for poor draft choices and poor management. The glass half full type of people have criticised the team as well for the same things. That said, most of the positive folks have pulled out the old "you are not a true fan card". The fact is that we negative folks love the team just much as the positive folks. We just dont find incompentence acceptable, and we are going to call a spade a spade. We WANT the team to do well, but they are terrible Hell, I rooted for the Oilers for 30 years (when they were be bad, AND when they choked in the playoffs 3 years in a row in the 1990's) and I have baggage from that. Please dont call us bandwagon fans because we are NOT, we just want this team to do well, and we are going to call it like we see it.
No offense, man, but you were 25 when the Oilers left town. How could you have supported them for 30 years?

Glass half empty/half full...just be glad you have a glass.
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Old 09-21-2006   #17
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This team right now is very bad. However, with all the changes that have been made since last season I am very optimistic things will get turned around. It's going to take time, perhaps more than some of anticpated. Here's one thing I am certain of: I am a die hard Texans fan and you'll find me in Section 136 8 games a year screaming loudly rooting for my Texans to win.
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Old 09-21-2006   #18
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Old 09-23-2006   #19
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Yeah OK....that was a bit of an emotional reaction. I am not TRYING to be a troll, I just want to vent about the team. If they had lost the first two games and shown some improvement, I would not have been so negative. It looked like the same team from last year and we made a very controversial decision in taking Mario over Bush. I WANT to see Mario do well, but again....he has shown absolutely NOTHING in two regular season games.
maybe you don't know what to look for?
click here - interesting thread

oh and DEs take time to develop. Mario came out as a Junior so he is even younger than the average rookie DE. The guy is going to be a monster, but he is very very young, give him time. I am personally seeing improvement each game. Of couse I actually watch him on most plays, while most fans just follow the ball. He still has a LONG way to go, but I see why they chose him.

PS don't listen to the guys at ESPN....the don't watch our team play, they have no clue what is going on with this team.
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Old 09-23-2006   #20
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Join Date: May 2006
Age: 51
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Originally Posted by Barkley View Post
Again....another personal attack. I guess I'm 8 years old now. the fact is that this team has been in existence for 5 years now and they are worse than year 1. I'm venting my frustration. I'm going to root for this team no matter what, but when they give up almost 1,000 yards of offense in the first 2 games, I am going to call them out
actually this can hardly be called the same team, if we had established guys, established systems, same coaches, and didnt show improvement that would be one thing, unfortunately we havent had that, we have changed at almost every position and every coach, both offense and defense have changed several times with the recent changes being quite drastic. teams like philly and indy and the rams and denver are what they are because they have been able to play basicly the same scheme for a long time, you get better at anything the longer you stick to it. so let's give the team a chance to absorb and perfect the new systems and new personnel before we start being so critical of them. we all want to see the texans win and be a great team, and I think they will be if we give them a chance. my
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