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Old 08-15-2006   #1
michaelm
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Default Mario: The Truth

Preface
I want to make it clear that this post is in no way an indictment of Mario Williams.
What we have seen from him so far is a little bit of training camp, and a single preseason game.
I am fully on the Mario bandwagon. I fully expect him to be dominant for years, long after Mr. Bush is out of the league (I hate to keep bringing these two up in the same post/thread, but someone will, it is inevitable, so I did it myself).

Again... I like Mario Williams, and think he will be an all pro very soon.

Statement
Although it has been stated many times in many threads on these boards, I'd like to correct a misconception.
Mario was not double teamed all game against KC.
Some of you have pointed this out already, and i'm not trying to steal your thunder. I just think that this deserved it's own thread, because so many people have taken that stance, based most likely on what they've read in previous posts.

I have watched the tapes, repeatedly.
There are two plays that I have seen where the initial blocker had help for a second or two, but there was no wholesale gameplanning to deal with Mario.
In fact, I saw Tony Gonzales stop him one on one on two seperate occasions.
Mario looked like a rookie, I'm sorry to say. Yes, he did seem to have an effect that allowed the other DLinemen to be more productive. Yes, He did show some pretty good upfield push. He showed good speed and movement.
He still looked like a rookie.
I know that this thread will draw alot of fire. Anyone who's familiar with my previous threads will agree that I am not saying these things to be incindiary, to be provacative, or to dog Mario.
This is just what I see, and wanted to displell the myth...
I don't want this to turn into a 'why didn't we take Reggie' thread.
That is so old and played out it's pityful.
I just want to put the truth out there.
Lets stop creating unrealistic expectations for all of these rookies. They will all progress at their own rates.
Mario will be fine, I'm sure of it. It's just that it is incorrect to say that he was double teamed all game long like many members have taken to saying.

There it is... fire away.
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Old 08-15-2006   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm
Preface
I want to make it clear that this post is in no way an indictment of Mario Williams.
What we have seen from him so far is a little bit of training camp, and a single preseason game.
I am fully on the Mario bandwagon. I fully expect him to be dominant for years, long after Mr. Bush is out of the league (I hate to keep bringing these two up in the same post/thread, but someone will, it is inevitable, so I did it myself).

Again... I like Mario Williams, and think he will be an all pro very soon.

Statement
Although it has been stated many times in many threads on these boards, I'd like to correct a misconception.
Mario was not double teamed all game against KC.
Some of you have pointed this out already, and i'm not trying to steal your thunder. I just think that this deserved it's own thread, because so many people have taken that stance, based most likely on what they've read in previous posts.

I have watched the tapes, repeatedly.
There are two plays that I have seen where the initial blocker had help for a second or two, but there was no wholesale gameplanning to deal with Mario.
In fact, I saw Tony Gonzales stop him one on one on two seperate occasions.
Mario looked like a rookie, I'm sorry to say. Yes, he did seem to have an effect that allowed the other DLinemen to be more productive. Yes, He did show some pretty good upfield push. He showed good speed and movement.
He still looked like a rookie.
I know that this thread will draw alot of fire. Anyone who's familiar with my previous threads will agree that I am not saying these things to be incindiary, to be provacative, or to dog Mario.
This is just what I see, and wanted to displell the myth...
I don't want this to turn into a 'why didn't we take Reggie' thread.
That is so old and played out it's pityful.
I just want to put the truth out there.
Lets stop creating unrealistic expectations for all of these rookies. They will all progress at their own rates.
Mario will be fine, I'm sure of it. It's just that it is incorrect to say that he was double teamed all game long like many members have taken to saying.

There it is... fire away.
With all that being said its gonna be nice to watch him develop into one of the top pass rushers in football.
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Old 08-15-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texflex513
With all that being said its gonna be nice to watch him develop into one of the top pass rushers in football.
I agree totally.
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Old 08-15-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm
Preface
I want to make it clear that this post is in no way an indictment of Mario Williams.
What we have seen from him so far is a little bit of training camp, and a single preseason game.
I am fully on the Mario bandwagon. I fully expect him to be dominant for years, long after Mr. Bush is out of the league (I hate to keep bringing these two up in the same post/thread, but someone will, it is inevitable, so I did it myself).

Again... I like Mario Williams, and think he will be an all pro very soon.

Statement
Although it has been stated many times in many threads on these boards, I'd like to correct a misconception.
Mario was not double teamed all game against KC.
Some of you have pointed this out already, and i'm not trying to steal your thunder. I just think that this deserved it's own thread, because so many people have taken that stance, based most likely on what they've read in previous posts.

I have watched the tapes, repeatedly.
There are two plays that I have seen where the initial blocker had help for a second or two, but there was no wholesale gameplanning to deal with Mario.
In fact, I saw Tony Gonzales stop him one on one on two seperate occasions.
Mario looked like a rookie, I'm sorry to say. Yes, he did seem to have an effect that allowed the other DLinemen to be more productive. Yes, He did show some pretty good upfield push. He showed good speed and movement.
He still looked like a rookie.
I know that this thread will draw alot of fire. Anyone who's familiar with my previous threads will agree that I am not saying these things to be incindiary, to be provacative, or to dog Mario.
This is just what I see, and wanted to displell the myth...
I don't want this to turn into a 'why didn't we take Reggie' thread.
That is so old and played out it's pityful.
I just want to put the truth out there.
Lets stop creating unrealistic expectations for all of these rookies. They will all progress at their own rates.
Mario will be fine, I'm sure of it. It's just that it is incorrect to say that he was double teamed all game long like many members have taken to saying.

There it is... fire away.
...and your point is???
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Old 08-15-2006   #5
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I think his point was, if were going to talk about Mario lets be honest and not make excuses for him.

He played like a rook.
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Old 08-15-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATHANHALE
...and your point is???
clearly stated in post #1.
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Old 08-15-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bomb
I think his point was, if were going to talk about Mario lets be honest and not make excuses for him.

He played like a rook.
"not make excuses for him." Hey, I like that. We certainly do not need a first round draft pick we have to make excuses for...
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Old 08-15-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATHANHALE
"not make excuses for him." Hey, I like that. We certainly do not need a first round draft pick we have to make excuses for...
Dude don't get so bent out of shape.

Everything he said was true, Mario wasn't doubled on almost every play, watch the game. Kubiak even said the same thing, he played like a rook.

now breathe and pull out the wedgie.....dang
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Old 08-15-2006   #9
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The truth about Mario won't be known for several months. We should have a pretty good idea of what we have by this time next year. Most people realize that. Others will continue to vehemently point fingers or defend depending what side of the line you're on.

Conclusions on Bush can be drawn first - probably by mid-season. Then Mario - by the end of '06 and into '07. Then Vince -- in that order.

Anyone drawing conclusions from one ESPN highlight needs to turn off the microwave and fire up the smoker.

Last edited by aj.; 08-15-2006 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 08-15-2006   #10
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Mario is a rookie--what exactly did you expect him to play like in his first game? He played like a rookie with potential so-like I asked before--your point is,,,,,,? That some posters say he got double teamed, when he didn't? OK...but he's still a rookie, right--or is that not true? And, Reggie, what does he have to do with this? But, koodos, at least you left Young's name out!
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Old 08-15-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bomb
now breathe and pull out the wedgie.....dang
He said wedgie...
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Old 08-15-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATHANHALE
Mario is a rookie--what exactly did you expect him to play like in his first game? He played like a rookie with potential so-like I asked before--your point is,,,,,,? That some posters say he got double teamed, when he didn't? OK...but he's still a rookie, right--or is that not true? And, Reggie, what does he have to do with this? But, koodos, at least you left Young's name out!
I feel the same way, he's a rookie.

You don't just come into your first couple of series in the NFL and start blowing people up.

The original poster was saying the same thing......He played like a rookie, because he is one. I think we're all on the same page here, he was just trying to clear up the misconception that Mario faced double teams all night....no biggie
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Old 08-15-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bomb
Dude don't get so bent out of shape.

Everything he said was true, Mario wasn't doubled on almost every play, watch the game. Kubiak even said the same thing, he played like a rook.

now breathe and pull out the wedgie.....dang
Yo,dude, I could care less about whether Mario got double teamed or not Saturday--we won, that's what matters to me. There were good performances Sat and there were not so good, some by rookies and some by veterans. I'm a firm believer in holding a player-rookie or veteran-accountable for his play on the field and that goes for every player--sure, the rooks are expected to play like a rook because that's what they are!!!!

"...he played like a rook." Well, duh, guess what (laughing). I'm breathing find, just laughing too much at the thought that Mario played like a 'rookie' and some posters said he was double team when he wasn't....geez, is that all there is??
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Old 08-15-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATHANHALE
Mario is a rookie--what exactly did you expect him to play like in his first game? He played like a rookie with potential so-like I asked before--your point is,,,,,,? That some posters say he got double teamed, when he didn't? OK...but he's still a rookie, right--or is that not true? And, Reggie, what does he have to do with this? But, koodos, at least you left Young's name out!
What I see is that you got mad at my post before you finished reading it...
Yes, my point was quite cleary to correct the opinion that Mario was double teamed all game when he wasn't.
Now, if you can stop being so freaking combative and read the end of my ORIGINAL POST, you will see that I suggested that we stop having unrealistic expectaions of these ROOKIES. And that they would progress at their own rates.
I am a Mario guy. I like Mario. I think he will be great.
He just wasn't double teamed... that's all.

Take a breath man. If you take the time to finish my post before you get angry at it, you will see that we share similar thoughts on the rookie part of the equation...
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Old 08-15-2006   #15
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OK..............so that means so far everybody that has posted here has had the same exact opinion...........................is there something I'm not getting
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Old 08-15-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bomb
OK..............so that means so far everybody that has posted here has had the same exact opinion.....................
Same opinion, different levels of reading comprehension.


...aimed at no one in particular... ...but definately not you.

Last edited by michaelm; 08-15-2006 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 08-15-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm
What I see is that you got mad at my post before you finished reading it...
Yes, my point was quite cleary to correct the opinion that Mario was double team when he wasn't.
Now, if you can stop being so freaking combative and read the end of my ORIGINAL POST, you will see that I suggested that we stop having unrealistic expectaions of these ROOKIES. And that they would progress at their own rates.
I am a Mario guy. I like Mario. I think he will be great.
He just wasn't double teamed... that's all.

Take a breath man. If you take the time to finish my post before you get angry at it, you will see that we share similar thoughts on the rookie part of the equation...
Where do you get this 'angry' stuff? Is a poster that comments on your post considered angry because he doesn't totally agree with you? Don't be silly!! I just don't understand the purpose of your post. Why? There have already been several posts on this topic of whether Mario was doubled team or not--ok, so your right! Then you bring up the Reggie debate but stress it is not your intention to start that all over again--so, why bring it up??

Mario played like what he is, a rookie. Saying that, I personally believe too many posters are going to judge Mario based upon the # of sacks he gets and that is incorrect. Sure, Mario will get sacks. But he will get so much more. He is expected to elevate the play of those around him (have we ever gotten 5 sacks in a game before?), free up other lineman to make plays by getting double teamed/playing multiple positions on the line/by being at different places at different times--by just plain wrecking 'havoc' any way he can. This will not happen over night but I believe it will happen. Kubiak wants our line to be relentless and unpredictable...

We can't always pick and choose which players we are patient with as fans, but I think we need to cut the 'rooks' a little slack..
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Old 08-15-2006   #18
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your preaching to the choir..................................
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Old 08-15-2006   #19
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Coming out of last years Draft, though not as big Shawn Merriman was probably the most comparable to Mario because he was such an extraordinary athelete and workout warrior with his combination of size, strength, and speed.
Merriman played both DE and OLB at Maryland and became the strongside
OLB in San Dieagos 3-4.
Merriman was so capable and effective in San Dieago that he not only
was named the Defensive ROY, he went to Honolulu as a starter in his first
NFL season. Merriman was the 12th player taken in the 2005 Draft.
I see no reason to expect any less from Mario in his rookie year.
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Old 08-15-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATHANHALE
Where do you get this 'angry' stuff? Is a poster that comments on your post considered angry because he doesn't totally agree with you? Don't be silly!! I just don't understand the purpose of your post. Why? There have already been several posts on this topic of whether Mario was doubled team or not--ok, so your right! Then you bring up the Reggie debate but stress it is not your intention to start that all over again--so, why bring it up??

Mario played like what he is, a rookie. Saying that, I personally believe too many posters are going to judge Mario based upon the # of sacks he gets and that is incorrect. Sure, Mario will get sacks. But he will get so much more. He is expected to elevate the play of those around him (have we ever gotten 5 sacks in a game before?), free up other lineman to make plays by getting double teamed/playing multiple positions on the line/by being at different places at different times--by just plain wrecking 'havoc' any way he can. This will not happen over night but I believe it will happen. Kubiak wants our line to be relentless and unpredictable...

We can't always pick and choose which players we are patient with as fans, but I think we need to cut the 'rooks' a little slack..
Correct me if I'm wrong, and believe me I love Mario, but didn't all of our sacks come when he wasn't in the game? I've only watched the game once on my DVR but as far as I could tell, all of our sacks came in the second half when Mario was not playing. None of this is meant to downgrade the abilities of Super Mario, but he definitely looked like a rookie, as everyone, according to you, has already professed.
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