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Old 09-17-2006   #21
Ibar_Harry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I knew this was coming and I've been dreading this thread since the game ended.
Your right Herv. Again Herv we have talent and we are falling into the same trap. It really is disappointing. I'm mad because I think there is no reason this ball club should look this bad. I don't have much hair left, but after this game I have a lot less.
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Old 09-17-2006   #22
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Of course he is different than Capers. And inherited a Capers team. How about giving the guy a whole season before writing him off? We have 14 more games to go and I don't expect them all to be like the first two.
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Old 09-17-2006   #23
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I'm ticked, because we have been lied to again. Here me out before you start foaming at the mouth.

When Kubiak came here he said he would do what the players do best and are best at and capable of. Lefts talk about Indy for a moment. They have absolutely zero running game. What do they do? They use their strength the passing game to get the job done. The run is a side light to the rest of the game just like the 49ers of the past.

Folks we are in the same position. We have excellent wide receivers and TE's and what do we do? Of course you have to run the ball to Pass. That is absolute BS. Kubiak has the same 1 dimensional approach. If you can't run then its time to try the other avenue particularly when your strengths are your receivers. We should be stepping back and passing on every down instead of running twice and then getting into an obvious passing situation. Sorry, but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing and its time that all of these coaches wake up.

Defensively we have no clue. We are being eaten alive by a very good QB. However, we have seen the same think in two games and they have stated they are not going to try to put pressure on the QB. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I'm extemely disappointed in what I'm seeing.

You are going nowhere with the current play calling. They are going to call all of the plays and get results like this. Why not let Carr call his own plays it can't be any worse than what we are seeing. Let AJ and Moulds come back in the huddle and tell Carr what they think is open. The two times in the past we did that we were successful. I have never liked coaches calling the plays. I have always wanted the QB's calling the plays and the coaches telling them what they are seeing when there are problems. There are simply two different perspectives of the game. What the QB may be seeing at ground level is very different from an overhead view. However, if the QB can
t see it because of what the defense is doing, then you need to do what they can see.
If you can conjure the voice of Vincent Price to recite this in your head it will make sense, and, if not, at least be more entertaining.
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Old 09-17-2006   #24
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I see a lot of difference in the coaches.You have to give Kubs a chance to see what he really has and what he can't fix..Maybe he was lied to too.

Were not staying at the bottom ....this next off season,,i'm going to have the top FA's once again and the'll be there for the taking.We can pick them up unload cap or play them on another team..IA have a feeling this division is not going to weaken anytime soon..

I',m looking at Ike Taylor and players like that to help this team.He big young and agressive and the Steelers may not make his bail .

THIS IS A WIN NOW LEAGUE!

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Old 09-17-2006   #25
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Your right Herv. Again Herv we have talent and we are falling into the same trap. It really is disappointing. I'm mad because I think there is no reason this ball club should look this bad. I don't have much hair left, but after this game I have a lot less.
It's two games man. Just two games against very, very good opponents. It's too early for this thread but I knew you would be bringing it. Frankly I was surprised I didn't see it after last weeks game.

If we win the next two regardless of how it happens I know I'll see a thread talking about how "Kubiak finally gets it" or something.

In the words of Forrest Gump; "That's all I've got to say about that."
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Old 09-17-2006   #26
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
If you can conjure the voice of Vincent Price to recite this in your head it will make sense, and, if not, at least be more entertaining.
I think it would be better coming from Christopher Lee, but that's just me.
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Old 09-17-2006   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I'm ticked, because we have been lied to again. Here me out before you start foaming at the mouth.

When Kubiak came here he said he would do what the players do best and are best at and capable of. Lefts talk about Indy for a moment. They have absolutely zero running game. What do they do? They use their strength the passing game to get the job done. The run is a side light to the rest of the game just like the 49ers of the past.

Folks we are in the same position. We have excellent wide receivers and TE's and what do we do? Of course you have to run the ball to Pass. That is absolute BS. Kubiak has the same 1 dimensional approach. If you can't run then its time to try the other avenue particularly when your strengths are your receivers. We should be stepping back and passing on every down instead of running twice and then getting into an obvious passing situation. Sorry, but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing and its time that all of these coaches wake up.

Defensively we have no clue. We are being eaten alive by a very good QB. However, we have seen the same think in two games and they have stated they are not going to try to put pressure on the QB. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I'm extemely disappointed in what I'm seeing.

You are going nowhere with the current play calling. They are going to call all of the plays and get results like this. Why not let Carr call his own plays it can't be any worse than what we are seeing. Let AJ and Moulds come back in the huddle and tell Carr what they think is open. The two times in the past we did that we were successful. I have never liked coaches calling the plays. I have always wanted the QB's calling the plays and the coaches telling them what they are seeing when there are problems. There are simply two different perspectives of the game. What the QB may be seeing at ground level is very different from an overhead view. However, if the QB can
t see it because of what the defense is doing, then you need to do what they can see.
Dealing with the Bolded here...
When/where do you THINK you heard that garbage...they're NOT trying to get pressure...suuuure.

Coaches call the plays for 32/32 teams - Yep, they even call them for Peyton, though he gets the option of switching the play at the LOS.
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Old 09-17-2006   #28
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If we were loosing doing what our players did best, then I would say hey I guess we just don't have the talent. But I don't believe this is a talentless ball club when you have two all pro receivers you can line up at either end an a QB who can throw the ball. May be he is not perfect every time, but he can throw it. We have some good TE's this year and another 1 or 2 better than average WR's to go long with AJ and Moulds.

But we have to RUN RUN RUN RUN the ball and we really don't have good running backs. Now, Gado may prove to be good, but he's going to be much better if they aren't looking for him. Again, that happened in the 4th qtr, because we started passing and said the "H" with it. We looked a lot better. No, it was not just garbage time, we finally went to our strength. You are not going to stop AJ, Moulds and company on every play. They are also going to get yards after the catch and may break one.

What I'm really hoping is that Kubiak understands based on the 4th qtr what he is doing wrong and allows this ball club to compeat. This is a good offensive ball club if they will take the leashes off.
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Old 09-17-2006   #29
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No matter how you look at it,this team is in better shape then before Kubs got here...Our QB is actually running the offense and limiting mistakes...Our line is on its way and we have cap room coming,.

If Capers was here we would still be in a cap he77 mojo,and losing..Bottom line
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Old 09-17-2006   #30
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
All in garbage time. Carr choked when it was actually a game.
he was getting choked by their defensive lineman. there is a difference.
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Old 09-17-2006   #31
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Default ...longer process than first thought

IMO, part of the problem is that Kubiak 'talked' the 'talked' but has not 'walked' the 'talk.' From the 'get go,' Gary told us what we wanted to hear (sound familiar). For one, he said it was his job to put players in positions to use their strengths and excel. Too, he said he was going to do whatever it took to win 'one game at a time.' He said Carr would be protected and we would have to find ways to pressure the QBs in the league, especially in our own conference. He said more but let's start with this....

Caper's 'coaching not to lose' philosophy 'doomed' the Texans from day one, but Capers was good at telling us what we wanted to hear ("got to score and often, need TDs instead of field goals, on the verge, got the quality players we need, etc.) so we assumed everything was 'good to go' for the 5 yr plan--notttttttttt.

I think too many of us thought it was going to just be a simple matter of a 'tweak' here or there and winning was just around the corner, integrating the 'good' from the previous 4 yrs with Kubiak's system. We are wrong. For starters, Kubiak's system depends upon certain types of players and we don't have very many of them already on the team and-unfortunately-it could take a while to get all the necessary players.

Coach to a 'players' strength? I think we assumed that Kubiak was going to be flexible incorporating his system with the players already here and maybe a few of the things that were already in place. Not so. And, as we've found out, players already here were given a very 'short' leash to show they could effectively execute the 'new' systems.

I think we also assumed that Kubiak was going to be much more flexible than Capers and would change things when they were not working--ala the 'doing whatever' it took to win promise--but this has not been the case. Kubiak wants to run no matter whether it works or not and has shown he will play'musical chairs' with RBs until he gets what he wants.

I could go on and on but my point is that I realize now that I had wrong perceptions of what were going to happen with the team under Kubiak. I was guilty of believing we had more in place as a team that Gary could use to build the team around his way. I know now it is going to be a much longer process than I first thought, as we are indeed starting over from scratch. Several months back we had a thread on the board about whether the team was in a 'rebuilding' mode or a 'tweaking' mode, and I think we know now that 'tweak' is not the 'operative' word.

What to do? From a fan point, it's a matter of supporting the team while realizing that this is not going to be a short term fix or 'fading into the sun set.' The Broncos were not built over night but they had a 'major' advantage the Texans do not have (as I understand it)--this offense was desgned for the types of players they already had in place...something the Texans do not have yet.

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Old 09-18-2006   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATHANHALE
IMO, part of the problem is that Kubiak 'talked' the 'talked' but has not 'walked' the 'talk.' From the 'get go,' Gary told us what we wanted to hear (sound familiar). For one, he said it was his job to put players in positions to use their strengths and excel. Too, he said he was going to do whatever it took to win 'one game at a time.' He said Carr would be protected and we would have to find ways to pressure the QBs in the league, especially in our own conference. He said more but let's start with this....

Caper's 'coaching not to lose' philosophy 'doomed' the Texans from day one, but Capers was good at telling us what we wanted to hear ("got to score and often, need TDs instead of field goals, on the verge, got the quality players we need, etc.) so we assumed everything was 'good to go' for the 5 yr plan--notttttttttt.

I think too many of us thought it was going to just be a simple matter of a 'tweak' here or there and winning was just around the corner, integrating the 'good' from the previous 4 yrs with Kubiak's system. We are wrong. For starters, Kubiak's system depends upon certain types of players and we don't have very many of them already on the team and-unfortunately-it could take a while to get all the necessaey players.

Coach to a 'players' strength? I think we assumed that Kubiak was going to be flexible incorporating his system with the players already here and maybe a few of the things that were already in place. Not so. And, as we've found out, players already here were given a very 'short' leash to show they could effectively execute the 'new' systems.

I think we also assumed that Kubiak was going to be much more flexible than Capers and would change things when they were not working--ala the 'doing whatever' it took to win promise--but this has not been the case. Kubiak wants to run no matter whether it works or not and has shown he will play'musical chairs' with RBs until he gets what he wants.

I could go on and on but my point is that I realize now that I had wrong perceptions of what were going to happen with the team under Kubiak. I was guilty of believing we had more in place as a team that Gary could use to build the team around his way. I know now it is going to be a much longer process than I first thought, as we are indeed starting over from scratch. Several months back we had a thread on the board about whether the team was in a 'rebuilding' mode or a 'tweaking' mode, and I think we know now that 'tweak' is not the 'operative' word.

What to do? From a fan point, it's a matter of supporting the team while realizing that this is not going to be a short term fix or 'fading into the sun set.' The Broncos were not built over night but they had a 'major' advantage the Texans do not have (as I understand it)--this offense was desgned for the types of players they already had in place...something the Texans do not have yet.
You have stated it far better than I ever could and it really is a summation of what the title of this thread is. I was hoping I was wrong, but I'm not. I could say some other things that have also become obvious, but many wouldn't believe it anyway. The above though is the situation and it looks like the wool was pulled over everyones' eyes. I was hoping this was not the case. I had hopes that may be he realized what was wrong with the way the 4th qtr went. However, based on other new casts, its obvious he has no understanding of what the problem really is..................
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Old 09-18-2006   #33
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I dont know if y'all realize this, but we went 2-14 last year. We just played two teams that are Superbowl caliber teams. Not just this season, but they have been that way for the past couple of seasons.

How do you expect in one offseason everything to be fixed?

It takes time. Have patience.

Kubiak has been in the passenger seat a long time, and this is his first time actually getting to drive the ca... beast. (Pun avoided.)
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Old 09-18-2006   #34
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Originally Posted by TexansBull
I dont know if y'all realize this, but we went 2-14 last year. We just played two teams that are Superbowl caliber teams. Not just this season, but they have been that way for the past couple of seasons.

How do you expect in one offseason everything to be fixed?

It takes time. Have patience.

Kubiak has been in the passenger seat a long time, and this is his first time actually getting to drive the ca... beast. (Pun avoided.)
You are right, patience should be expected.

However, this is the second week in a row this team has had their jocks handed to them.

I think the next two home games will show a lot about this squad and what to expect the rest of the season.
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Old 09-18-2006   #35
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You are right, patience should be expected.

However, this is the second week in a row this team has had their jocks handed to them.

I think the next two home games will show a lot about this squad and what to expect the rest of the season.
Thats right. This team cant carry the jock of the other two teams we played, and those teams proved it. I was just as dissapointed as everyone else. I thought we would put up more of a fight and a showing. I had a case of ism.

I agree with you about the next two games. Washups is the better of the two, Miami proving that today against Buffalo. Both teams are overrated, but have similar problems like us.

This team should put up a better fight in those games, and start putting the pieces together...hopefully. I really dont wont to say win, but I hope we put up a better showing against teams that have a slim chance at playoffs than Indy and Philly, which could go all the way. I hope we can pull an upset though.
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Old 09-18-2006   #36
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By the way I want you to understand that I am MAD because these gentlemen have worked their butts off trying to get ready for the season. For their effort to manifest itself on the field as we have seen has to be very disheartning to the players as a whole. It would appear the players are being placed in absolute failure mode once again without a chance of success. That is simply intolerable to me. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. If I keep discussing this I think I'm literally going to have a heart attack. I'm signing off as I have spoken my mind. Hopefully we make a lot better showing next week. I hope for the players sake they do. Its not fun losing all the time.
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Old 09-18-2006   #37
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Gary has also inhereted all of Dom's and Charlie's trash.......he has a lot to fix, with not enough time.........but he will make us a winner !
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Old 09-18-2006   #38
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Hervoyel I wish that just once on this board instead of knee-jerk reactions and short sighted posts we could have a legitimate discussion about gameplan, system, and personel. Nevermind, it will never happen so I will just stay out of this and continue throwing my two cents in....... Hell this type of posts is the main reason why certain people close to me no longer really post any meat to the board it is just sad....
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Old 09-18-2006   #39
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Originally Posted by jerek
I'm going to stay out of the Carr bickering, etc. but for the record, Kubiak is very different from Capers. We have a lot to work on, but they're not in the same universe as coaches. Offensive playcalling, while not as successful as we would like to see so far, is night and day different.

Defensively I agree that we are seeing too much Fangio and not enough adjustments right now, but comparing Kubiak to Capers is totally inaccurate and knee-jerk at this point.
Tell them the truth Jerek....we're hurt. You guys wanna bash Carr fine by me. I'm letting that go from now on. We can't run a man because our DBs suck. We've got one true blue chip DB. The rest are on the team because what's on the waiver wire is worse than what we got. The reason I know this is that two top five NFL QB's just ripped their two deep zone a new orifice. The guys back there didn't have a clue. And they're not likley to get one anytime soon. And...it ain't going to get any better untill the next off season.

We just lost our best OLT prospect to a knee cap injury when our new running back stud shattered it. Which means....we're reshuffeling the o-line, the fifth time in five seasons...(see a pattern developing here ?)...the same guys we had last year, same guys who deleverd us into the bottom of the NFL offensive food chain. So befor you have a coranary, better strap on the seat belt and get ready. We're in for a rough ride in '06. Can't run the ball, can't protect Satin, can't stop the run or get pressure on the correct QB. And it's all that Danged Carrs fault. He's satin, lol. Yeah, right.

Just for the record, at this point, I'm so frustrated , if I was Carr's agent I'd tell DC to buy out his contract and move on. He's too good for this franchise. This franchise sucks and is going to suck for the near future. Carr is waisting his time here.

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Old 09-18-2006   #40
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Wow, only took two games for the "sky is falling" "Kubiak sucks" threads. I have said it once and I will say it again, miracles do not happen overnight, especially for a first time head coach who took over one of the worst teams in the NFL.
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