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Old 09-03-2006   #1
gtexan02
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Default The value of veterans.

Is anyone else a bit nervous that with all the recent cuts, we are losing the ever important "value of veterans?"

In Madden, you can draft all rookies, start your franchise, develop them, and in a year or two your team will be winning the superbowl year in and year out. Old players are always passed over.

Im just wondering if anyone is concerned with all the cuts of vets we are making? Cowart, Robaire, Antoine Smith, etc.

Maybe they don't have as much in the motor as they used to, but their leadership on the field and in the locker room are invaluable.

Look at DRob. Remember his rookie year, when he had A. Glenn on the opposite side? He was a stud, even when everyone threw to him. Last year he played well, but not as great as I expected. Was it the loss of leadership?

Remember our D after Sharper left?

Its scary to think that we have so much "depth" that we can cut proven players like Smith, Cowart, etc. And the loss of their leadership and veteran know how are the worst parts

Last edited by gtexan02; 09-03-2006 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 09-03-2006   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
Is anyone else a bit nervous that with all the recent cuts, we are losing the ever important "value of veterans?"

In Madden, you can draft all rookies, start your franchise, develop them, and in a year or two your team will be winning the superbowl year in and year out. Old players are always passed over.

Im just wondering if anyone is concerned with all the cuts of vets we are making? Cowart, Payne, Robaire, Antoine Smith, etc.

Maybe they don't have as much in the motor as they used to, but their leadership on the field and in the locker room are invaluable.

Look at DRob. Remember his rookie year, when he had A. Glenn on the opposite side? He was a stud, even when everyone threw to him. Last year he played well, but not as great as I expected. Was it the loss of leadership?

Remember our D after Sharper left?

Its scary to think that we have so much "depth" that we can cut proven players like Smith, Cowart, etc. And the loss of their leadership and veteran know how are the worst parts
First of all, Payne has not been lost as of now.

Second, Sharper was a ProBowl LB who was the leader of our defense, it was more than him just being a VETERAN.
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Old 09-03-2006   #3
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EXACTLY. It's almost as if...coaches are more interested in implementing their "system" rather than actually taking into consideration what players can do on the football field.
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Old 09-03-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf123
First of all, Payne has not been lost as of now.

Second, Sharper was a ProBowl LB who was the leader of our defense, it was more than him just being a VETERAN.
Had some confusion. Fixed in my edited version.
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Old 09-03-2006   #5
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Default Rambling Sunday night thoughts.

Exit Smith and Smith and Wand.

Enter Dayne and keep Salaam.

It is a delicate balance. Leadership v fresh legs. Big contracts v small.

Usually you don't know how if you worked the balance out right until they play. Difficult decisions.

This time of year always makes me a little sad because it would suck to work as hard as they do at practice to make a team and then not. I met one of the players who got cut and his wife her second day in town. I asked the wife where they were living and she said Houston.

I asked her what part of Houston, and she didn't know.

Her husband said it was some apartment in "The Medical Area." Then his wife rattled off all the different places they've lived.

I know they make more money than most, but no matter how much coin you make, it is hard losing your dream.
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Old 09-03-2006   #6
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I am a little surprised with some of the cuts, but at the same time it is a new staff and new system so everyone is starting pretty fresh, not quite like before where we cut our couple clear cut best players and leaders that had been in the system for the last three years. Some of the guys like Cowart and Antowain Smith were brand new anyways and never really got to become leaders, so they aren't a real big deal, and I don't know if Robaire was ever much of a leader, although I think he is a pretty good player. We will see how things work out, although our defense has looked pretty solid so far and we have some young guys stepping up and playing very well and becoming the leaders of that unit on the field, plus I think our coaching staff is providing much better leadership than the previous one so the on-field leadership is not quite as vital as before.

Last edited by MorKnolle; 09-03-2006 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 09-03-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by Cruuuuuuuz
EXACTLY. It's almost as if...coaches are more interested in implementing their "system" rather than actually taking into consideration what players can do on the football field.
Hmm, the team was 2-14 with an offense and defense which both ranked near the very bottom of the league. The "veterans" have proven what they can or can't do on the field. Getting "your" guys to fit "your" system is the proper move to make.
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Old 09-03-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
Is anyone else a bit nervous that with all the recent cuts, we are losing the ever important "value of veterans?"

Im just wondering if anyone is concerned with all the cuts of vets we are making? Cowart, Robaire, Antoine Smith, etc.
Yeah I must admit I'm a lil'concerned about the cuts, but as the veteran leadership, I think it's still present in some of the guys we have left.
Weaver, Moulds, Payne, Flanagan,McKinney,and I would even add Carr,D-Rob,AJ,Earl.
I think Kubiak want to start with a clean slate with the guys who he are comfartable with. Remember that Kube's is a hands-on HC. I'm pretty sure if anyone has a problem, they know they could go talk to him personally for that veteran leadership or just one of the young guys steps up and become a leader. From training camp, Kubiak has stated he has a young team and he was looking for someone to step up and become that leader, and these cuts have provided for that situation. So it's just a matter of time and games these guys go thru together before we know who is the leader. Remember these guys that got cut, were pretty much out performed by younger,hungrier guys that's ready to make a name for themselves.
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Old 09-03-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
Hmm, the team was 2-14 with an offense and defense which both ranked near the very bottom of the league. The "veterans" have proven what they can or can't do on the field. Getting "your" guys to fit "your" system is the proper move to make.
Fair enough. That's all true. 5-11 or 6-10 last year...if Kris Brown could hit some mutha$%$ing field goals....and that guy is gonna be a problem again this year...
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Old 09-03-2006   #10
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The difference between then and now is we have a leader. His name is Kubiak, and unlike Capers, won't depend on a washed up veteran to help his team know their direction. He'll be more than happy to give them directions...out the door if they don't perform
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Old 09-03-2006   #11
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Some of the moves shock me a little but I'm going to trust Kubiak and this new regime (spelling?). I find it hard to believe that we know more about these guys than the coaches do. I'm ok with the decisions they make as long as it pays off in the long run.

Let's not get too carried away with the good pre-season showing. Yes, this looks like a completely different team than last year but going from 2 - 14 to the playoffs is quite a lot to expect. I EXPECT to see improvement in the play on the field. I want to see us be competitive and start to learn how to win in the NFL. Kubiak knows how to do this. Sherman knows how, Smith knows how. I trust these guys and I trust McNair to give them some time. If we are not a playoff team by the end of next year then I will be concerned but right now I like the moves we have made. It will take a couple of years to get the "Run, Run, QB run for your life sack offense" out of these guys systems but they are on the right track.
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Old 09-03-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
Is anyone else a bit nervous that with all the recent cuts, we are losing the ever important "value of veterans?"

In Madden, you can draft all rookies, start your franchise, develop them, and in a year or two your team will be winning the superbowl year in and year out. Old players are always passed over.

Im just wondering if anyone is concerned with all the cuts of vets we are making? Cowart, Robaire, Antoine Smith, etc.

Maybe they don't have as much in the motor as they used to, but their leadership on the field and in the locker room are invaluable.

Look at DRob. Remember his rookie year, when he had A. Glenn on the opposite side? He was a stud, even when everyone threw to him. Last year he played well, but not as great as I expected. Was it the loss of leadership?

Remember our D after Sharper left?

Its scary to think that we have so much "depth" that we can cut proven players like Smith, Cowart, etc. And the loss of their leadership and veteran know how are the worst parts
I think its just that the coaching staff sees so much potential in our young players and believe they can coach them to where they want them to be.... Im not sure on this but maybe this was how shanahan done it back when he got hired for denver... Maybe we should expect to take a step back before we go forward...I know one thing.. denver has been the best team with the most wins in the last 10 years and i am willing to start over if we can get those kind of results from kubiak.....JMO
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Old 09-04-2006   #13
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If you read the press releas, you will see Kubiak mention that part of the decision to release Robair had to do with his large contract. That's kind of interesting, because Vinny indicated that Payne has been asked to restructure his deal. You don't suppose that Robair also was asked and balked at the idea and that tipped the scale for his release? It also brings to mind....why were we concerned at this time that he had a big contract, we don't have any cap issues yet? Are we clearing cap for some sort of deal or just getting started early for next year?
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Old 09-04-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf123
First of all, Payne has not been lost as of now.

Second, Sharper was a ProBowl LB who was the leader of our defense, it was more than him just being a VETERAN.
Exactly. In my opinion it's a mistake to just assume that because someone is a veteran that they're also a leader. The truth is that leaders aren't common and we didn't lose one when we waived Robaire Smith. Payne is IMO a much better veteran player than Robaire has ever been for us.
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Old 09-04-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [[Gary Kubiak]]
Sharper and Glenn = Functional at release

Vs

Wand and Robaire = Underachieved at point of release


Seems like Wand and Taylor will clear waivers anyways and sign to the practice squad.
I don't believe Seth Wand is eligable to go on our practice squad. I also don't think he was underachieving at the point in time that he was released. I think the team wanted to start Spencer and that meant Wand would be a backup. In that case Salaam could back up both sides whereas Wand has never shown much ability on the right.
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Old 09-04-2006   #16
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Exactly. In my opinion it's a mistake to just assume that because someone is a veteran that they're also a leader. The truth is that leaders aren't common and we didn't lose one when we waived Robaire Smith. Payne is IMO a much better veteran player than Robaire has ever been for us.
I would agree with this, Payne is supposed to be one of the hardest workers on the team off the field, in the weight room, etc, Robaire never was one to be an exemplary of these qualities and was not really a vocal leader at all either. I don't know that he detracted from the morale of the team like Gary Walker did at times in the past, but he wasn't much of a contributing team leader either.
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Old 09-04-2006   #17
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personally i think while Robaire may not have been a vocal leader he was intense enough to play for this team for a long time.. big strong nasty mauler i like those kind of guys in the middle. but hey i'm just a fan i can only say what I feel.
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