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Old 09-14-2006   #321
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Well someone gave me a negative rep point for posting this earlier in this thread, so maybe if I prove it with the stats, you won't be so angry. At least leave a message or your name so at least I can know what you didn't like...

Anyway. Here is my opinion on why we traded Morency. The FO believed him to be expendable, because they believed Lundy was the better all around back. Everyone keeps clamoring that Morency had a much better preseason, and that he should have been the starter on day 1, but I just don't see it. Here's the proof:

He was more effective than Lundy:
Wali Lundy
26 carries for 143 yards (5.5 ypc), long of 25, 1 TD
6 receptions for 52 yards, long of 13

Vernand Morency
24 carries for 131 yards (5.5 ypc), long of 43, 2 TDs
6 receptions for 39 yards, long of 10

Now heres the important part (I'm only counting the games both played in)
Game 2 vs. STL:
Lundy 1st play - 1st Quarter, 15 minutes remaining
Morency 1st play - 2nd Quarter, 11:45 minutes remaining

Game 3 vs. Den:
Lundy 1st play - 1st Quarter, 9:02 remaining
Morency 1st play - 3rd Quarter, 14:39 remaining

Do you see where I'm going? Morency never got a single snap against 1st team defenses, and probably got very limited action against 2nd teamers. Most of his playing time was against defensive players that aren't even on some of these teams anymore.

He is a better blocker than Lundy
During the preseason, I would agree that Morency had 2 good blocks, and Lundy had 0. If you'll remember Kubiak's press releases though, he claimed that Morency was having a lot of trouble with blocking as well. Remember again that Morency was playing against 2nd and worse team defenses. We all saw what happened when Morency tried to make a block in a regular season game against a 1st team D. It wasn't pretty. Reminiscent of Lundy's failed attempts. Proper place and effort, but wasn't capable of taking on such a big defender.

So here's the deal. Morency wasn't better than Lundy in the preseason. In fact, if you substract that 1 long run each had, Morency's yards per carry 3.8. You can't count on those long ones every time. Without that 43 yarder, Morency was 23 carries for 88 yards! That isn't great. Without Lundy's long one, he was 25 for 112 (4.7ypc). And against 1st team Ds.

Clearly, the coaches realized Morency wasn't productive and consistent enough. Thats why he didn't start. As such, he was expendable. And they didn't pass up the opportunity to get a guy who can carry the load himself, and was the sole offensive force on a horrible GB team for the last half of the season.
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Old 09-14-2006   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
Well someone gave me a negative rep point for posting this earlier in this thread, so maybe if I prove it with the stats, you won't be so angry. At least leave a message or your name so at least I can know what you didn't like...

Anyway. Here is my opinion on why we traded Morency. The FO believed him to be expendable, because they believed Lundy was the better all around back. Everyone keeps clamoring that Morency had a much better preseason, and that he should have been the starter on day 1, but I just don't see it. Here's the proof:

He was more effective than Lundy:
Wali Lundy
26 carries for 143 yards (5.5 ypc), long of 25, 1 TD
6 receptions for 52 yards, long of 13

Vernand Morency
24 carries for 131 yards (5.5 ypc), long of 43, 2 TDs
6 receptions for 39 yards, long of 10

Now heres the important part (I'm only counting the games both played in)
Game 2 vs. STL:
Lundy 1st play - 1st Quarter, 15 minutes remaining
Morency 1st play - 2nd Quarter, 11:45 minutes remaining

Game 3 vs. Den:
Lundy 1st play - 1st Quarter, 9:02 remaining
Morency 1st play - 3rd Quarter, 14:39 remaining

Do you see where I'm going? Morency never got a single snap against 1st team defenses, and probably got very limited action against 2nd teamers. Most of his playing time was against defensive players that aren't even on some of these teams anymore.

He is a better blocker than Lundy
During the preseason, I would agree that Morency had 2 good blocks, and Lundy had 0. If you'll remember Kubiak's press releases though, he claimed that Morency was having a lot of trouble with blocking as well. Remember again that Morency was playing against 2nd and worse team defenses. We all saw what happened when Morency tried to make a block in a regular season game against a 1st team D. It wasn't pretty. Reminiscent of Lundy's failed attempts. Proper place and effort, but wasn't capable of taking on such a big defender.

So here's the deal. Morency wasn't better than Lundy in the preseason. In fact, if you substract that 1 long run each had, Morency's yards per carry 3.8. You can't count on those long ones every time. Without that 43 yarder, Morency was 23 carries for 88 yards! That isn't great. Without Lundy's long one, he was 25 for 112 (4.7ypc). And against 1st team Ds.

Clearly, the coaches realized Morency wasn't productive and consistent enough. Thats why he didn't start. As such, he was expendable. And they didn't pass up the opportunity to get a guy who can carry the load himself, and was the sole offensive force on a horrible GB team for the last half of the season.
One of the many things I have learned from Vinny is that you cannot judge players based on stats in football. And subtracting Morency's longest run of the preseason to drop his YPC is ridiculous.
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Old 09-14-2006   #323
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Originally Posted by texan279
One of the many things I have learned from Vinny is that you cannot judge players based on stats in football. And subtracting Morency's longest run of the preseason to drop his YPC is ridiculous.
It's not really ridiculous...If he had constantly broke long runs then it would be ridiculous to subtract his longest...But he had one long run, and IMO that was all O-line...He was untouched all the way to the endzone...I think the point he was trying to make is that he wasn't consistent...He had one long run in 24 carries .....Even if we assume that he can break one 40 yarder every 25 attempts, that still wouldn't be good enough...And the likely hood of him breaking a 40 yarder every 25 attempts is reaching...
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Old 09-14-2006   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
Well someone gave me a negative rep point for posting this earlier in this thread, so maybe if I prove it with the stats, you won't be so angry. At least leave a message or your name so at least I can know what you didn't like...

Anyway. Here is my opinion on why we traded Morency. The FO believed him to be expendable, because they believed Lundy was the better all around back. Everyone keeps clamoring that Morency had a much better preseason, and that he should have been the starter on day 1, but I just don't see it. Here's the proof:

He was more effective than Lundy:
Wali Lundy
26 carries for 143 yards (5.5 ypc), long of 25, 1 TD
6 receptions for 52 yards, long of 13

Vernand Morency
24 carries for 131 yards (5.5 ypc), long of 43, 2 TDs
6 receptions for 39 yards, long of 10

Now heres the important part (I'm only counting the games both played in)
Game 2 vs. STL:
Lundy 1st play - 1st Quarter, 15 minutes remaining
Morency 1st play - 2nd Quarter, 11:45 minutes remaining

Game 3 vs. Den:
Lundy 1st play - 1st Quarter, 9:02 remaining
Morency 1st play - 3rd Quarter, 14:39 remaining

Do you see where I'm going? Morency never got a single snap against 1st team defenses, and probably got very limited action against 2nd teamers. Most of his playing time was against defensive players that aren't even on some of these teams anymore.

He is a better blocker than Lundy
During the preseason, I would agree that Morency had 2 good blocks, and Lundy had 0. If you'll remember Kubiak's press releases though, he claimed that Morency was having a lot of trouble with blocking as well. Remember again that Morency was playing against 2nd and worse team defenses. We all saw what happened when Morency tried to make a block in a regular season game against a 1st team D. It wasn't pretty. Reminiscent of Lundy's failed attempts. Proper place and effort, but wasn't capable of taking on such a big defender.

So here's the deal. Morency wasn't better than Lundy in the preseason. In fact, if you substract that 1 long run each had, Morency's yards per carry 3.8. You can't count on those long ones every time. Without that 43 yarder, Morency was 23 carries for 88 yards! That isn't great. Without Lundy's long one, he was 25 for 112 (4.7ypc). And against 1st team Ds.

Clearly, the coaches realized Morency wasn't productive and consistent enough. Thats why he didn't start. As such, he was expendable. And they didn't pass up the opportunity to get a guy who can carry the load himself, and was the sole offensive force on a horrible GB team for the last half of the season.

Gtex, I like where you're going with this and it makes sense. I know you have to add in the long runs, because it is part of the game, but I do see the difference as well when you take them away. I only found out about this trade on my way to work this morning on the radio. I was in shock, but I do remember Gado from last year's games that I got to watch and he was impressive. I think he will be able to contribute and I put my faith in this coaching staff more so than I ever did in Capers' crew. These guys are trying to build a winning unit out of a bunch of losers, seriously, that's what we were last year. I know it's hard to say that. I watched and rooted each game, and each game I felt my heart sink a little deeper and deeper. I think this is one more move in the right direction for a bigger goal than winning in week two.
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Old 09-14-2006   #325
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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx
It's not really ridiculous...If he had constantly broke long runs then it would be ridiculous to subtract his longest...But he had one long run, and IMO that was all O-line...He was untouched all the way to the endzone...I think the point he was trying to make is that he wasn't consistent...He had one long run in 24 carries .....Even if we assume that he can break one 40 yarder every 25 attempts, that still wouldn't be good enough...And the likely hood of him breaking a 40 yarder every 25 attempts is reaching...
I don't even know why I am responding, but if you take that 43 yard runaway from Morency in the St. Louis game, he would still have had 10 carries for 52 yards, or 5.2 YPC. In the same game take away Lundy's longest run of 21 yards and he would have had 6 carries for 19 yards, or 3.1 YPC. You can't take away a back's longest rush for the sake of stats no matter what the reason is for him breaking the long run. We could sit here and assume and play with stats all day if we wanted to make one back look better than the other on paper, all I know is IMO Morency was the better back in the preseason and he was given all of 5 carries in our first game before being traded.
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Last edited by texan279; 09-14-2006 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 09-14-2006   #326
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Gadomighty! I just worked a trade to get Lundy in my fantasy league and now this? I had the starting RB job handcuffed as I also had Morency. Gado is already on a roster. being a huge Texan fan I think this is an excellent move. Texans running game was anemic last week so a change can't make it any worse.
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Old 09-14-2006   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx
It's not really ridiculous...If he had constantly broke long runs then it would be ridiculous to subtract his longest...But he had one long run, and IMO that was all O-line...He was untouched all the way to the endzone...I think the point he was trying to make is that he wasn't consistent...He had one long run in 24 carries .....Even if we assume that he can break one 40 yarder every 25 attempts, that still wouldn't be good enough...And the likely hood of him breaking a 40 yarder every 25 attempts is reaching...
Oh, and if you guys are so big on stats, in the preseason Gado had 27 carries for 65 yards for a YPC of 2.4, and that was against 2nd and 3rd team defenses. In the Packers first game this season he had 2 carries for -7 yards.
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Old 09-14-2006   #328
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texan279 - I wasn't saying that you had to take away that long run, i was just trying to make a point regarding consistency.

Can you argue that Morency was up against 2nd and 3rd teamers the entire time?
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Old 09-14-2006   #329
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Originally Posted by texan279
Oh, and if you guys are so big on stats, in the preseason Gado had 27 carries for 65 yards for a YPC of 2.4, and that was against 2nd and 3rd team defenses. In the Packers first game this season he had 2 carries for -7 yards.
First of all I am not a stat guy...I could care less about stats...I was just trying to explain to you what that guy was trying to convey...And I think he made his point pretty clear...over the course of the pre-season Lundy was our most consistent back...period....Breaking one long run in 25 carries is hardly consistent any way you spin it.....If you take away both players longest run...Lundy is the more consistent back...If you leave both players longest run in, the only thing Morency leads him in is touchdowns...Morency looked good to me also, but he was going against second and third teamers...Lundy was solid going against first teamers...Neither one of them had clearly seperated themselves from the other so it doesn't matter any way...Morency was 26...not old, but but older than the back we brought in and older than Lundy...We win either way...cheaper..younger...not much drop off in talent if any at all....
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Old 09-14-2006   #330
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Originally Posted by texan279
Oh, and if you guys are so big on stats, in the preseason Gado had 27 carries for 65 yards for a YPC of 2.4, and that was against 2nd and 3rd team defenses. In the Packers first game this season he had 2 carries for -7 yards.
I'm not trying to justify the Gado trade, I'm just trying to paint my picture of why I believe the FO thought Morency was expendable. And the fact was that Lundy outperformed him
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Old 09-14-2006   #331
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If Morency was so great, he would have at least beat out a 6th round pick. Let's be serious, do some people think they know more than Kubiak? It's one thing if its a defensive player where he might not be an expert on but come on. I can sleep at night knowing that Kubiak knows his QB's and RB's.
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Old 09-14-2006   #332
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Green Bay think Green's back to something like his best, so they wanted a shifty 3rd down back with good receiving skills out of the backfield more than a downhill bruiser. We were looking for someone to share the load in a more general sense as part of a committee, so we were more interested in just having the better pure rusher. Both teams are probably getting what they think they're getting, which probably means this is a win for both teams. Just not a very big one.
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Old 09-14-2006   #333
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Originally Posted by dtran04
If Morency was so great, he would have at least beat out a 6th round pick. Let's be serious, do some people think they know more than Kubiak? It's one thing if its a defensive player where he might not be an expert on but come on. I can sleep at night knowing that Kubiak knows his QB's and RB's.
Like others have said already, draft position means nothing. I never said I knew more than Kubiak, all I have said is that I do not think Morency was given a fair shot at earning a spot on the team.
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Old 09-14-2006   #334
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I find it odd that the Packers said that Gabo could not pick up the Zone Blocking scheme, isn't that what we are running too? I have said since we got Kubiak that this is a fresh start and that we could actually be 8-8 this season, but I agree with everyone else here, Gary is grasping at straws to deflect the Accountabilty he stands so strongly behind.
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I hear ya. That is what stunned me. Especially after picking up Dayne. Desperation is a stinky cologne.
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Old 09-14-2006   #335
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Finally a move that I like...

Samkon Gado can be the starter by the 6th week...

I think this is a great move by the Texans, he could have a huge impact to this team and even though I think Morency was a better back than Lundy, Gado has the ability to be far superior than either of them...

He will either be a homerun or a strikeout, I strongly lean towards a homerun. Only time will tell...
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Old 09-14-2006   #336
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I don't mean to sound elementary or anything but man I put that kid on my Madden with Dayne and all I can say is that if this can work anything like it did in Madden scheme wise, we might have a good thing going.

Try pounding it with this kid and letting Dayne come in and do even more pounding.

I know it is only Madden so don't go all nuts on me.

Who do you think he RESEMBLES running the ball? I think Bettis.
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Old 09-14-2006   #337
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i miss DD
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Old 09-14-2006   #338
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i miss DD
Why? Do you really think he could've done any better against Philly? IMO, I don't think so. I like what we've got. So cheer up little fella
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Old 09-14-2006   #339
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People need to stop freaking out about this deal. By next season, BOTH of these guys will be on their respective teams, but NEITHER will be a starter. Gado provides us with an everydown back who is capable of starting THIS season and maybe be a #2 in the following seasons. Morency gives GB a change of pace type back. IMO I like what I saw from Morency in the preseason, but let's face it, he is not an EVERY down type of back. This deal looks to be a wash for both teams.

What I DO like, is that Kubiak is constantly looking to do things that he thinks will improve the team. This is in direct opposition to Caper's style which was to stick with something/someone even when it was not working
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Old 09-14-2006   #340
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Just to ask, We don't know who is going to start, Gabo or Lundy.
When did we sign him?




At least he'll add some comedy.
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