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Old 09-11-2006   #1
Divebomb
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Default Opinions on the Denver “System” Running Back Phenomenon

This is my argument towards the claim that any running back can step in and rush for 1,000+ with this system. If you think we have a for sure 1,000 yrd back with Lundy I think you should reconsider the truth about the Denver system.

Let’s start with Terrell Davis 6th round pick . Terrell Davis went to the University of Georgia. He backed up Garrison Hearst and played a role like Priest Holmes with Ricky Williams. He landed on a team with tremendous talent and made an immediate impact. He is the reason most people believe anyone can have 1,000 yrds with this offensive scheme. He broke a lot of big runs and had great speed. Elway made his running ability even more dangerous. NOTE: TD Had ZERO 1000 yards seasons after Elway left!

Clinton Portis was taken in the 2nd Round from “The U”. At (5’11 205) Portis is one of the fastest RB’s in the game and has shown how productive this Denver "System" can be with a top draft pick as a RB. His two years as a Bronco 1508yrds with 15td’s and 1591yrds with 14 td’s. The most productive Running Back in the post Elway era. Traded to Washington in 2004. Had 1315yrds 5td’s in 2004 and 1516yrds 11td’s in 2005 for the Skins. Proof that he is a good back not a systems guy.

Tatum Bell 2nd Round Oklahoma State. He had 921yrds 8td’s in is second year. Like Portis, Bell is super fast and can take it the distance. He will beat out Mike Bell and have a 1,000+ yard season in my prediction. He is a good RB and not a systems guy.

Ruben Droughns (5-11 215) 3rd Round out of Oregon. Droughns was taken by Detroit in 2001. he was traded the next year and he sat the bench in Denver for two seasons learning before he finnaly got to start. He had 1240 with 6 td’s in (correction 2004 not 1994). He played for Clevland during (2005 not 1995) and had 1232 with 2 td’s. Proof that he is a good back not the system.

Orlandis Gary (5’11 218) 4th Round out of Georgia. He was the only one year wonder and the only guy that can be used to argue the "System" ideology.

Mike Anderson (6’0 230) 6th round out of Utah. Power and speed combo. Has had 2 1000+ seasons. One during his first season at 1487 with 15 td’s the year was 2000. He then had a rebirth with 1014yrds with 12 td’s in 2005. I would say it is not normal to overlook a guy from Utah in a draft class with Shaun Alexander, Ruben Droughns, Jemal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Ron Dayne, Trung Canidate. Robaire Smith, Tom Brady, and David Nugent were all taken after Anderson. Mark Bulger was also taken in the 6th round of this draft. Anderson is a good back not a systems product. He went to a small school and he was being drafted in the time fram when people were not finding so many GEM's from the small schools. I think he was a diamond in the rough not a product of a system.

My main argument is that if people around here think that Lundy is going to be this 1,000+ yard producer because of the Denver System I hope you know that it was not a Denver System that put up the numbers, it was legit Backs and great O-Linemen. The best of that group were two 2nd round picks and one 6th that played with John Elway at the command not David Carr. To believe you can plug anyone into this scheme and produce a 1000+ rusher is just stupid!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Divebomb; 09-11-2006 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006   #2
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A good offensive line is the key to any good running game, irregardless of the specific "scheme" they run.

More important than the talent of the individual running back is the collective talent of the line. It is obvious that coaching is not our problem with the first game and it's lack of run production. It appears to be a problem that is much deeper than that right now.

Good post, though, and nice homework.
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Old 09-11-2006   #3
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I would like to see our 3rd round pick from Oklahoma State be given a chance to be the every down back. I am presupposing we are only talking about running the ball and not the other things that go into a making a strong RB like blocking and catching.
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Old 09-11-2006   #4
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so your argument is that they keep drafting these gems out of nowhere that all the other 31 teams overlook. and it has more to do with these great backs coming out of nowhere than it does the system and offensive line.

i dont buy it. the offensive line and scheme is what makes a ave back good, or a good back great. barry sanders is the only guy i have ever seen that didnt need a line.

remember gary brown. that cat had 1000 yards in 8 games after our number 1(rozier or white) went down. you think he was a stud.

watch the game tape or backs had nowhere to run.
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Old 09-11-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbeth
so your argument is that they keep drafting these gems out of nowhere that all the other 31 teams overlook. and it has more to do with these great backs coming out of nowhere than it does the system and offensive line.

i dont buy it. the offensive line and scheme is what makes a ave back good, or a good back great. barry sanders is the only guy i have ever seen that didnt need a line.

remember gary brown. that cat had 1000 yards in 8 games after our number 1(rozier or white) went down. you think he was a stud.

watch the game tape or backs had nowhere to run.
I think this Eagles team has a shot at winning the NFC, and possibly the whole enchilada. If they can fire on all cylinders (offense AND defense) like they did against us, then they are very dangerous.

We had absolutely no chance. In fact, it was a gift from the football gods that we even had such a great opening drive and at leats scored a TD. I think that Eagles team we played is just as good as the Colts. Great blocking. Great blitzes timed at the right moments. Phenomenal playcalling and great multi-purpose RB in Westbrook.

I think we get into a groove after the Colts game.
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Old 09-11-2006   #6
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Have the Denver backs been at least decent to very good?--yes. Now try looking at the performance of Portis and Droughns in Denver vs. with their new teams--there is only one conclusion--the scheme/OL/whatever combo played a significant role. Yes the scheme gets overstated but trying to disregard it is just stupid!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-11-2006   #7
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If the player was more important than the system, then Clinton Portis wouldn't have been traded. There's a reason why Denver RB's are different every year. In their eyes, the system is much more important than the player.
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Old 09-11-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Have the Denver backs been at least decent to very good?--yes. Now try looking at the performance of Portis and Droughns in Denver vs. with their new teams--there is only one conclusion--the scheme/OL/whatever combo played a significant role. Yes the scheme gets overstated but trying to disregard it is just stupid!!!!!!!!
I don't think he's trying to disregard it, but it does sound logical. Better backs make the system more productive. Lundy had an injury he dealt with last season which dropped his stock so hopefully he'll prove he can be a productive back, but to say you can squeeze a 1000 yds. with any back is also stretching it.
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Old 09-11-2006   #9
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Let's not forget who lined up on the either side of the ball yesterday.
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Old 09-11-2006   #10
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To put the system over the player has given the Broncos some horrid running games in the playoffs recently especially after Terrell Davis went down. All this stuff about the system leading to success just makes me think about Jerry Krause saying organizations are responsible for team success after Michael Jordan had his numerous championships. Systems can be gameplanned against. Look at what the Steeler did to the Broncos in the playoffs last season. I just remember Jake Plummer getting panicky, but I'm pretty sure there was an ineffective running game being part of the problem. Players supercede systems. Patriots don't win squat without Tom Brady. Some athletes have it. Some don't.

I know some folks are going to point out the Steelers' defense doing the stopping of the Broncos. Yeah. It helps to have one of the best defensive players in the NFL with Troy Polamalu.

Zone blocking system my butt. How come the zone blocking system only wins Superbowls when Elway and Terrell Davis are playing?
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Old 09-11-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divebomb
Let’s start with Terrell Davis 6th round pick ..... NOTE: TD Had ZERO 1000 yards seasons after Elway left!
Also note that Davis had the same number of functional knees (0) as he had 1000 seasons after Elway left (0).
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Old 09-11-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Let's not forget who lined up on the either side of the ball yesterday.

I understand your meaning, but I'm actually trying to forget..
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Old 09-11-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divebomb
This is my argument towards the claim that any running back can step in and rush for 1,000+ with this system. If you think we have a for sure 1,000 yrd back with Lundy I think you should reconsider the truth about the Denver system.

Let’s start with Terrell Davis 6th round pick . Terrell Davis went to the University of Georgia. He backed up Garrison Hearst and played a role like Priest Holmes with Ricky Williams. He landed on a team with tremendous talent and made an immediate impact. He is the reason most people believe anyone can have 1,000 yrds with this offensive scheme. He broke a lot of big runs and had great speed. Elway made his running ability even more dangerous. NOTE: TD Had ZERO 1000 yards seasons after Elway left!

Clinton Portis was taken in the 2nd Round from “The U”. At (5’11 205) Portis is one of the fastest RB’s in the game and has shown how productive this Denver "System" can be with a top draft pick as a RB. His two years as a Bronco 1508yrds with 15td’s and 1591yrds with 14 td’s. The most productive Running Back in the post Elway era. Traded to Washington in 2004. Had 1315yrds 5td’s in 2004 and 1516yrds 11td’s in 2005 for the Skins. Proof that he is a good back not a systems guy.

Tatum Bell 2nd Round Oklahoma State. He had 921yrds 8td’s in is second year. Like Portis, Bell is super fast and can take it the distance. He will beat out Mike Bell and have a 1,000+ yard season in my prediction. He is a good RB and not a systems guy.

Ruben Droughns (5-11 215) 3rd Round out of Oregon. Droughns was taken by Detroit in 2001. he was traded the next year and he sat the bench in Denver for two seasons learning before he finnaly got to start. He had 1240 with 6 td’s in 1994. He played for Clevland during 1995 and had 1232 with 2 td’s. Proof that he is a good back not the system.

Orlandis Gary (5’11 218) 4th Round out of Georgia. He was the only one year wonder and the only guy that can be used to argue the "System" ideology.

Mike Anderson (6’0 230) 6th round out of Utah. Power and speed combo. Has had 2 1000+ seasons. One during his first season at 1487 with 15 td’s the year was 2000. He then had a rebirth with 1014yrds with 12 td’s in 2005. I would say it is not normal to overlook a guy from Utah in a draft class with Shaun Alexander, Ruben Droughns, Jemal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Ron Dayne, Trung Canidate. Robaire Smith, Tom Brady, and David Nugent were all taken after Anderson. Mark Bulger was also taken in the 6th round of this draft. Anderson is a good back not a systems product. He went to a small school and he was being drafted in the time fram when people were not finding so many GEM's from the small schools. I think he was a diamond in the rough not a product of a system.

My main argument is that if people around here think that Lundy is going to be this 1,000+ yard producer because of the Denver System I hope you know that it was not a Denver System that put up the numbers, it was legit Backs and great O-Linemen. The best of that group were two 2nd round picks and one 6th that played with John Elway at the command not David Carr. To believe you can plug anyone into this scheme and produce a 1000+ rusher is just stupid!!!!!!!!!
Note: Elway had ZERO rings before Davis got there, the same amount of knee ligaments Davis had after Elway retired. I get your point; Lundy can't hold a candle to Davis or Portis, but he can be a 1000 yard back. The fact is that this O-line can't be mentioned in the same breath as Denver's, not yet anyway. I say Lundy is plenty talented, he hits holes and runs hard; he play upfront just needs to be consistent...
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Old 09-11-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Let's not forget who lined up on the either side of the ball yesterday.
We've been hearing that for 5 years now. Eventually, the Texans are going to have to be able to play with the big boys. Schedules are always going to be tough and they are always going to have to go into hostile territories. They need to suck it up and get the job done.
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Old 09-11-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneStarState
We've been hearing that for 5 years now. Eventually, the Texans are going to have to be able to play with the big boys. Schedules are always going to be tough and they are always going to have to go into hostile territories. They need to suck it up and get the job done.
That is correct. Yet when you start a new backfield, a new TE, a rookie LT, a new Center, a new WR and with a new coaching staff and go up against an agressive defense the result may not meet the expectations of some.
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Old 09-11-2006   #16
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I do not believe it is a system that gains the 1000 yards but a core of OL that are good blockers, and a Running Back that can pickem up and putem down. You hear those idiot announcers making comments about how Houston can justify passing on Bush because of the system and that is such garbage. We can justify passing on Bush because our D-Line was crap last year and we had D.Davis. The scheme does not open the holes and the scheme does not hit the hole in a flash. Morency hits the hole faster than Lundy, he blocks better, he catches better. Morency is our best bet IMO because he has that scat back ability once past the linebackers. For people who think Bush would not have done well in this system they are our of their f-ing mind. Portis, Davis, T. Bell, all the size of Bush, all have that ability to break it every play, but none hit the hole as fast as Bush. Lundy is not T. Davis as far as vision or speed, and Lundy is not Anderson as far as size and bruising ability. I do not see Lundy gaining 1000+ I hope he does but I dont see it with this OL or with his ability.
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Old 09-12-2006   #17
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You also have to take into account that the Denver system has a smaller a quicker O line, than what Kubiak is working with now.....that will take time to get in place....
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