ESPN: Houston Texasn are the Sports version of Enron

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by Doug

My comment was not made due to the particular quote I chose but the overall outlook of texanfaninla in general, and his Michael Smith comment is sarcasm.

oh right...sorry, i dont pay too much attention to where every1 stands in the mario/ bush thing....


anyway this thread is going down the path of soooooooooo many other threads with the 'reggie sucks' comments:brickwall

[PhillyFan]

I half agree with the guy, but he went waaay overboard.


If you had taken Bush...he would be a superstar immediately...and would have taken a load off of Carr. Just changing to the ZB scheme, your offensive line improved. Where NO's stinks to high heavens. So now, Bush is rotting away in NO, the same that Deuce did. Great player on a crap team...amounts to an absolutely craptacular career.

It isnt the end of the world that you didnt take him. You really should have, because he would have won you 2 games alone this year. But...you didnt, and now that time has passed. The media should let it go already.

I understand everyone defending the FO for taking a defensive linemen. But superstar running backs that can cure cancer come along every 20 years or so, where DE's come out every few years.

[GP]

Originally Posted by texansfaninla

Simmons is right on the money. Mario is a project and Bush is the most talented college player in years to come to the NFL. The fact that Wali Lundy is starting, with Vernand Morency and Ron Dayne as backups, is a joke when you consider that the Texans could have had Reggie Bush. The logic isn't there. The only people who support this move are the FO (who said they would rely on Davis), Michael Smith of ESPN, Mark Schlereth of ESPN, and this message board. Don't act so surprised when somebody like Simmons points out the obvious.

I take your opinion with a grain and-a-half of salt.

You live in Louisiana, and although you say you're a Texans fan...you do way too much publicity work for Reggie Bush to be taken seriously here IMO. OK, OK, I know: A dissenting opinion should be welcome, even among Texans fans...and "No," I'm not saying you have to be "in step" with what the majority of us think. So save the martyr attitude if rpelying to what I am saying.

But here's the deal: Our running back situation is NOt dire as you and others try to say. Our system works just fine. Would you draft Terrell Davis in the 6th or 7th round if you were running an NFL team? You probably wouldn't. You and Bill Simmons would look at your NFL Fantasy Cheat sheet provided to you and you would make the "safe" and "easy" pick when it was your turn.

For every Gale Sayers, there is a Kijana Carter and Laurence Phillips waiting to happen. It's NOT science.

Secondly, Bill Simmons' piece is not the truth, it's built on speculation. Looking back on the Jordan-Bowie situation, how it all played out over the courses of their careers, "Yes" you can say it was stupid to pass Jordan up. But to say that a team should be able to see it on draft day is a little presumptuous, to say the least.

At some point, it just is pure fan arrogance to say "Anybody could have seen that Jordan was going to be great" AFTER it happens. In fact, it ought to be a sports crime for people to prop themselves up and make fun of organizations for passing on the "sure thing." You place yourself in such a ridiculous state of being that it's maddening to most others how you can be so arrogant when you do not know if Next Superstar is actually going to be a Superstar at all. Want to predict? That's fine. But to rub people's noses in it is beyond me. It's pure arrogance.

The thing with humor is this: It has to contain an element of truth or it isn't funny. I don't see any truth (yet) to the CLAIM or to the SPECULATION that Reggie Bush is going to be the next big thing. He was getting a second education this preseason with defenders grabbing him and ripping him down when he would try his little "bloop" that was so effective against Pac-10 teams, but he was largely getting schooled out there this preseason. There is no TRUTH to Simmons' claims, nor yours, that he's the Jordan of football. No truth at all. It's all speculation as of right now, and it will be until he has proven it on the field over the course of his career.

This is why I am upset. Pieces like his are barely worth the effort of reading. It's a puff piece. it's a guy getting paid a lot of money to sit around and just tell us what he thinks. I'd rather watch the season for myself and make my own decisions as to who's doing well and who isn't.

But, the easy thing to do is to trust someone who is building his story based on speculation. If you want to get your sports news from Huggy Bear, then that's fine with me. Good luck to ya.

[texansfaninla]

Publicity work? My point is that we should have taken Bush over Mario. Period. I think Bush would have been a perfect fit in this system. A coach who knows how to get his offensive line to open up holes, plus a guy with the burst and speed of Bush to get down into the open field, would have (a) given the Texans a home run hitter, (b) taken pressure off of Carr, and (c) opened up the whole offense.

Now, I agree with you to a certain extent - Nothing is 100 percent guaranteed in the NFL draft. But based on not just performance, but sheer domination in college (guy averaged almost 10 yards a touch, which nobody has approached - not Barry Sanders, not Marcus Allen, nobody), he was the closest to a sure thing that was available. Passing on that reeks of stupidity.

You have the No. 1 overall pick, you make the "safe" and "easy" selection when it's available. This was no Alex Smith draft. There was a clear top dog, and the Texans were the only team that would have passed to take a defensive project who looked good at a combine. Sure, other teams might say they had Mario atop their boards, but when it comes down to it, how many would have actually pulled the trigger? Only one. Maybe that's why they are 18-46 thus far - worst start in NFL expansion history, if I'm not mistaken. (Tampa had the same record to start, but at least made it to a conference title game.)

Go back and look at the defensive linemen taken No. 1 overall - you'll find a lot more Courtney Brown and Aundray Bruce than Bruce Smith (who was great but, like Barry Sanders, never won a Super Bowl).

As for the running backs you mention:
KiJana Carter - blew out his knees. Bad luck.
Lawrence Phillips - you knew that wasn't going to end well, with his extremely problematic criminal attitude problems.

Mario is a project who will also be scrutinized heavily for the rest of his career in comparison to Bush, because it was such a shock that he was taken over Bush. Let's hope the kid from a town of less than a thousand people can handle that pressure.

And - I know everyone says Bush hasn't done anything with New Orleans. Maybe he's been holding back, just like Mario supposedly has been. Maybe he's been finding his spot. Maybe he plays behind a putrid offensive line with no discernable blocking scheme.

Switch the players with the teams. Mario is probably doing with the Saints exactly what he's doing now. Bush, on the other hand, is probably electrifying everyone with highlight runs through the same holes Wali Lundy has benefited from, and would have gained more yards than Lundy has. He wouldn't have to run around end, because he would have holes to run through.

Bush has a long history of success, going back to Pop Warner. Mario? One really good year (at least half a year - weren't all his sacks in like five games?), no first team All American (or all conference) honors, and a great combine performance.

So with that, I'll stop my "rant". (I know, I know - thank God, right?) I think what I think, you guys think what you think, and that's that. At least we have a forum to express our disagreements in a civil manner.

[srstex]

I think it's great that this whole thread revolves around an article written by a man that never played in the NFL. Unless you were born this year, everyone should have known we weren't going to take Bush because of Kubiak's back ground, and HIS system. I doubt that I was the only one that knew this, I personally wanted Ferguson, but Kubiak wanted Williams, and his decisions have led us to a 3-1 preseason record, that is a start. Look a VY, now the Titans have picked up Kerry Collins, so his hype is already fading.
Have faith Texans fans, Kubiak will bring us the season we have been waiting for.

[NJ Texan]

I guess I was one of the few Texans fans who were happy that they picked Mario over Reggie. The reasons of which have already been stated in this thread.

[joetexan]

I've come around. I once was in the Bush camp but have since converted. I love Mario. He is going to be a beast, and Lundy will be a stud too. I can't express how excited I am about this season. Now if Carr can step up.......

In Kubiak I trust.

[Chicagotexan1]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Bill Simmons writes humor/reaction pieces...this is par for his course.

If that's a nice way of saying k-wrap and b.s. then i agree.

[Shader]

Lets wait to call Lundy a stud until he actually does something. If we'll use this logic on Bush, lets do the same with Lundy.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by texansfaninla

I think Bush would have been a perfect fit in this system.

Coach Kubiak - the brains behind this system you speak of - obviously disagrees with you.

Don't you think "perfect" is a tad bit overboard? I have no doubt Kubiak would have picked "perfect", if it was available. But he clearly did not think Reggie Bush was "perfect" for his system, or he'd be a Texan right now.

I'm not down on RB (matter-of-fact, I think he'll be a great NFL talent). But he is not God, cannot cure cancer, and will not carry an entire football team to the promised land by his lonesome self.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I'm not down on RB (matter-of-fact, I think he'll be a great NFL talent). But he is not God, cannot cure cancer, and will not carry an entire football team to the promised land by his lonesome self.

Nope--that guy is in TN--I hear he makes kittens from his tears as well.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

oh right...sorry, i dont pay too much attention to where every1 stands in the mario/ bush thing....


anyway this thread is going down the path of soooooooooo many other threads with the 'reggie sucks' comments:brickwall

I have yet to see someone say that Reggie sucks or even something remotely close to it in this thread.

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by Doug

I have yet to see someone say that Reggie sucks or even something remotely close to it in this thread.

When the game was on the line, he was on the sideline. He wont run up the middle.

then somebody said gale sayers sucked...because reggie was compared to gale....

there probably was more further back but i couldnt be bothered finding them




it was definitely starting to creep in

[GP]

Texansfaninla:

Reggie running through the same holes as Lundy?

Nope.

Kubiak wants a one-cut and GO! running back. A guy who doesn't dance and try to make things happen on his own. A guy who reads the hole(s) and choose one to explode through.

That's NOT Reggie Bush.

Reggie dances. He spins. He bloops to the outside. He cuts it back, and then back again, and then back again if he can. It's all nice to watch, but in the NFL you just get Barry Sanderized...the focal point of the defense's efforts, and a one-dimentional running game.

And that, in essence, is why Kubiak preferred to go the Denver route and grab an inexpensive running back. Draft quality on the d-line because it's where we have absoutely stunk it up all our life.

I don't think it gets anymoire clearer than how I just explained it.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by ronaldod1

I tend to agree with the guy.

Do you honestly think there is another team in the NFL that Wali Lundy would be the starter for?

The RB situation is mediocre at best, in my opinion.

The Broncos are starting an undrafted free agent. So... yeah... Lundy could probably be starting with the Broncos.

Seems about right.

I'm actually feeling good about our RB situation.

[texansfaninla]

GP Shafer...Did you watch Reggie Bush in college? Many times he hit the open hole, then got in open field to "dance around". Other plays, he went around end on sweeps.

Besides that, and more importantly, Kubiak would have coached Bush kind of like he has Morency - who a lot of people say is better than Lundy. Kubiak would have coached Bush to make his cut, hit the hole, get downfield. When he gets into open space, heck, if he can make guys miss and get more yardage, awesome.

I tell you what - If Lundy and/or Morency has a terrible game, and Mario has no sacks or plays poorly, people will reach a fever pitch. Then many of you will say, "Don't worry, morons. It's just one game. You must wait for the system to get in place and for Mario to develop." Then, if Lundy/Morency stinks up the joint and Mario doesn't develop into anything but a Courtney Brown........

(Sorry - I intended for my previous post to be the last one on this subject.)

[NJ Texan]

Originally Posted by texansfaninla

GP Shafer...Did you watch Reggie Bush in college? Many times he hit the open hole, then got in open field to "dance around". Other plays, he went around end on sweeps.

Besides that, and more importantly, Kubiak would have coached Bush kind of like he has Morency - who a lot of people say is better than Lundy. Kubiak would have coached Bush to make his cut, hit the hole, get downfield. When he gets into open space, heck, if he can make guys miss and get more yardage, awesome.

I tell you what - If Lundy and/or Morency has a terrible game, and Mario has no sacks or plays poorly, people will reach a fever pitch. Then many of you will say, "Don't worry, morons. It's just one game. You must wait for the system to get in place and for Mario to develop." Then, if Lundy/Morency stinks up the joint and Mario doesn't develop into anything but a Courtney Brown........

(Sorry - I intended for my previous post to be the last one on this subject.)

What about the reverse being true? Say Bush does terrible in N.O. or get's injured. People would applaud the Texans for signing Mario. In the end, I still believe it was the better decision.

[run-david-run]

Originally Posted by texansfaninla

Publicity work? My point is that we should have taken Bush over Mario. Period. I think Bush would have been a perfect fit in this system. A coach who knows how to get his offensive line to open up holes, plus a guy with the burst and speed of Bush to get down into the open field, would have (a) given the Texans a home run hitter, (b) taken pressure off of Carr, and (c) opened up the whole offense.

Now, I agree with you to a certain extent - Nothing is 100 percent guaranteed in the NFL draft. But based on not just performance, but sheer domination in college (guy averaged almost 10 yards a touch, which nobody has approached - not Barry Sanders, not Marcus Allen, nobody), he was the closest to a sure thing that was available. Passing on that reeks of stupidity.

You have the No. 1 overall pick, you make the "safe" and "easy" selection when it's available. This was no Alex Smith draft. There was a clear top dog, and the Texans were the only team that would have passed to take a defensive project who looked good at a combine. Sure, other teams might say they had Mario atop their boards, but when it comes down to it, how many would have actually pulled the trigger? Only one. Maybe that's why they are 18-46 thus far - worst start in NFL expansion history, if I'm not mistaken. (Tampa had the same record to start, but at least made it to a conference title game.)

Go back and look at the defensive linemen taken No. 1 overall - you'll find a lot more Courtney Brown and Aundray Bruce than Bruce Smith (who was great but, like Barry Sanders, never won a Super Bowl).

As for the running backs you mention:
KiJana Carter - blew out his knees. Bad luck.
Lawrence Phillips - you knew that wasn't going to end well, with his extremely problematic criminal attitude problems.

Mario is a project who will also be scrutinized heavily for the rest of his career in comparison to Bush, because it was such a shock that he was taken over Bush. Let's hope the kid from a town of less than a thousand people can handle that pressure.

And - I know everyone says Bush hasn't done anything with New Orleans. Maybe he's been holding back, just like Mario supposedly has been. Maybe he's been finding his spot. Maybe he plays behind a putrid offensive line with no discernable blocking scheme.

Switch the players with the teams. Mario is probably doing with the Saints exactly what he's doing now. Bush, on the other hand, is probably electrifying everyone with highlight runs through the same holes Wali Lundy has benefited from, and would have gained more yards than Lundy has. He wouldn't have to run around end, because he would have holes to run through.

Bush has a long history of success, going back to Pop Warner. Mario? One really good year (at least half a year - weren't all his sacks in like five games?), no first team All American (or all conference) honors, and a great combine performance.

So with that, I'll stop my "rant". (I know, I know - thank God, right?) I think what I think, you guys think what you think, and that's that. At least we have a forum to express our disagreements in a civil manner.

Vernon Morency was told, straightfoward by Kubiak, if you dance around, you wont play. He was told to go straight to the hole, get as many yards as possible and stop trying to "create" somehing by himself. The end result? He averaged about 9 yards a carry with two TD's in his first game under Kubiak. Do you honestly think Reggie would do the same? You really think that after years of playing with one of the most dominant O-lines in college and still bouncing everything to the outside he would suddenly start running North/South?
Also, DD was significantly bigger then Bush, he was hurt after two years in the NFL and will probably never play again. Running back is the position with the lowest career time in the NFL, about 5 years. Esppecially with the way Reggie runs (lots of cutbacks, going back into the middle), he opens himself up to big hits that could very likley end his career.
If you really want to go with the "safe" pick at the top of the draft, you take a player who is immediately going to make an impact on EVERY PLAY, not 15-20 a game.

[run-david-run]

Originally Posted by Maddict5

then somebody said gale sayers sucked...because reggie was compared to gale....

there probably was more further back but i couldnt be bothered finding them




it was definitely starting to creep in

Umm....unless Im mistaken, its quite common knowledge Reggie was on the sideline practicaly the entire 4th quarter, esspecially that key 4th and 2 play?

[Chance_C]

Besides that, and more importantly, Kubiak would have coached Bush kind of like he has Morency - who a lot of people say is better than Lundy. Kubiak would have coached Bush to make his cut, hit the hole, get downfield. When he gets into open space, heck, if he can make guys miss and get more yardage, awesome.

Which contradicts what you said previously about RB being a perfect fit for out system. In fact Lundy is more of a perfect fit for our system because he was part of a ZBS in college. I'm not parroting Lundy over Bush by no means, but RB was not a perfect fit for our system. Do I think he could be "coached up" to our system? Probably, and he would probably be very effective. I just am going to keep my fingers crossed for Mario and the Texans, and whatever RB does in the Big Easy really doesn't matter to me.