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Old 09-16-2006   #1
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Default Colts defend Texans' choice of Mario

"I'm a defensive guy and the cornerstone to most championship teams is defense, if it's not a quarterback," he said. "To me it's a good pick if you're not passing on a John Elway or a Dan Marino. Guys like Lawrence Taylor and Bruce Smith, they become the cornerstones of great teams. (The Texans) think this is a cornerstone guy. I can absolutely see why they did it."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4191009.html
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Though I hardly think they would criticize the pick in the week of their game
against the Texans & Mario. It would really be interesting to know what they
think privately, off the record ?
But I'm now of the opinion that you always want to make every effort to trade the #1 overall for multiple picks, unless there is a QB of the Elway or
Marino stature in the Draft.
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Old 09-16-2006   #2
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If anyone knows the value of a DE, its Indy. If it weren't for Dwight Freeney, there is no way they go 13-0 last year.
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Old 09-16-2006   #3
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Freeney (#11) & Marino (#27) were not consenus #1 overall picks. While Reggie Bush was with Mario Williams a distant 2nd
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Old 09-16-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
Freeney (#11) & Marino (#27) were not consenus #1 overall picks. While Reggie Bush was with Mario Williams a distant 2nd
We've learned that Bush was NOT in fact, a consensus #1 pick. There's a reason the Saints could not get a trade and the Jets shyed away from a trade.
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Old 09-16-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan
We've learned that Bush was NOT in fact, a consensus #1 pick. There's a reason the Saints could not get a trade and the Jets shyed away from a trade.
here we go again
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Old 09-16-2006   #6
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Not knocking Mario (he was even a bit surprised the Texans were serious about signing him leading up to the draft) but the Texans made things real hard on themselves for not taking the consensus BPA. compounded by the fact the Texans are real thin @ RB & KR with both DD & JM out with injurys.

As for the Colts they took the consensus #1 pick in 98 by the name of Payton Manning, then the following year Edgerrin James (#4th pick).
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Old 09-16-2006   #7
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Would you rather be lose games doing what you honestly believed was the right thing or lose because others pressured you into getting someone you really didn't want.


"They want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries." -Bill Parcells
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Old 09-16-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
here we go again
You started it
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Old 09-16-2006   #9
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I don't know why we are comparing these 2 guys after just one game, im sure when Mario gets his first sack, or fumble recovery, or Interception, everyone will start talking about how its obvious that he was the #1 pick.....just let it go...
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Old 09-16-2006   #10
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What you expect Tony Dungee to say?

"I think the Texans screwed up by taking Mario Williams with first overall pick. They should have taken either Bush or Vince Young." ????????

And say that right before you go up against him the next game, just to give the guy a little extra incentive to do well????????

C'mon guys!
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Old 09-16-2006   #11
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consensus: An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole

Who was the #1 Pick? Then Bush was not the consensus #1 pick.
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Old 09-16-2006   #12
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IMO, the Texans selecting Reggie Bush in the Draft and getting the highest
value for their #1 overall pick were mutually exclusive considerations.
Therefor, they did the right thing by passing on Bush but made less than the
best choice among other options, which would have included a trade for multiple picks. Say we got Laurence Maroney (probably the best back in the
Draft for the Texans - unlike Bush he can run off tackle "and" inside the tackles), and one of the top CBs who might be starting for us right now.
We will probably never know why they didn't trade the pick, but the Texans blew that opportunity by not having a solid backup plan ready to execute in
the event that they cooled on Bush, for whatever reason.
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Old 09-16-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
Not knocking Mario (he was even a bit surprised the Texans were serious about signing him leading up to the draft) but the Texans made things real hard on themselves for not taking the consensus BPA. compounded by the fact the Texans are real thin @ RB & KR with both DD & JM out with injurys.

As for the Colts they took the consensus #1 pick in 98 by the name of Payton Manning, then the following year Edgerrin James (#4th pick).

when was the last time Denver took a running back in the first round....... when??

It ain't never happened, it ain't never gonna happen.

& it won't happen in houston. Even if it takes 10 years to get the ZBS game going in Houston...... forget about 1st round runningbacks.

Look for the guys who do just as well as Reggie, but don't get the media hype.

Think about guys like ClintonPortis & Tatum Bell.....
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Old 09-16-2006   #14
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i personally think that both mario and bush were #1 picks. the thing was though, you got to figure out what your personal opinion is on winning championships; defense or offense. i think that kubiak wanted to solidify the defense, because a offense can be developed...JMO.
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Old 09-16-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
As for the Colts they took the consensus #1 pick in 98 by the name of Payton Manning, then the following year Edgerrin James (#4th pick).
I think that is a little bit if revisionist history. There was a ton of debate between Manning and Leaf at the time. There is no way Manning was the consensus #1 overall pick that year. Most of Peyton's detractors at the time pointed out his perceived inability to "win the big one" while at Tennessee.
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Old 09-16-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feebleminded
I think that is a little bit if revisionist history. There was a ton of debate between Manning and Leaf at the time. There is no way Manning was the consensus #1 overall pick that year. Most of Peyton's detractors at the time pointed out his perceived inability to "win the big one" while at Tennessee.
Also, the pick of Edge James over Ricky Williams was highly critisized by the media. The Colts got lucky on both Manning and James. How many teams would have been sitting there with Leaf and Ricky Williams?
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Old 09-16-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominickDavisFan76
I don't know why we are comparing these 2 guys after just one game, im sure when Mario gets his first sack, or fumble recovery, or Interception, everyone will start talking about how its obvious that he was the #1 pick.....just let it go...
The biggest difference between these two guys is leadership and football play. Mario is big and strong and might be a good defensive end when we get a leader for our D.( such as Sharper provided) Demeco might be that guy soon. I think what we lacked to pick-up with Bush was an Identity or leadership. The whole media and most teams focus on Bush. The game Bush got very few yards against the Cowboys, I watched them fake it to him and throw their first and maybe only first down of the first half. The entire defense was concentrating on him. Williams might be a good player, but he hasn't shown much yet. Bush won a title at SC and as I watched the Texans lose the first game the station kept breaking in with Reggie Bush update stats. And having picked him at #1 instead of Bush thier will allllllwwwwwaaaayyyyysss be comparisons.
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Old 09-16-2006   #18
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the point being the Colts took the consensus #1 pick QB Manning then next year drafted a #1 RB (although 4th pick overall). revisonist or not the Colts went from 3-13 Paytons 1st season to 13-3 James 1st season. clearly there is some blueprint there to follow along and play competitive NFL football while entertaining their paying fans to a compelling show of skill players.....
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Old 09-16-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
the point being the Colts took the consensus #1 pick QB Manning then next year drafted a #1 RB (although 4th pick overall). revisonist or not the Colts went from 3-13 Paytons 1st season to 13-3 James 1st season. clearly there is some blueprint there to follow along and play competitive NFL football while entertaining their paying fans to a compelling show of skill players.....
I think he is saying that Peyton was not the consensus #1.... that some people had Ryan Leaf rated better than Peyton. I didn't get into the draft back then, and looking at both players now, I don't see how that could be. But Tim Couch was graded higher than McNabb once upon a time.

& Edgerin was definitely not the #1 runningback..... it was Ricky Williams by a substantial Margin. I believe most were as shocked about that, as people were about us passing on Reggie.

So we drafted David Carr with the first overall in '02..... consensus #1 correct?? We also pick up a WR in the second round...... Jabar Gaffney. The next year, we pick up AJ........ definite 1st round material, and we get a gem in DD the second day...........

I don't see where we deviated from the blueprint, that turns 3-13 teams into 13-3 teams.
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Old 09-17-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
the point being the Colts took the consensus #1 pick QB Manning then next year drafted a #1 RB (although 4th pick overall). revisonist or not the Colts went from 3-13 Paytons 1st season to 13-3 James 1st season. clearly there is some blueprint there to follow along and play competitive NFL football while entertaining their paying fans to a compelling show of skill players.....
My point was that Manning was not the consensus #1 pick in that draft.

Manning is a success because of the player that he is along with the offensive system that he is playing in and the way he has been coached and developed. I dont think that the blueprint is as simple as it may appear. Successful teams clearly need to have talented players, but they also need to have strong coaching staffs with sound offensive and defensive schemes suited to the personnel.
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