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Old 09-01-2006   #1
texansfaninla
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Default Mathias Kiwanuka versus Mario Williams

Here's an interesting (and concerning) breakdown of the preseason stats of Mathias Kiwanuka (drafted 32nd overall by the NY Giants) and Mario Williams (1st overall, Houston):

Kiwanuka - 7 tackles, 3 assists, 3.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 interception
Williams - 3 tackles, 1 assist

One is playing like a No. 1 overall pick. And it ain't Mario.
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Old 09-01-2006   #2
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To the best of my knowledge, one has also had the luxury of playing only one position on the line, I could be wrong though. I honestly believe you would see more production from Mario at this stage if he wasn't being moved around a lot. Let's see where Mario is in 3-5 years.
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Old 09-01-2006   #3
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The thing about defensive lineman is what are their duties within the scheme.

Mario could have done everything that was expected of him.

Not all lineman are responsible getting sacks or even tackles. In all lot of 4-3 schemes, the lineman are responsible for tieing up the line to allow the linebackers to make plays.

I think you need to know what was expected of Mario first before you make your assessment.

When they expect him to get sacks and schemes are designed for that and he doesn't get them, then he hasn't performed.

Case in point, Steve McMichael of the Bears. Considered one of the best football players of all time and defensive tackle. But, Steve McMichael's job was to tie up the line to allow Mike Singletary get the glory. It worked great. And after retiring and watching game film, Singletary called McMichael and thanked him for all his work.
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Old 09-01-2006   #4
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It could be because Kiwanuka is playing against the 3rd stringers. He is listed as a 3rd string player on their depth charts. I'm sure if we allowed Mario to go out there vs 2nd string O-Line he would have nice stats too.
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Old 09-01-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfaninla
Here's an interesting (and concerning) breakdown of the preseason stats of Mathias Kiwanuka (drafted 32nd overall by the NY Giants) and Mario Williams (1st overall, Houston):

Kiwanuka - 7 tackles, 3 assists, 3.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 interception
Williams - 3 tackles, 1 assist

One is playing like a No. 1 overall pick. And it ain't Mario.
pretty good stats by kiwanuka for a rook....come back when the games count... or after both have had some meaningful playing time. Too early to tell right now whos better.
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Old 09-01-2006   #6
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Playa, you must not have seen the Giants in preseason. The guy was pretty much playing against SCRUBS. He never once lined up against first teamers, put Mario in that situation and then holla back at me about his performance. I'm not even worried about MW, the guy is doing what's asked of him during the preseason, so ask this ? after a few games and him playing every down.
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Old 09-01-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfaninla
Here's an interesting (and concerning) breakdown of the preseason stats of Mathias Kiwanuka (drafted 32nd overall by the NY Giants) and Mario Williams (1st overall, Houston):

Kiwanuka - 7 tackles, 3 assists, 3.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 interception
Williams - 3 tackles, 1 assist

One is playing like a No. 1 overall pick. And it ain't Mario.
Wow.. the classic stupid statement of the week. You win!

Lets see.. One is on a team that didnt rank last in defense last year.. I wonder who that was. One has a good defense, and molded players. One cannot measure someone by thier play alone, but what he does to the others around him. In addition, he was even on the first team, but the THIRD team. Do me a favor and stop talking till you learn how the game is played.
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Old 09-01-2006   #8
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On what percentage of plays (against non-starters, mind you) was Kiwanuka double-teamed (I honestly don't know)? I haven't seen a single play this pre-season on which Mario was not double-teamed. Oh, except for the plays on which he was triple-teamed.
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Old 09-01-2006   #9
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texasfanila's agenda is to get a redo and draft Bush or VY .
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Old 09-01-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotCommander
It could be because Kiwanuka is playing against the 3rd stringers. He is listed as a 3rd string player on their depth charts. I'm sure if we allowed Mario to go out there vs 2nd string O-Line he would have nice stats too.
Is this guy even a starter? If not, than I think we should stop talking.
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Old 09-01-2006   #11
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i dont think its a big deal, but its definitely worth bringing up... based on statistics alone, it looks like kiwanuka is a force, and mario is nothing special. mario has to produce more than he has thus far in his career.
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Old 09-01-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfaninla
Here's an interesting (and concerning) breakdown of the preseason stats of Mathias Kiwanuka (drafted 32nd overall by the NY Giants) and Mario Williams (1st overall, Houston):

Kiwanuka - 7 tackles, 3 assists, 3.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 interception
Williams - 3 tackles, 1 assist

One is playing like a No. 1 overall pick. And it ain't Mario.
Now that you have convinced me, how do we get the world to spin in reverse on its axis and change the course of Texans' history?
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Old 09-01-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
On what percentage of plays (against non-starters, mind you) was Kiwanuka double-teamed (I honestly don't know)? I haven't seen a single play this pre-season on which Mario was not double-teamed. Oh, except for the plays on which he was triple-teamed.
You weren't watching very closely then. There were numerous times he was in one on one situations.
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Old 09-01-2006   #14
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I personally wanted Kiwanuka with the pick back in November(back when I figured we would be top 5, not #1. I'm happy with the Mario pick as well, but still to this day prefer Kiwi. It could be my BC bias, but I also think he is the more polished player and think they have similar upsides.
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Old 09-01-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
You weren't watching very closely then. There were numerous times he was in one on one situations.
a Here's an interesting (and concerning) breakdown of the preseason stats of Mathias Kiwanuka (drafted 32nd overall by the NY Giants) and Mario Williams (1st overall, Houston):

Kiwanuka - 7 tackles, 3 assists, 3.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 interception
Williams - 3 tackles, 1 assist

One is playing like a No. 1 overall pick. And it ain't Mario.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

so were you for drafting vince or reggie?

what the poster was saying that he wasnt exclusively at the end position like kiwanuka is. take the garnet or burnt orange contacts out and you can read a little better.

concerning? it's four preseason games. on the back of the football cards that you still collect, you wont see 2006 preseason on them. give this thing a little time.
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Old 09-01-2006   #16
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WOW, I can't even believe we are compaing Mario to Kiwanuka. I have watched the Giants this offseason and kiwanuka has not played one down against the first team in any game. He mostly playes on the third string and many times he gets destroyed on running plays. There is no comparison.
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Old 09-01-2006   #17
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Bring this one back when kiwi actually plays in the regular season, if he ever does. I never understood why the Giants took this guy when they had two stud DE's. They had a chance at Demeco they'll likely regret that for the next decade. He may end up being their missing link. I guess they think Lavar is the answer. Too many personnel mistakes I gotta give that division to the other Texas team.
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Old 09-01-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Preacher
Bring this one back when kiwi actually plays in the regular season, if he ever does. I never understood why the Giants took this guy when they had two stud DE's. They had a chance at Demeco they'll likely regret that for the next decade. He may end up being their missing link. I guess they think Lavar is the answer. Too many personnel mistakes I gotta give that division to the other Texas team.
Because Strahan is going to be 35 years old. If Strahan is off the books in two years, you have a first round freak to put in his place and an extra 5+ mil to shore up another part of that team. Kiwi was a top 15 pick for a majority of the season and only fell because of a cheapshot from that scumbag Butler.
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Old 09-02-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood_texan
The thing about defensive lineman is what are their duties within the scheme.

Mario could have done everything that was expected of him.

Not all lineman are responsible getting sacks or even tackles. In all lot of 4-3 schemes, the lineman are responsible for tieing up the line to allow the linebackers to make plays.

I think you need to know what was expected of Mario first before you make your assessment.
That sounds like the 3-4 to me.
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Old 09-02-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfaninla
Here's an interesting (and concerning) breakdown of the preseason stats of Mathias Kiwanuka (drafted 32nd overall by the NY Giants) and Mario Williams (1st overall, Houston):

Kiwanuka - 7 tackles, 3 assists, 3.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 interception
Williams - 3 tackles, 1 assist

One is playing like a No. 1 overall pick. And it ain't Mario.
Kiwanuka is playing with the 3rd team means he's playing against OLine guys that will be bouncers at strip clubs next week. He also saw a lot more time on the field. Let's see what happens when Mario actually gets to play a full game.
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