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Old 08-18-2006   #1
gtexan02
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Default The potential disaster of the RB v. MW debates?

Is anyone else worried that all this Bush is the messiah, and Williams is a bust talk is effecting Williams?

Since the draft, I, and I know everyone else, has heard about 10,000 reports about how great Bush will be and how stupid it was for the Texans to pass on him. I have heard analogies covering every sport, every decision, etc, etc. Heck, I was in the heat of the debate for a long time. I still don't know which decision was the best, and frankly, it will be impossible to EVER know if it was the right decision. Each player would have progressed differently on each team, so no matter what happens, we can never really look back and thing "This was the best decision to make, I'm glad or I'm not glad we made it or didn't make it" If both players are awesome, or if MW is awesome and RB is terrible, we still can't know, because who knows what it would have been like if the other had played in the other stadium?

Anyway, I digress. What I'm most curious about is what people (especially ex or current athletes) think this is doing to the mental aspect of Williams game. If Bush goes out there and rushes 15 times for 35 yards, people gloss over it. If he breaks one long 25 yarder, people glorify him. If Williams on the other hand goes out there and plays a whole game, only to get 4 tackles or something, people jump all over him. If he goes out there and gets 2 sacks, people write it off as what they expected of him. Its a lose-lose situation for this guy.

Could all this pressure be building on him? Every time he gets stood up, is he not thinking about what the media is going to say? Every time he gets pancaked, does it mess with his confidence because he knows the entire country will see it? I've heard there are some coaches who are completely in your face if you make a mistake. Being in Williams shoes must be like having an entire country of those coaches, all jumping on you the second something goes wrong.

I'm actually very concerned for his playing confidence. I've seen what confidence, or the lack thereof, can do to a player. Look at B. Lidge. He has all the tools to be the best closer in the NL, but because of his confidence, has had a 5+ ERA and 1.6 WHIP all year long.

One of the reasons I'm writing this, is that I hope people will cheer him loudly on that first game of the season. I hope people will support the crap out of him everywhere they go. I hope people will stand in line for hours waiting for autographs, if only to give something back to the guy who has had the whole world trying to take it away. If he gets a sack, I want the stadium to erupt.
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Old 08-18-2006   #2
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He has had 11 snaps....I think most people are making way too big a deal about this entire situation that will take years to assess. I don't think he is stressed out over it at all.
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Old 08-18-2006   #3
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Thats exactly the point, though. People are already being critical to him after 11 snaps! I don't think you understood the poitn of my post. I was wondering what people think its doing/could do to his game?

I'm not trying to argue that he had a bad game and its all due to media pressure. Heck, I don't follow DL too closely except for fantasy stats, but I wasn't aware that they were supposed to get that many tackles per game in the first place! I thought he had a decent game. But this isn't about that game. It doesn't even matter. I'm trying to question whether or not his talent could in fact be jeopardized by a fear of media scrutiny later in the season
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Old 08-18-2006   #4
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I think I'd be MORE determined to kick me some Botox!!! Nothin' like a good Botox Kickin to get the monkey off the old back.
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Old 08-18-2006   #5
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I guess thats true. Some players get fired up from criticism, some players dwindle.

I would guess that TO raises his game, while I am confident that players like Seth Wand and in baseball, players like ARod seem to lose a little of their skills when being criticized
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Old 08-18-2006   #6
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Given that he only played a quarter, if Mario Williams HAD gotten a sack last week he'd be on pace to have a 64 sack season! (4X the rookie sack record)

How's that for unreasonable expectations.
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Old 08-18-2006   #7
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Exactly my point. People have unreasonable expectations for him. So whats the deal with this? Can this screw his confidence level up?
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Old 08-18-2006   #8
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I don't think most players care what fans think at this point in their careers.
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Old 08-18-2006   #9
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I wholeheartedly agree, but I don't necessarily blame the fans who are still questioning the logic. I place a lot of blame on the FO for putting Mario in that position in the first place. They should have taken the effects you mention into consideration. The pressure of being No. 1 overall is strong enough; add being taken ahead of Bush, and it's unbelievable pressure to perform.

Taking him No. 1 overall means he will forever be linked to Bush, fairly or unfairly. If they had traded down, Mario gets a lot less of this attention. If they had taken Bush, Bush takes on what he's expecting, and Mario does the same. They've basically set him up to fail miserably, because exceptional success is his only alternative.
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Old 08-18-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joetexan
I wholeheartedly agree, but I don't necessarily blame the fans who are still questioning the logic. I place a lot of blame on the FO for putting Mario in that position in the first place. They should have taken the effects you mention into consideration. The pressure of being No. 1 overall is strong enough; add being taken ahead of Bush, and it's unbelievable pressure to perform.

Taking him No. 1 overall means he will forever be linked to Bush, fairly or unfairly. If they had traded down, Mario gets a lot less of this attention. If they had taken Bush, Bush takes on what he's expecting, and Mario does the same.
If they trade down he is off the board. I think that argument is assuming way too much. If you want him...you got to take him where you are and not get cute.
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Old 08-18-2006   #11
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I'm sure he forgets about all the Bush talk on payday...........................
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Old 08-18-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joetexan
I wholeheartedly agree, but I don't necessarily blame the fans who are still questioning the logic. I place a lot of blame on the FO for putting Mario in that position in the first place. They should have taken the effects you mention into consideration. The pressure of being No. 1 overall is strong enough; add being taken ahead of Bush, and it's unbelievable pressure to perform.

Taking him No. 1 overall means he will forever be linked to Bush, fairly or unfairly. If they had traded down, Mario gets a lot less of this attention. If they had taken Bush, Bush takes on what he's expecting, and Mario does the same. They've basically set him up to fail miserably, because exceptional success is his only alternative.
I guess Casserly couldn't find the "trade down" button on his Blackberry.
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Old 08-18-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I don't think most players care what fans think at this point in their careers.

plus, I think we have a pretty level headed coaching staff to help guide him through the b.s.
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Old 08-18-2006   #14
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I remember when the Houston Rockets drafted Robert Horry with their first pick. Everybody was disgusted. The fans had wanted Harold Miner, the highly-trumpeted player from USC. When Horry's name was announced the crowd went wild with boos. The paper the next day said something about the "Horry-ble" pick.

Last I checked Robert Horry had 6 NBA Championship rings with several different teams. Harold Miner meanwhile has retired into obscurity...

Is bad press and intense pressure going to hurt Mario Williams' chances of success? If so, it will be his fault....
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Old 08-18-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I don't think most players care what fans think at this point in their careers.
Or at many other points. I know a lot of athletes don't respect sports journalists/commentators opinions much either. The players can see the spin a lot better than we do - they know the real story.
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Old 08-18-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
He has had 11 snaps....I think most people are making way too big a deal about this entire situation that will take years to assess. I don't think he is stressed out over it at all.
That where you wrong Vinny. YOU forget about he had 11 snaps in 4 different position as a rookie
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Old 08-18-2006   #17
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Every athlete's different. Some of them seem to take fan negativity harder than others. I think of course every athlete wants to be appreciated and celebrated, but some will be swayed less than others and that will translate to performace (or lack) differently in every individual.

As far as Mario, I've barely met the guy so it'd be pure speculation for me to comment on how it'll affect him. He strikes me as a level-headed kid and a hard worker, though, and just based on what I gather of him from various interviews and reports, I think he'll end up taking a lot of it with a grain of salt. I think if anything it will help to fuel him.

FWIW he seems to be pretty well liked. I've watched after camp as guys like Carr and even Andre Johnson walk off the field relatively unbothered, and the kids/fans are swarming Mario (don't take that as a sweeping statement, it's just what I observed one morning after one of the practices). As someone pointed out, there are tons of Mario jerseys floating around the stadium. Personally I don't buy a guy's jersey (I've bought four in my lifetime) unless I really like the player.
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Old 08-18-2006   #18
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all he has to do is look at his bank statement to relieve any stress he has
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Old 08-18-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seņor Stan
I guess Casserly couldn't find the "trade down" button on his Blackberry.
That, and...uhhh...THE FACT THAT NOBODY WAS INTERESTED IN TRADING UP FOR BUSH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
He has had 11 snaps....I think most people are making way too big a deal about this entire situation that will take years to assess. I don't think he is stressed out over it at all.
Exactly! Do these "critics" understand/comprehend how long it takes for a DE to realize the position? YEARS! According to Bruce Smith, he didn't feel comfortable in the NFL for several years, and the dude is one of the HoF greats at the position.

This instant gratification society of ours can't see the forest for the trees. But I'm sure they'll be all over buying no. 90 jerseys when Mario is eating QBs for breakfast in the future.
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Old 08-18-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansFanatic
I remember when the Houston Rockets drafted Robert Horry with their first pick. Everybody was disgusted. The fans had wanted Harold Miner, the highly-trumpeted player from USC. When Horry's name was announced the crowd went wild with boos. The paper the next day said something about the "Horry-ble" pick.

Last I checked Robert Horry had 6 NBA Championship rings with several different teams. Harold Miner meanwhile has retired into obscurity...

Is bad press and intense pressure going to hurt Mario Williams' chances of success? If so, it will be his fault....
Not a fan of NBA, but AM a fan of Robert Horry...
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