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Old 09-07-2006   #1
Marcus
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Default 9/6 Justice article on Carr

I'm shocked that's 9 am and nobody has linked THIS yet, because IMO, it's one of his more informative reads.

He does make a lot of assumptions about how much that Carr really knows or understands what he's doing wrong.



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Old 09-07-2006   #2
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Originally Posted by Marcus
I'm shocked that's 9 am and nobody has linked THIS yet, because IMO, it's one of his more informative reads.

He does make a lot of assumptions about how much that Carr really knows or understands what he's doing wrong.



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Nice read. At least they're seeing what the fans are seeing. That's the first step, now let's hope he can achieve the second step.
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Old 09-07-2006   #3
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The Texans used their first draft pick ever on a franchise quarterback, then never gave him a chance to succeed. They never protected him, never put enough talent around him.
That says alot. Good read.
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Old 09-07-2006   #4
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I guess it largely depends on how you define "a chance to succeed." I think that most people would concur that giving the #1 player in the draft the starting position would the be the only "chance" they need. If they need more than that what was their real value as a #1?
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Old 09-07-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I guess it largely depends on how you define "a chance to succeed." I think that most people would concur that giving the #1 player in the draft the starting position would the be the only "chance" they need. If they need more than that what was their real value as a #1?
Well I guess Elway, Aikman, Manning have all had no value then since all needed teams built around them. Way, way overstated KT.

[disclaimer for the reading impaired--nothing in this post is comparing any talent or attribute of any QB whose name does not appear in this post with any QB whose name is mentioned]
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Old 09-07-2006   #6
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Well I guess Elway, Aikman, Manning have all had no value then since all needed teams built around them. Way, way overstated KT.

[disclaimer for the reading impaired--nothing in this post is comparing any talent or attribute of any QB whose name does not appear in this post with any QB whose name is mentioned]
Nice throw in with a salary cap era #1 QB. But whether its his name or Carr's I do not like #1 QB's. However, Manning went through 3-13 and turned out alright. Maybe it is in his DNA.
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Old 09-07-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I guess it largely depends on how you define "a chance to succeed." I think that most people would concur that giving the #1 player in the draft the starting position would the be the only "chance" they need. If they need more than that what was their real value as a #1?
Well, if they actually concur with with that, then they are being naive. John Elway, Roger Staubach, and a host of other great quarterbacks had to have a team around them in order to give them "a chance to succeed".
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Old 09-07-2006   #8
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I guess it largely depends on how you define "a chance to succeed." I think that most people would concur that giving the #1 player in the draft the starting position would the be the only "chance" they need. If they need more than that what was their real value as a #1?

I hope your statement wasn't serious, atleast not in his case. Having a #1 player going to an undeveloped football team and having them turn all pro out of the gate is asking too much from anyone, especially the QB position. Now do I think it's time for him to show major improvement or step aside, absolutely. It's going to be hard to undo the damage caused by the last 4 years, maybe it can't be done, but we will know midway or later in this season if he's worthy of being our starting QB. I know you weren't insinuating the he be an all pro type player right off the bat, but he should have had the opportunity to be better than he has been and I am aggrevated that he wasn't given a legit chance to excel in a good system. Unfortunately, there have been too many "what ifs" over the last couple of seasons and we're all holding on to peices of hope that we've seen in random games of the past. Will he look like he did when we played Minnesota and he brought us back for overtime? Will he look like he did when he was able to call his own plays? Who knows, but we will find out this Sunday and put some of these questions/issues to rest.
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Old 09-07-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by Marcus
Well, if they actually concur with with that, then they are being naive. John Elway, Roger Staubach, and a host of other great quarterbacks had to have a team around them in order to give them "a chance to succeed".
I only speak in these terms in the salary cap era. It is a different game than back then.
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Old 09-07-2006   #10
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It was a pretty good article because Carr knows he's got to step it up and is under pressure to perform, not just learn. The only thing about the article that is suspect is where he says "Kubiak has taken care of the talent issues." No, Kubiak has addressed a bad system, he is far from done in bringing in talent. Does anyone think he's going to overcome his shellshockness in one game against the Eagles under Kubiaks new system? I want to talk to you......gotta nice big area of land in Arizona I might be interested in selling.
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Old 09-07-2006   #11
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I guess it largely depends on how you define "a chance to succeed." I think that most people would concur that giving the #1 player in the draft the starting position would the be the only "chance" they need. If they need more than that what was their real value as a #1?
You can't really believe what you just typed?..

Your Carr-hate-itis has caused you to lose all perspective where he is concerned.

JMHO of course.

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Old 09-07-2006   #12
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You can't really believe what you just typed?..
I couldn't believe he said that either. I'm not going to bother to respond to it any more than I already did.
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Old 09-07-2006   #13
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Originally Posted by cuppacoffee
You can't really believe what you just typed?..

Your Carr-hate-itis has caused you to lose all perspective where he is concerned.

JMHO of course.

If you are someone who is not in the business of defining expectations, setting them appropriately over a term and then measuring them accordingly due to the percentage of the cap that investment takes up then I can understand your lack of understanding by my statement. JMHO of course.
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Old 09-07-2006   #14
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That was a good read. It sounds to me that the players, coaches, most fans and even the Chronicle is pulling for David to become the QB we've always wanted him to be. I certainly hope that he does it. The odds seem to be in his favor.
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Old 09-07-2006   #15
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That was a good read. It sounds to me that the players, coaches, most fans and even the Chronicle is pulling for David to become the QB we've always wanted him to be. I certainly hope that he does it. The odds seem to be in his favor.
From what I gather, it's all up to him now. Kubiak has supplied him with the weapons, the protection (hopefully) and the QB friendly offensive scheme/playbook. He's got to learn to trust his teamates again.
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Old 09-07-2006   #16
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Originally Posted by SESupergenius
It was a pretty good article because Carr knows he's got to step it up and is under pressure to perform, not just learn. The only thing about the article that is suspect is where he says "Kubiak has taken care of the talent issues." No, Kubiak has addressed a bad system, he is far from done in bringing in talent. Does anyone think he's going to overcome his shellshockness in one game against the Eagles under Kubiaks new system? I want to talk to you......gotta nice big area of land in Arizona I might be interested in selling.
Before I read that article, I wondered if Carr really understood what he was doing on the field that was driving everyone crazy. I guess it's driving him crazy too . . that being unable to conquer his own demons.

I wonder if he drinks tequila. Seems to me a shot or two of Patron just before he gets on the field would settle his nerves, and he'd do just fine.
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Old 09-07-2006   #17
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Originally Posted by SESupergenius
It was a pretty good article because Carr knows he's got to step it up and is under pressure to perform, not just learn. The only thing about the article that is suspect is where he says "Kubiak has taken care of the talent issues." No, Kubiak has addressed a bad system, he is far from done in bringing in talent. Does anyone think he's going to overcome his shellshockness in one game against the Eagles under Kubiaks new system? I want to talk to you......gotta nice big area of land in Arizona I might be interested in selling.
I'll buy that if you throw the Golden Gate in free.

I agree with you, SES. But it is still interesting to see the responses that the players have to his changes, and not just the fans. I do not expect Carr to immediately turn into an All-Pro QB in one game, much less one season. But I do expect changes, of which we have already seen. We will have to wait until Sunday to truely know if Carr trusts his line.... and it will be an exceptional test indeed. It is hard to admit, but the Eagles have one of the most powerful D-lines I have ever laid eyes on (Yes, these are young eyes... I was not around for the Steel Curtain and so on).

To KT.... I agree with you that #1 QBs are dangerous. But in this case I feel that it was a number of things that have led to his performance. You can't expect a #1 to just come in and change a team. They got that #1 pick for a reason, as you know (even though it was a unique situation with the Texans).
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Old 09-07-2006   #18
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
If you are someone who is not in the business of defining expectations, setting them appropriately over a term and then measuring them accordingly due to the percentage of the cap that investment takes up then I can understand your lack of understanding by my statement. JMHO of course.
And your are?

What cap numbers do you have to work with?

What number do you assign to your quarterback?

I am sure that Carr is disappointed that he is not living up to your expectations...

Explain please how you can expect Carr to be successful simply because of his cap number? :brickwall

I understand your statement thoroughly. Conclusion, you do not understand the team concept.


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Old 09-07-2006   #19
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Nice throw in with a salary cap era #1 QB. But whether its his name or Carr's I do not like #1 QB's. However, Manning went through 3-13 and turned out alright. Maybe it is in his DNA.
No QB in the salary cap era or otherwise succeeds without tools around him. The problem with your whole #1 QB's are bad rap is no other position is worth any more for the #1. Now its fine (but unrealistic) to say every team should trade out but there is no reason to slam guys picked there because of a system they don't control.

As for Manning yes he is a better natural QB but you think having Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison, Marcus Pollard, etc. to play with might have contributed?
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Old 09-07-2006   #20
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Gary Kubiak won't sacrifice a season for Carr.

If Carr continues to make the same mistakes he made in the preseason, Sage Rosenfels will play. We're not there yet. We don't know how Carr is going to perform, and we don't know how patient Kubiak is going to be.
This says all I need to know. There is no need to wig out on our QB right now. Trust our head coach, his judgement, and most importantly, his will to win. Kubiak is not going to let any player - let alone Carr - bring the team down without doing something about it.

On another note, I really like what I hear from Moulds, both in attitude and commitment to helping this team. His leadership and communication skills are great, and I think he can help Carr as much as anyone right now. I'm so glad we picked this dude up. He will prove to be a very valuable asset, IMO.
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