Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-19-2006   #1
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default Execution!

Yes, that infamous word has poped up again. It was interesting to listen to Eric Moulds and Owen Daniels on the Texan's multimedia. They said we started all over again and ran the plays we had planned in the 1st half, but we ran them a lot better the 2nd time around. I really find that interesting. Perhapes against a lesser team we will be a lot better off. May be we are learning something, its really hard to say.

I still say we have to emphasize our Passing attack over the Running attack. We need to give the Running attack time to gain some confidence and we need to take the pressure off that aspect of the game. Our strength is our receivers. Let Moulds, AJ and Daniels lead the way until the running game is ready. Its not the normal way of doing things, but I firmly believe its what we have to do with the players we have.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006   #2
ojthecat
Veteran
 
ojthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 52
Posts: 340
Rep Power: 11 ojthecat is ridin' the pine
Default

Ibar, I agree with you on the offensive side of the game it is the defense that I am having issues at the moment. It seems to me that the coaching staff has a belief that we should not commit more than our front 4 to rushing the QB. I know we do run an occasional blitz but it is reall just our front 4 plus one addtional linebacker pretty basic stuff in my book. I do belive that our offense will be much better as the season goes on. However I dont see the talent on the defensive side to run vanilla packages with sucess. I would like to see a more aggressive D that at least attemps to dictate tempo to the oponents rather that sitting back and waiting for us to make a play.
__________________
"A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."
ojthecat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006   #3
MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
Veteran
 
MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: HOUSTON
Age: 45
Posts: 382
Rep Power: 10 MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS is ridin' the pine
Default

Ouch, Charlie Casserly's and Dom Capers famous word.........:brickwall
__________________
Antwan Peek is my daughter's favorite player ! WE WILL MISS YOU ANTWAN GOOD LUCK IN CLEVELAND !
MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006   #4
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 35,126
Rep Power: 272221 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default

Please guys..... just remember the first priority, is that we learn to play the right way. Winning is secondary at this point in the season.

I'm sorry if you don't want to hear that, but until you see the same starting lineups for at least three weeks in a row(& you can't count the bye week), then we are learning....... and though we may win.... it's not the most important thing.

Playing the right way. That's what's improtant, learning to play the right way.

& don't be so hard on Kubiak and his play calling... just because you see David dump it to Wali or Jameel in the flats, doesn't mean that it was a conservative play. More than likely, the primary option was a WR.

Also, once we learn the basics, applying pressure & stopping the run with our front 4, then we can graduate to the more exotic stuff. Same on offense.... Kubiak couldn't care less if we throw the ball, or run the ball to dictate to the defense. but running the ball is basic. Until we learn to do that right, we don't need to be working fancy passing patterns.

We are going to be aggressive on offense..... we'll be looking for touchdowns on every drive. But, we are going to show our dedication to the run game, until we get it right.

We are going to be aggresive on defense...... our goal is to make the QB uncomfortable..... But our front 4 are going to be asked to provide that pressure. When they learn how to do this, it'll open up the lanes for our CB, Safeties, and LBs......
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #5
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
Please guys..... just remember the first priority, is that we learn to play the right way. Winning is secondary at this point in the season.

I'm sorry if you don't want to hear that, but until you see the same starting lineups for at least three weeks in a row(& you can't count the bye week), then we are learning....... and though we may win.... it's not the most important thing.

Playing the right way. That's what's improtant, learning to play the right way.

& don't be so hard on Kubiak and his play calling... just because you see David dump it to Wali or Jameel in the flats, doesn't mean that it was a conservative play. More than likely, the primary option was a WR.

Also, once we learn the basics, applying pressure & stopping the run with our front 4, then we can graduate to the more exotic stuff. Same on offense.... Kubiak couldn't care less if we throw the ball, or run the ball to dictate to the defense. but running the ball is basic. Until we learn to do that right, we don't need to be working fancy passing patterns.

We are going to be aggressive on offense..... we'll be looking for touchdowns on every drive. But, we are going to show our dedication to the run game, until we get it right.

We are going to be aggresive on defense...... our goal is to make the QB uncomfortable..... But our front 4 are going to be asked to provide that pressure. When they learn how to do this, it'll open up the lanes for our CB, Safeties, and LBs......
If you say so. I don't really believe the picture is as simple as this, but we shall see. Unfortunately to me it has the ring of I'm going to make the players fit my system whether they do or not. I just know I'm very disappointed in how we have looked loosing. I just can't see how loosing like this will lead to success. Two or three more games like this and you might as well kiss the season good bye.

Players like Moulds and Daniels are still upbeat, but how long can that last? Caperisms only last for so long and when they fail they leave a miserable taste in one's mouth. I just don't like the trend. Again I could understand a piece or two of the puzzle failing, but not the whole thing.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #6
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
 
Cjeremy635's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huffman, Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,695
Rep Power: 41385 Cjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
Please guys..... just remember the first priority, is that we learn to play the right way. Winning is secondary at this point in the season.

I'm sorry if you don't want to hear that, but until you see the same starting lineups for at least three weeks in a row(& you can't count the bye week), then we are learning....... and though we may win.... it's not the most important thing.

Playing the right way. That's what's improtant, learning to play the right way.

& don't be so hard on Kubiak and his play calling... just because you see David dump it to Wali or Jameel in the flats, doesn't mean that it was a conservative play. More than likely, the primary option was a WR.

Also, once we learn the basics, applying pressure & stopping the run with our front 4, then we can graduate to the more exotic stuff. Same on offense.... Kubiak couldn't care less if we throw the ball, or run the ball to dictate to the defense. but running the ball is basic. Until we learn to do that right, we don't need to be working fancy passing patterns.

We are going to be aggressive on offense..... we'll be looking for touchdowns on every drive. But, we are going to show our dedication to the run game, until we get it right.

We are going to be aggresive on defense...... our goal is to make the QB uncomfortable..... But our front 4 are going to be asked to provide that pressure. When they learn how to do this, it'll open up the lanes for our CB, Safeties, and LBs......
I agree Thunder, and with the part in bold, it seems like mainly us fans are the ones who have the most problem with the check down. I say that because I watched several teams over the last two weeks and everyone does it to some extent. The announcers on those games were all giddy when they do it because they say it's just as efficient as a running play. In theory, it is as effective as both. It may not be pretty, but most of the times the check down yields about 5-6 positive yards if not more. I'll take those few yards vs. an incomplete pass down the field or an interception in double coverage.
__________________
If it is important to you, you will find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse.
Cjeremy635 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #7
HJam72
Hall of Fame
 
HJam72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Over here.
Age: 41
Posts: 11,526
Rep Power: 73110 HJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

As long as the dump off either gets us a first down or gets us good positive yardage (good is kind of subjective here, depending on downs & field position), then I have no problem with it. What I don't want to see is dump offs to guys who are hit immediately (2 yds. downfield, or in the backfield) after the catch--at least not too often. Also, there needs to be some longer passes sometimes, but there have been some. If we had a running game or better pass protection, this offense would look fine. If we had both, it would be great. That's a big "if" if you didn't notice.
__________________

HJam72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 09-20-2006   #8
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
 
Cjeremy635's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huffman, Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,695
Rep Power: 41385 Cjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HJam72
As long as the dump off either gets us a first down or gets us good positive yardage (good is kind of subjective here, depending on downs & field position), then I have no problem with it. What I don't want to see is dump offs to guys who are hit immediately after the catch--at least not too often. Also, there needs to be some longer passes sometimes, but there have been some. If we had a running game or better pass protection, this offense would look fine. If we had both, it would be great.

I am just glad to see us throwing it down the field on a regular basis now. Atleast teams may have to worry about that option to some degree. I think as we get more comfortable in this scheme that we will see more of this as well. I agree about dumping the ball off and then get hammered as soon as you catch it for a gain of one or none. That's unnecesary for your reciever to be hung out like that when you could have got the same option from a running play.
__________________
If it is important to you, you will find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse.
Cjeremy635 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #9
gwallaia
Moderator
 
gwallaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 48
Posts: 7,504
Rep Power: 79490 gwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respectedgwallaia is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Oh?! I thought this was going to be a Fire Kubiak Thread judging by the title.
__________________


We are among the "Them"
gwallaia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #10
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
 
Cjeremy635's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huffman, Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,695
Rep Power: 41385 Cjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwallaia
Oh?! I thought this was going to be a Fire Kubiak Thread judging by the title.

No, hopefully the morons will hold off on those for atleast a couple of more seasons. People have "0" patience these days. They want to win "yesterday" and have no idea what it takes to start from ground zero again. Our team couldn't fight there way out of a bag last year and it's gonna take time to get the players/schemes the coahes want in here to execute their game plan.
__________________
If it is important to you, you will find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse.
Cjeremy635 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #11
srstex
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 55
Posts: 230
Rep Power: 9 srstex is a team player
Default Learning to play the Right way?

I find it odd that we are learning how to play the right way, when the rest of the league looks to be learning how to win. The Saints are 2-0, new coach, new scheme, new QB, new RB, new center, this list looks vaguely familiar
( except the QB ).
All I am saying is, If the pass is working, use it till somebody stops you. Which is funny considering that we are running the ball even though people are stopping us.

Reggie Bush plays 4 positions, Put Returner, Kick Off Retuner, Receiver, and Running Back, our injuries are Mathis-Kick/Punt Returner, and DD-Running Back, and we do not have a Burner on the corner. Just food for thought.
__________________
There are only two seasons in this world, football season, and the off season.
srstex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #12
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
 
Cjeremy635's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huffman, Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,695
Rep Power: 41385 Cjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respectedCjeremy635 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srstex
I find it odd that we are learning how to play the right way, when the rest of the league looks to be learning how to win. The Saints are 2-0, new coach, new scheme, new QB, new RB, new center, this list looks vaguely familiar
( except the QB ).
All I am saying is, If the pass is working, use it till somebody stops you. Which is funny considering that we are running the ball even though people are stopping us.

Reggie Bush plays 4 positions, Put Returner, Kick Off Retuner, Receiver, and Running Back, our injuries are Mathis-Kick/Punt Returner, and DD-Running Back, and we do not have a Burner on the corner. Just food for thought.

Uhh, they do! They bring the blitz and we can't pick it up most of the time. We can't do the playaction roll-outs because the run is ineffective and they don't bite on it. The pocket collapses almost immediately so I think that's the basics we are learning right now. People learning how to properly play their skilled position. They haven't in the last few seasons so you have to start sometime.
__________________
If it is important to you, you will find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse.
Cjeremy635 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #13
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
. Unfortunately to me it has the ring of I'm going to make the players fit my system whether they do or not.
Hmmm....How many coaches do you know that change their system....to fit the players.....Is that smart? Most Coaches and teams draft players to fit their system....What kind of players do we have ? What would be the best system for our players ? The system from last year ?...Our team is full of holes and weaknesses...Would you rather have him come in and try to put a patch on the situation or build something long term by implementing a proven system that works? Rome wasn't built in a day.... Of course he's going to make players fit his system...and he will get rid of the ones that he thinks can't cut it....
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #14
ArlingtonTexan
Moderator
 
ArlingtonTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 47
Posts: 6,042
Rep Power: 73193 ArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Most coaches concern themselves with execution more than play design etc. During an NFL game there are only a handful of times where the offense or defense "fools" anybody because of formation, play calling or motion. These are the things we fans get caught up in. Coaches are more worried about did everyone do what they were supposed to do on an assignment. The more times everyone does his part as designed the better the chance that a team will be successful.
ArlingtonTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #15
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srstex
Reggie Bush plays 4 positions, Put Returner, Kick Off Retuner, Receiver, and Running Back, our injuries are Mathis-Kick/Punt Returner, and DD-Running Back, and we do not have a Burner on the corner. Just food for thought.
Players that can return kicks...play WR...Run the ball....Come around every draft...They are a dime a dozen...Dominant D-Lines are a rare commodity in the NFL....Game 2...Season 1....
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #16
Honoring Earl 34
Hey Koolaid
 
Honoring Earl 34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston
Age: 51
Posts: 19,216
Rep Power: 191772 Honoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Did anyone hear Howie Long talking to Jimmy Johnson about execution ? Howie made the statement that Johnson's Cowboys only had 4 running plays ... but because of the talent and execution nobody could stop them .
__________________
I wanted to write something big .

Round Dan
Honoring Earl 34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #17
HOU-TEX 
Ah, Football!
 
HOU-TEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: P-land
Age: 43
Posts: 15,639
Rep Power: 132411 HOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
Most coaches concern themselves with execution more than play design etc. During an NFL game there are only a handful of times where the offense or defense "fools" anybody because of formation, play calling or motion. These are the things we fans get caught up in. Coaches are more worried about did everyone do what they were supposed to do on an assignment. The more times everyone does his part as designed the better the chance that a team will be successful.
Hear, Hear! It all starts at the line of scrimmage. If the o-line doesn't "execute" correctly, 75% of the time the play will be dead before it has a chance to get started.
__________________
Kubiak: "They’re battling their tail off." Translation: They suck.
OB: "They played hard with great effort." Translation: They suck.
HOU-TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #18
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
 
jerek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dublin, OH
Age: 34
Posts: 6,632
Rep Power: 11661 jerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respectedjerek is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to jerek
Default

As Vinny pointed out earlier, any defense is going to look to make the offense do what the defense thinks they are weakest at. There is only about a decade's worth of footage floating around the NFL as to what Kubiak is good at: the ZBS running game and rolling out the mobile QB. Teams will continue to make Carr beat them in the pocket, and until he proves that he can consistently do that, they will continue to predominantly load the box and take away the runs and the rollouts.

It's a simple concept and that's what we've seen a lot of in the first two games. I think Carr is showing a lot of improvement in every regard but at this point I still think our offense is at its weakest with Carr throwing inside of the pocket. Frankly he's still a little nervous in there and I think he makes much better reads and throws when he's on the run. In most cases, "running opens up the passing game" but in our case I think the reverse is true.

Our O-line has been manhandled too much and Wali Lundy has missed gaps and our receivers have dropped balls and Carr hasn't challenged upfield enough (in other words, there are numerous reasons for our offensive troubles), but all in all, I think we need to be able to pass effectively from the pocket to really open up the offense.
__________________
It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere. - Voltaire
jerek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #19
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 35,126
Rep Power: 272221 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
If you say so. I don't really believe the picture is as simple as this, but we shall see. Unfortunately to me it has the ring of I'm going to make the players fit my system whether they do or not. I just know I'm very disappointed in how we have looked loosing. I just can't see how loosing like this will lead to success. Two or three more games like this and you might as well kiss the season good bye.

Players like Moulds and Daniels are still upbeat, but how long can that last? Caperisms only last for so long and when they fail they leave a miserable taste in one's mouth. I just don't like the trend. Again I could understand a piece or two of the puzzle failing, but not the whole thing.
I hope I am not fostering any delusions.... but I feel Kubiak isn't going to force players into his system..... he's just going to get rid of the ones that don't fit. But he made good use of RodSmith, AshleyLelie, and ShannonSharp, so don't fret. We will open it up. The main thing stopping us right now, is that our QB can't see more than 10 yards downfield but twice a game, and more than 5 yards half a dozen times. He's working on it, Kubiak is on his but & the OL as well. We will get there.

The whole thing only looks to fail, because our trigger man is gun shy. Give him time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cjeremy635
The announcers on those games were all giddy when they do it because they say it's just as efficient as a running play. In theory, it is as effective as both. It may not be pretty, but most of the times the check down yields about 5-6 positive yards if not more. I'll take those few yards vs. an incomplete pass down the field or an interception in double coverage.
In the Philly game, I thought we did pretty good more times than not. But the times we didn't, really ate our goat. that's were that consistency word comes in to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HJam72
As long as the dump off either gets us a first down or gets us good positive yardage (good is kind of subjective here, depending on downs & field position), then I have no problem with it. What I don't want to see is dump offs to guys who are hit immediately (2 yds. downfield, or in the backfield) after the catch--at least not too often. Also, there needs to be some longer passes sometimes, but there have been some. If we had a running game or better pass protection, this offense would look fine. If we had both, it would be great. That's a big "if" if you didn't notice.
I'm not always fair to David Carr.... but against Indy, it looked like he was trying to set up the long ball..... he just never got around to throwing the long ball until the 4th qtr(according to his schedule, which might be something like 30 five yard passes to every 1 deep pass........ ok, I'm exagerrating some).

And if you look at the play by play for both games, Manning & McNabb threw mostly short passes that their recievers made into big plays..... mainly because our LBs didn't play as well as theirs did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srstex
I find it odd that we are learning how to play the right way, when the rest of the league looks to be learning how to win. The Saints are 2-0, new coach, new scheme, new QB, new RB, new center, this list looks vaguely familiar
( except the QB ).
All I am saying is, If the pass is working, use it till somebody stops you. Which is funny considering that we are running the ball even though people are stopping us.

Reggie Bush plays 4 positions, Put Returner, Kick Off Retuner, Receiver, and Running Back, our injuries are Mathis-Kick/Punt Returner, and DD-Running Back, and we do not have a Burner on the corner. Just food for thought.
try to understand that the Cleveland Browns & the GreenBay Packers are trying to learn to play the right way as well. The Browns most explosive player is coming off IR for the last two years, and they have some guy named frye pulling the trigger.

Greenbay lost their WRs in FA....... they lost their Center..... & I believe they lost a right gaurd.

Indy & Philly are learning how to win a Superbowl........ get it??

& take that new RB out of the equation. Their RB is a 6 year vet who has to be accounted for on every down. If he gets into the secondary, he is a real chore to bring down. The Duece is Loose is a common Catch phrase coined to describe their RBs big play ability.

So far, PBuch got hurt returning kicks...... Roc Alexander got hurt returning kicks..... trust me, if RB was here, he wouldn't be returning kicks. We've got a long list of guys who don't contribute to the offense that we can get to return kicks. & if we exhaust that list, we'll pick up someone else.

& we look pretty good at RB.

Quote:
Third Qtr 1st possesion:
Houston Texans at 08:07
1-10-HOU20 (8:07) R.Dayne up the middle to HST 20 for no gain (D.Freeney). HST-C.Spencer was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
2-10-HOU20 (7:50) D.Carr pass short right to J.Cook to HST 21 for 1 yard (N.Harper).
3-9-HOU21 (7:14) D.Carr scrambles right end to HST 23 for 2 yards (R.Mathis).
4-7-HOU23 (6:36) C.Stanley punts 43 yards to IND 34, Center-B.Pittman. T.Wilkins to IND 45 for 11 yards (B.Pittman).
Quote:
second possession
Houston Texans at 03:12
1-10-HOU21 (3:12) S.Gado right end to HST 23 for 2 yards (G.Brackett).
2-8-HOU23 (2:46) (No Huddle) D.Carr pass short middle to S.Gado to HST 26 for 3 yards (G.Gardner, G.Brackett).
3-5-HOU26 (2:08) D.Carr sacked at HST 20 for -6 yards (R.Brock). FUMBLES (R.Brock), and recovers at HST 23. D.Carr to HST 23 for no gain (G.Brackett). Minus 3 sack yards.
4-8-HOU23 (1:44) C.Stanley punts 46 yards to IND 31, Center-B.Pittman. T.Wilkins pushed ob at IND 31 for no gain.
PENALTY on HST-J.Simmons, Illegal Motion, 5 yards, enforced between downs.
Quote:
Fourth Qtr first possesion
1-10-HOU20 (14:11) R.Dayne up the middle to HST 25 for 5 yards (C.June).
2-5-HOU25 (13:49) (No Huddle) D.Carr pass deep left to A.Johnson pushed ob at HST 43 for 18 yards (J.David).
1-10-HOU43 (13:13) D.Carr pass short middle to J.Cook to IND 42 for 15 yards (M.Doss, M.Giordano) [R.Brock].
1-10-IND42 (12:43) (No Huddle) R.Dayne up the middle to IND 41 for 1 yard (G.Gardner). HST-M.Flanagan was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
2-9-IND41 (12:17) D.Carr pass incomplete short left to E.Moulds (J.David).
PENALTY on IND-J.David, Illegal Use of Hands, 5 yards, enforced at IND 41 - No Play.
1-10-IND36 (12:12) R.Dayne up the middle to IND 33 for 3 yards (G.Gardner).
2-7-IND33 (11:49) (No Huddle) D.Carr pass incomplete short left to A.Johnson.
3-7-IND33 (11:43) D.Carr pass deep right to O.Daniels for 33 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Quote:
second possesion
Houston Texans at 07:52
1-10-HOU32 (7:52) D.Carr pass short left to J.Cook to HST 36 for 4 yards (K.O'Neil) [B.Schobel].
PENALTY on IND-B.Schobel, Roughing the Passer, 15 yards, enforced at HST 36.
1-10-IND49 (7:40) D.Carr pass short left to J.Cook to IND 46 for 3 yards (K.O'Neil, R.Mathis).
2-7-IND46 (7:02) D.Carr pass short right to E.Moulds to IND 36 for 10 yards (M.Jackson, R.Boiman).
1-10-IND36 (6:20) S.Gado right tackle to IND 9 for 27 yards (M.Jackson). IND-M.Jackson was injured during the play.
1-9-IND9 (5:48) D.Carr scrambles left end ran ob at IND 1 for 8 yards (R.Boiman).
2-1-IND1 (5:17) D.Carr pass short left to M.Bruener for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
Quote:
third possesion
Houston Texans at 02:21
1-10-HOU39 (2:21) D.Carr pass short right to A.Johnson to HST 48 for 9 yards (K.O'Neil).
2-1-HOU48 (2:03) (No Huddle) D.Carr pass short left to E.Moulds to IND 38 for 14 yards (R.Boiman).
1-10-IND38 (1:56) D.Carr sacked at IND 48 for -10 yards (sack split by B.Schobel and R.Brock).
2-20-IND48 (1:28) W.Lundy up the middle to IND 39 for 9 yards (M.Giordano, R.Boiman).
3-11-IND39 (1:03) D.Carr pass short right to E.Moulds to IND 10 for 29 yards (M.Doss).
1-10-IND10 (:48) D.Carr pass short left to A.Johnson for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Where did we get away from a game plan that was working?? Where were we trying to run even though it wasn't working?? was it in the first half??

Where we opened the game with a play action pass that didn't work??

or was it our second possesion of the game??
Quote:
Houston Texans at 12:43
1-10-HOU24 (12:43) W.Lundy left tackle to HST 24 for no gain (G.Brackett, R.Mathis).
2-10-HOU24 (12:04) D.Carr sacked at HST 16 for -8 yards (R.Mathis). FUMBLES (R.Mathis), recovered by HST-Z.Wiegert at HST 17. Z.Wiegert to HST 17 for no gain (C.June). Minus 8 sack yards.
3-17-HOU17 (11:25) W.Lundy left tackle to HST 25 for 8 yards (G.Brackett, M.Jackson).
4-9-HOU25 (10:56) C.Stanley punts 38 yards to IND 37, Center-B.Pittman, fair catch by T.Wilkins.
Or our third??
Quote:
Houston Texans at 08:09
1-10-HOU44 (8:09) R.Dayne left guard to HST 47 for 3 yards (R.Brock).
2-7-HOU47 (7:35) R.Dayne up the middle to IND 45 for 8 yards (C.June, B.Sanders).
1-10-IND45 (6:59) R.Dayne right guard to IND 37 for 8 yards (C.June).
2-2-IND37 (6:24) R.Dayne up the middle to IND 40 for -3 yards (Da.Reid).
3-5-IND40 (5:47) D.Carr pass short right to E.Moulds to IND 34 for 6 yards (N.Harper).
1-10-IND34 (5:14) W.Lundy up the middle to IND 32 for 2 yards (G.Brackett).
2-8-IND32 (4:38) D.Carr pass short middle to E.Shepherd to IND 25 for 7 yards (B.Sanders).
3-1-IND25 (4:02) W.Lundy up the middle to IND 23 for 2 yards (D.Klecko).
1-10-IND23 (3:29) W.Lundy left guard to IND 19 for 4 yards (M.Reagor). FUMBLES (M.Reagor), RECOVERED by IND-M.Reagor at IND 19. M.Reagor to IND 19 for no gain (W.Lundy).
Or maybe it was our first possesion of the 2nd Qtr, when we were only down 14-0(w/Indy capitolizing on our mistakes)
Quote:
Houston Texans at 11:58
1-10-HOU20 (11:58) R.Dayne right tackle to HST 26 for 6 yards (R.Mathis).
2-4-HOU26 (11:21) D.Carr pass short middle to O.Daniels to HST 31 for 5 yards (G.Brackett).
1-10-HOU31 (10:49) R.Dayne up the middle to HST 36 for 5 yards (G.Brackett).
2-5-HOU36 (10:13) D.Carr pass incomplete short right to A.Johnson.
PENALTY on HST-J.Cook, Chop Block, 15 yards, enforced at HST 36 - No Play.
2-20-HOU21 (10:09) D.Carr pass short middle to K.Walter to HST 25 for 4 yards (C.June).
3-16-HOU25 (9:33) D.Carr pass incomplete short middle to O.Daniels (C.June).
4-16-HOU25 (9:28) C.Stanley punts 38 yards to IND 37, Center-B.Pittman. T.Wilkins to IND 44 for 7 yards (T.Evans)
Or was it our last possesion of the first half??

Quote:
Houston Texans at 05:57
1-10-HOU20 (5:57) D.Carr pass short left to O.Daniels to HST 21 for 1 yard (G.Gardner).
2-9-HOU21 (5:24) D.Carr pass short middle to J.Putzier to HST 31 for 10 yards (M.Jackson).
1-10-HOU31 (4:52) D.Carr pass short middle to O.Daniels to HST 37 for 6 yards (C.June, G.Brackett).
2-4-HOU37 (4:16) D.Carr pass short left to A.Johnson to IND 44 for 19 yards (M.Jackson, C.June).
1-10-IND44 (3:34) D.Carr pass incomplete short left to J.Cook.
2-10-IND44 (3:29) D.Carr pass short right to J.Cook to IND 33 for 11 yards (A.Bethea, G.Gardner).
1-10-IND33 (2:51) R.Dayne up the middle to IND 32 for 1 yard (M.Reagor).
2-9-IND32 (2:10) D.Carr pass incomplete short middle to S.Gado.
3-9-IND32 (2:04) S.Gado up the middle to IND 25 for 7 yards (G.Brackett, B.Sanders).
4-2-IND25 (1:58) K.Brown 43 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Pittman, Holder-C.Stanley.
Where are our runs not working?? & where did we abandon the passing game??
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2006   #20
hollywood_texan
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 3,021
Rep Power: 1649 hollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerek View Post
As Vinny pointed out earlier, any defense is going to look to make the offense do what the defense thinks they are weakest at. There is only about a decade's worth of footage floating around the NFL as to what Kubiak is good at: the ZBS running game and rolling out the mobile QB. Teams will continue to make Carr beat them in the pocket, and until he proves that he can consistently do that, they will continue to predominantly load the box and take away the runs and the rollouts.

It's a simple concept and that's what we've seen a lot of in the first two games. I think Carr is showing a lot of improvement in every regard but at this point I still think our offense is at its weakest with Carr throwing inside of the pocket. Frankly he's still a little nervous in there and I think he makes much better reads and throws when he's on the run. In most cases, "running opens up the passing game" but in our case I think the reverse is true.

Our O-line has been manhandled too much and Wali Lundy has missed gaps and our receivers have dropped balls and Carr hasn't challenged upfield enough (in other words, there are numerous reasons for our offensive troubles), but all in all, I think we need to be able to pass effectively from the pocket to really open up the offense.
Totally agree with that we have to be prove we can pass before the we can the run football. It pains me to say it, because I totally believe you have to run first to throw. Bottom line though, I am a defense guy and not a big fan of offenses because they screw things up. I am big fan of Buddy Ryan, that guy was great! Just a little background of where I am coming from.

Back to the point though, in able to run first, defenses have to have in the back of their mind the ball could be thrown at any time even though a run is more than likely coming. As for the Texans, it seems our offense has a hard time using the middle part of the field, say 15 yards or more. Which is why I am not a fan of these bootlegs on consistent basis, you can't use the entire field. In my esitmation, the problem is defenses are not concerned about the Texans throwing the football, particularly in the middle part of the field.

As said earlier, if Carr can stand in the pocket and deliver the ball downfield in the middle parts of the field, I think that will do wonders for this offense. Even incompletions will help because that shows the commitment to use the entire part of the field.

It seems right now the safeties and linebackers are really keying on the line scrimmage instead of having to protect the entire field.
hollywood_texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger