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Old 08-28-2006   #1
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Default Lundy is the starter

(Preface this with unless DD comes back, because DD has been the one offensive force for the last 3 years of our suffering, and I think he will be a beast in Kubiak's offense. Assuming he can get healthy. But please don't "argue" about this part.)


Now then, Lundy is our guy! You've seen him get it done on the field. Every game he's average more than 4 ypc. He doesn't dance. He makes his cut and he goes. You've heard Kubiak praise him. You've seen his college stats.

Now then. Why does everyone still like Morency so much? It seems like every thread I read says how great Morency is. Here are the things I've heard about him:

1. He is a more "polished" RB.
What the heck is a polished RB? He still gets caught dancing in the backfield and running east-west. This is anything but polished.

2. He has NFL experience.
Hmm. He played 1 year, carried the ball 50 times. Not really a lot of experience. This shouldn't be a difference maker.

3. He has a higher upside.
Yes, he is faster than Lundy. But at the same time, his speed and agility get him into trouble in the zone blocking system. He wants to get into the secondary and blaze past the defenders, but at the expense of gaining 2 or 3 yards.

4. He is a better blocker than Lundy.
Based on what? One preseason game? I will admit that he seemed to block very well against the Rams, but you can't base something this general on one performance. Kubiak even mentioned him having trouble with this skill in practice.

5. He has better stats than Lundy
This is simply not true. He has been outperformed by Lundy this preseason, even though Lundy has played in 3 games (to Morency's 2), and Lundy has played against the 1st string Defense, while Morency has played against the 2nd.


So here it is: Lundy is the better back in this system, and he's going to be awesome for us. Unless someone can explain to me why Morency gets so much praise, despite being outperformed, and despite Kubiak's statements otherwise, then lets hear it for Lundy!
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Old 08-29-2006   #2
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Default Wali Lundy the Starter?!?

I think we all know the very upsetting news about DD. That being said our starter come Sunday against the Eagles will likely be Wali Lundy over Morency. Kubiak said this coming into the 4th week of preseason, so I've got to believe that is going to happen. So can someone tell me why in the world Kubiak and his staff would start Lundy over Morency?

Morency does almost everything better than Lundy. He's faster. He runs harder. He has better hands (very important in this scheme). He blocks better (also very important). He's more atheltically mature. The only thing that Lundy has over Morency is size (which is a non-factor given that Morency runs harder), and vision in this zone blocking scheme, which Morency definitely has the tools to make up for..

I understand that Morency will still get a lot of PT, but come on. I'm sounding like a Lundy hater, and I pretty much am. Why? Cause he's clearly not better! What are the coaches seeing that I'm not? Add that to the really crappy news about DD and I'm a bit dismayed on our RB situation. Lundy is a considerable step down between the very talented duo of DD and Morency. I'll even go a step further and say he's got to be one of the worst starting RBs in the league (no I'm not exaggerating). I sound really biased here but I'm really trying not to be. I've watched the preseason games, and I'm just telling you what I see. I look at Morency and see a legit NFL starting RB. I look at Lundy and I see what he is: a 6th round pick (for legitimate reason) who's going to play his first NFL game as a rookie starter against Mcnabb's Eagles. Does that sound F'd up to you or what?
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Old 08-29-2006   #3
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Hey, I'm totally with you about Morency being an excellent back. But were you watching the same preseason games I have been watching? I mean, Lundy has torn it up. Especially for a 6th round draft pick and a rookie! Yes, he has made rookie mistake, like dropped passes and missed blocking assignments. But the kid can run and he's got heart like no other. The one thing Kubiak said about him is he just "has that fire in his eyes." And he does. Now, I am in total agreement that Morency did great this preseason. But where we disagree is I believe Lundy also did extremely well.
Let's do a review of the preseason so far. This preseason Wali Lundy rushed for 143 yards on 26 carries with 1 td. He averaged 5.5 yards per carry. Vernand Morency rushed for 131 yards on 24 carries with 2 td. He also averaged 5.5 yards a carry. Wali Lundy had 6 receptions for 52 yards. Vernand Morency also had 6 receptions but for 39 yds. Very similar stats if you ask me.
Now, keep in mind that Wali Lundy is a rookie and will make rookie mistakes, just as we have seen Mario make mistakes. Lundy had a few dropped passes and a few missed blocks. But does that make him a terrible football player? I mean you praise Morency, yet Wali Lundy, a 6th round pick, had better stats, other than touchdowns, than Morency, a third round back. Also, Morency is 26 years old. That doesn't leave much of a future. Yet if Lundy can be anything like he has been this preseason, he could have a very bright future ahead of him, as he is only 22. Wali Lundy has made mistakes this preseason. But I've got to agree with Kubes on this one. His dropped passes, in my opinion, were simply the result of Lundy's nervousness. His missed blocks, I'm certain, will be addressed in practice and Lundy has plenty of years ahead of him to improve upon his blocking abilities.
Morency is good, yes, and I like him as well. But Lundy could also turn out to be an exceptional back. He can catch the ball, he's quick, he's strong, and he is already familiar with the zone blocking scheme. But only time will tell. All I can tell you is have faith in Kubiak. He has already done something the Texans have never done before: HE WON TWO PRESEASON GAMES! Hey, so just trust him. I am sure he will pick the man that's the best for the job.
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Old 08-29-2006   #4
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I definitely agree that Morency is better and that he should start, but I think Lundy has done pretty well as well. Maybe Morency will take over more and more of the playing time after the season starts up.
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Old 08-29-2006   #5
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I saw Lundy improve with each of these three exhibition games--particularly from game 2 to game 3. I'm liking watching him progress nicely up the learning curve.

I like Morency, too, and frankly I'm happy with whichever one of them starts. But I think a mistake when considering Lundy is overlooking his rate of progress.
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Old 08-29-2006   #6
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Kubiak has stated he will rotate the RB's so its not a big deal who starts both will get pt, I think Lundy has more experience to this point with the 1st unit to date & a better straight ahead runner (which may spell trouble for Antowain Smith) with power, seems like his hands have improved which also makes him effective in the flats and coming off the edge. Vernand Morency has displayed good vision and cut-back ability plus good blocking for his size so if I were a fan of his I would not be too dissapointed, cause he will see plenty of pt.
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Old 08-29-2006   #7
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i put very little stock into this week's game ... before, during, or after. this is the last chance to see the 15-20 players who are on the bubble, and it's a week of rest and preperation for the starters. if i had to guess, i'd bet that morency will start against the eagles, however i'm sure we'll see a rbbc until there's a clear favorite. most likely, because lundy and morency are similar as far as talent level, they'll get rotated frequently each game depending on who's playing best that sunday.

what might cost lundy some serious playing time is his pass blocking though. against denver he was still trying to stand up the defender as opposed to cutting them down or redirecting them outside. we know that we'll be able to run the ball, but if lundy cant lend himself completely to the passing game, he's going to see more time on the sidelines.
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Old 08-29-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckw5814
Hey, I'm totally with you about Morency being an excellent back. But were you watching the same preseason games I have been watching? I mean, Lundy has torn it up. Especially for a 6th round draft pick and a rookie! Yes, he has made rookie mistake, like dropped passes and missed blocking assignments. But the kid can run and he's got heart like no other. The one thing Kubiak said about him is he just "has that fire in his eyes." And he does. Now, I am in total agreement that Morency did great this preseason. But where we disagree is I believe Lundy also did extremely well.
Let's do a review of the preseason so far. This preseason Wali Lundy rushed for 143 yards on 26 carries with 1 td. He averaged 5.5 yards per carry. Vernand Morency rushed for 131 yards on 24 carries with 2 td. He also averaged 5.5 yards a carry. Wali Lundy had 6 receptions for 52 yards. Vernand Morency also had 6 receptions but for 39 yds. Very similar stats if you ask me.
Now, keep in mind that Wali Lundy is a rookie and will make rookie mistakes, just as we have seen Mario make mistakes. Lundy had a few dropped passes and a few missed blocks. But does that make him a terrible football player? I mean you praise Morency, yet Wali Lundy, a 6th round pick, had better stats, other than touchdowns, than Morency, a third round back. Also, Morency is 26 years old. That doesn't leave much of a future. Yet if Lundy can be anything like he has been this preseason, he could have a very bright future ahead of him, as he is only 22. Wali Lundy has made mistakes this preseason. But I've got to agree with Kubes on this one. His dropped passes, in my opinion, were simply the result of Lundy's nervousness. His missed blocks, I'm certain, will be addressed in practice and Lundy has plenty of years ahead of him to improve upon his blocking abilities.
Morency is good, yes, and I like him as well. But Lundy could also turn out to be an exceptional back. He can catch the ball, he's quick, he's strong, and he is already familiar with the zone blocking scheme. But only time will tell. All I can tell you is have faith in Kubiak. He has already done something the Texans have never done before: HE WON TWO PRESEASON GAMES! Hey, so just trust him. I am sure he will pick the man that's the best for the job.

i pretty much agree with your post entirely. i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that kubiak knows running backs and this runnign scheme better than anyone on this board, and his evaluation is the correct one regardless of stats or stature.

/have some rep cwk, nice post
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Old 08-29-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckw5814
Hey, I'm totally with you about Morency being an excellent back. But were you watching the same preseason games I have been watching? I mean, Lundy has torn it up. Especially for a 6th round draft pick and a rookie! Yes, he has made rookie mistake, like dropped passes and missed blocking assignments. But the kid can run and he's got heart like no other. The one thing Kubiak said about him is he just "has that fire in his eyes." And he does. Now, I am in total agreement that Morency did great this preseason. But where we disagree is I believe Lundy also did extremely well.
Let's do a review of the preseason so far. This preseason Wali Lundy rushed for 143 yards on 26 carries with 1 td. He averaged 5.5 yards per carry. Vernand Morency rushed for 131 yards on 24 carries with 2 td. He also averaged 5.5 yards a carry. Wali Lundy had 6 receptions for 52 yards. Vernand Morency also had 6 receptions but for 39 yds. Very similar stats if you ask me.
Now, keep in mind that Wali Lundy is a rookie and will make rookie mistakes, just as we have seen Mario make mistakes. Lundy had a few dropped passes and a few missed blocks. But does that make him a terrible football player? I mean you praise Morency, yet Wali Lundy, a 6th round pick, had better stats, other than touchdowns, than Morency, a third round back. Also, Morency is 26 years old. That doesn't leave much of a future. Yet if Lundy can be anything like he has been this preseason, he could have a very bright future ahead of him, as he is only 22. Wali Lundy has made mistakes this preseason. But I've got to agree with Kubes on this one. His dropped passes, in my opinion, were simply the result of Lundy's nervousness. His missed blocks, I'm certain, will be addressed in practice and Lundy has plenty of years ahead of him to improve upon his blocking abilities.
Morency is good, yes, and I like him as well. But Lundy could also turn out to be an exceptional back. He can catch the ball, he's quick, he's strong, and he is already familiar with the zone blocking scheme. But only time will tell. All I can tell you is have faith in Kubiak. He has already done something the Texans have never done before: HE WON TWO PRESEASON GAMES! Hey, so just trust him. I am sure he will pick the man that's the best for the job.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Furthermore, Lundy saw opportunity and took advantage of it. Remember, Morrency and Lundy both entered camp at the same time, Lundy his the hole hard just like Morency. Morency had to run with ergency the second game of the season or he wouldn't be here. Let's also remember, if Lundy would have played extensively in that game instead of Morency, he would have had 95 yards. I also point out, Lundy has gained all of his years against 1A/1B defensive players. Morency hasn't and when Morency did, his ypc were less than Lundy's. That's not opinion, that's fact. Take out both of there longest runs and do the math. Lundy came out of the exact same blocking scheme in college, had an NFL Coach in college and did well. Yes Lundy missed blocks, but Morency did as well. I, like you like both Running backs and as I said in another post, I think both can rush for 1000 yards this year. Mike Bell is going to start for Denver, but Tatum Bell is going to benefit.
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Old 08-29-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
Kubiak has stated he will rotate the RB's so its not a big deal who starts both will get pt, I think Lundy has more experience to this point with the 1st unit to date & a better straight ahead runner (which may spell trouble for Antowain Smith) with power, seems like his hands have improved which also makes him effective in the flats and coming off the edge. Vernand Morency has displayed good vision and cut-back ability plus good blocking for his size so if I were a fan of his I would not be too dissapointed, cause he will see plenty of pt.
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Old 08-29-2006   #11
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I think they are both great running back. IMO Lundy looks like an every down back. I believe coach K will make the right choice
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Old 08-29-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.G.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Furthermore, Lundy saw opportunity and took advantage of it. Remember, Morrency and Lundy both entered camp at the same time, Lundy his the hole hard just like Morency. Morency had to run with ergency the second game of the season or he wouldn't be here. Let's also remember, if Lundy would have played extensively in that game instead of Morency, he would have had 95 yards. I also point out, Lundy has gained all of his years against 1A/1B defensive players. Morency hasn't and when Morency did, his ypc were less than Lundy's. That's not opinion, that's fact. Take out both of there longest runs and do the math. Lundy came out of the exact same blocking scheme in college, had an NFL Coach in college and did well. Yes Lundy missed blocks, but Morency did as well. I, like you like both Running backs and as I said in another post, I think both can rush for 1000 yards this year. Mike Bell is going to start for Denver, but Tatum Bell is going to benefit.
Ummm... Morency was a great back that played at OK St. His credentials are superior to Lundy's. He was rated by some as the next best back following the big 3 of Brown, Benson, and Cadillac. He just slipped to the later rounds because of age and lack of experience. I thought of him as a great steal for us. You're likely correct in that Lundy has more experience than Morency in this blocking scheme, but their physical abilities aren't comparable IMO. Morency is a guy with 2nd round ability. Lundy is a 6th rounder. And the stats don't tell the whole story. I saw Lundy run through some gaping holes that I could have run through, same with Morency. But I didn't see the burst, speed, and quickness that Morency has and that Lundy doesn't. Morency can break tackles and make people miss. Lundy just doesn't have the same ability.

But I am ranting too much. You guys are right when you said both will get lots of PT. And I'm very sure Kubiak will let their on-field performances speak for themselves once the season starts. I'm just not really sold on Lundy. He looks much slower and not much of a bruiser. He does find the hole and shows better patience than Morency does. We'll just have to wait for the season to start.
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Old 08-29-2006   #13
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Straight out the horses mouth:

Quote:
"They (Lundy and Morency) have played hard, and they've done a good job overall," Kubiak said. "Both are going to play, but if the season started (today), Lundy would be the starter, and Morency would play.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4147469.html
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Old 08-29-2006   #14
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I think he has seen more numbers put up by lundy...Im sure though that they will share time even in the season!
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Old 08-29-2006   #15
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Why has no one posted here? Is it because you realize I'm correct? I've seen at least 2 other topics about how much better Morency is than Lundy, yet with NO PROOF AT ALL!

This is becoming very silly very quickly. All these posts just praising Morency, and claiming how much better he's been, yet when you look at the stats and press conference quotes from Kubiak, it just doesn't add up!

Clearly the PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL COACHES would be more able to judge who is better than whom, and they have selected Lundy, who has put up the better numbers. Why is this so hard for people to see?

They both are averaging 5.5 ypc at this point in time. But if you take away Lundy's 25 yard rush (his longest) and Morency's 43 yard rush (his longest), Morency is only averaging 3.8 ypc to Lundy's 4.7! Lundy is just all around more consistent
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Old 08-29-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phan1
Ummm... Morency was a great back that played at OK St. His credentials are superior to Lundy's. He was rated by some as the next best back following the big 3 of Brown, Benson, and Cadillac. He just slipped to the later rounds because of age and lack of experience. I thought of him as a great steal for us. You're likely correct in that Lundy has more experience than Morency in this blocking scheme, but their physical abilities aren't comparable IMO. Morency is a guy with 2nd round ability. Lundy is a 6th rounder. And the stats don't tell the whole story. I saw Lundy run through some gaping holes that I could have run through, same with Morency. But I didn't see the burst, speed, and quickness that Morency has and that Lundy doesn't. Morency can break tackles and make people miss. Lundy just doesn't have the same ability.

But I am ranting too much. You guys are right when you said both will get lots of PT. And I'm very sure Kubiak will let their on-field performances speak for themselves once the season starts. I'm just not really sold on Lundy. He looks much slower and not much of a bruiser. He does find the hole and shows better patience than Morency does. We'll just have to wait for the season to start.
Yeah, I agree as well with us having to wait and see. I can only compare us to Denver since it's bascially the same situation there. 6 rounder here, undrafted rookie there, talented ex back from Oklahoma here that was told not to dance in the hole here, talented ex back from Oklahoma that was told the same thing there. Hey, if both are successful when they are in the game, it really doesn't matter. We'll know in Philly.
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Old 08-29-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phan1
I think we all know the very upsetting news about DD. That being said our starter come Sunday against the Eagles will likely be Wali Lundy over Morency. Kubiak said this coming into the 4th week of preseason, so I've got to believe that is going to happen. So can someone tell me why in the world Kubiak and his staff would start Lundy over Morency?

Morency does almost everything better than Lundy. He's faster. He runs harder. He has better hands (very important in this scheme). He blocks better (also very important). He's more atheltically mature. The only thing that Lundy has over Morency is size (which is a non-factor given that Morency runs harder), and vision in this zone blocking scheme, which Morency definitely has the tools to make up for..

I understand that Morency will still get a lot of PT, but come on. I'm sounding like a Lundy hater, and I pretty much am. Why? Cause he's clearly not better! What are the coaches seeing that I'm not? Add that to the really crappy news about DD and I'm a bit dismayed on our RB situation. Lundy is a considerable step down between the very talented duo of DD and Morency. I'll even go a step further and say he's got to be one of the worst starting RBs in the league (no I'm not exaggerating). I sound really biased here but I'm really trying not to be. I've watched the preseason games, and I'm just telling you what I see. I look at Morency and see a legit NFL starting RB. I look at Lundy and I see what he is: a 6th round pick (for legitimate reason) who's going to play his first NFL game as a rookie starter against Mcnabb's Eagles. Does that sound F'd up to you or what?
Lets take a look at your statements and see how reliable this post is:

1. Morency is faster - While I do agree he seems to play with more speed, Morency's 40 time is 4.67 (campus) while Lundy's was 4.55. (nfl.com draft profiles)

2. He runs harder - What? How the heck could you possibly know this? Kubiak has said that Lundy runs with a "fire in his eyes" yet I've heard nothing like this for Morency. Lundy runs more consistently, averaging 5.5 ypc (Morency also is averaging 5.5 ypc, but if you take away his 43 yarder, he's only averaging 3.8 ypc while Lundy without his long 25 yard rush is still averaging over 4.7 ypc).

3. He has better hands - Again, based on what? The one dropped pass by Lundy? Again, look at the stats. Lundy has more yards per reception than Morency does, and Lundy was one of the top pass catching backs out of the ACC last year.

4. He blocks better - In the 2 games Morency has played in, he may have performed his blocks better than Lundy. But lets not forger that Morency has had a lot of trouble in camp with this. Who is to say that when he goes up against 1st string D's like Lundy, he won't have more problems? Its way too early to say whether one is better here, as they haven't had enough exposure.

5. He's athletically more mature - What does that even mean? Nothing, right? "Athletically more mature"...hmm. I guess you mean he's older? And i can't think of why that would be better for a running back. Inf act, it would make me less likely to want to invest in him, if he isn't going to have a long future. Morency has carried the ball a total of 46 times in the NFL regular season. Thats not a whole of experience.

So basically, i don't get why you tihnk Morency is so much better. He's performed worse in camp (according to Kubiak), the same in games, and has only been playing with the 2nd string team. So why start him?
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Old 08-29-2006   #18
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I'm with you on Lundy.

Ever since he gave my son his game glove and autographed it I've been rooting for him.. and now look at him shining.. that's good. I hope he can bring 1000+ each year for years to come..
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Old 08-29-2006   #19
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whatever g. i'm for whoever the coaching staff picks, whether it be lundy or morency. you're really going mountain out of a molehill here.
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Old 08-29-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by dirty steve
whatever g. i'm for whoever the coaching staff picks, whether it be lundy or morency. you're really going mountain out of a molehill here.
I agree...I don't think one has proven that he is head and shoulders better than the other...I don't care which one starts because who ever is having the better game will get more reps...
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