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Old 08-14-2006   #1
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Default Reactions at Chiefs board about preseason loss to Texans

There's a poster there who is irate. A lot of posts about the "bootleg" killing them as always.

Basically, from what I can tell is that you have Dom Capers II running the Chiefs team right now.

The big gripe is that the offense looked very "vanilla" and that it was classic "Turtle mode" by Herm...that ball control/strong defense style that we all saw here in Houston for four years with Capers.

And then there are guys who are replying "It's just the preseason....it's just the preseason" and "We NEVER show our real offense in the preseason..." and "I'm not worried. These games are meaningless..."

Have we seen those kind of posts before?

Man, they are in for a long year if you ask me. That Chiefs team is going to suffer a slow death like we did IMO.

LJ did not seem to run with the same zip and power that he had ran with last season. It looked very odd, if you ask me. And I didn't put my finger on it until later yesterday when it dawned on me that they lost a great offensive coordinator and gained a very conservative coach in Edwards. And then it hit me: They've got Dom Capers as their head coach.

Lots of cliche talk in interviews.

Lots of ball control.

Lots of plain, ugly playcalling.

Sentimental favoritism towards certain players...LAUGHING at Printers when he flipped the ball to a receiver instead of throwing it with authority. I mean, would Parcells or Holmgren act like that? They'd stare a hole through the QB. Capers was like Herm, just a friendly boss who means no harm.

Yikes. That Chiefs team looked like our team the past four years. Correct?
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Old 08-14-2006   #2
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why do people like herm edwards so much? i've never understood.
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Old 08-14-2006   #3
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AFAIK, Printers is only the third string QB, if that. I beleive they even signed another guy who'll probably start ahead of Printers next week..... after Green of course.

I think they are worried alot about nothing. Personally, I don't like Herman Edwards..... he's got that, "I'm a smart guy, and you're not" attitude about him, that I could do without.

But there is nothing wrong with building a strong defense, and controlling a game by running it between the tackles...... that's just football.....

I also believe they were missing like 20 starters.... I'd expect them to be pretty vanilla missing 20 starters.
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Old 08-14-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
And then there are guys who are replying "It's just the preseason....it's just the preseason" and "We NEVER show our real offense in the preseason..." and "I'm not worried. These games are meaningless..."
And they are the only ones who get it.
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Old 08-14-2006   #5
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From what I remember hearing before the game, the Chiefs were very limited by injuries, so yeah, I haven't counted them out, and I think they will still make a hit this year. Course, could be we're so happy to not be decimated after our last encounter with the Chiefs...

Herm was trying moves and players out and not worrying too much about the score. Winning preseason games is not important. Making sure you are ready for the regular season is. However, in the Texans' case, I think winning in the preseason is part of restoring a winning swagger and so necessary for the team.
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Old 08-14-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerfulDragon
why do people like herm edwards so much? i've never understood.
well hes the same as capers, with a strong defense and a superior O-Line I think that style can be effective. cleveland back in the day used it, chicago also to a certain extent. but this is the chiefs and defense was not there strong point in the last 4 years. and now except for the middle they cant claim the best o-line either. so I dont think herm is a good fit. if they let him rebuild he may do better. but I dont see them giving him 4 or 5 years to go backward in offense just to go forward some in defense. just my oppinion
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Old 08-14-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerfulDragon
why do people like herm edwards so much? i've never understood.
Hey I predicted 34-17 cheifs. I bet they're upset. Shocked as Sage's , Wands and Demecos preformances. The line was very good. One mental error...for a first preseaon game...mind boggeling. Unheard of for a club this young. I'd say we're sneaking under a lot of folks radar. But remember...they did have eleven guys out. Let's not book any Miami hotel rooms just yet.

Yeah, agreed. I think Herm's running out of rope. He bailed on the Jets befor something caught up to him. Squeezing 8 in the box on LJ ain't going to work.
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Old 08-14-2006   #8
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Herm is transitioning the Chiefs from the big play attack mode of Vermiel/Saunders to his conservative grind it out style. It's just as important for him to have success (and win) in the preseason as any other new coach bringing in a new system, regardless of incumbent talent.

Buy-in is a big deal among NFL players and the sooner they can prove to themselves that the new system works, the sooner the buy-in. In addition to the players, their offensive coordinator, Mike Solari, will have to learn to adjust to the new philosophy in a big way.

Herm is a Vermeil buddy and we know how that buddy system can work (or not) at times.

Last edited by aj.; 08-14-2006 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 08-14-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
AFAIK, Printers is only the third string QB, if that. I beleive they even signed another guy who'll probably start ahead of Printers next week..... after Green of course.
They've got Huard and Brodie Croyle injured. That's going to be the #2 and #3 QB's right there. Printers isn't going to make this team. And on Thursday, they signed Jeff Smoker in the off chance that Printers got injured so they'd have a body to throw out there instead of Green's.
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Old 08-14-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
AFAIK, Printers is only the third string QB, if that. I beleive they even signed another guy who'll probably start ahead of Printers next week..... after Green of course.

I think they are worried alot about nothing. Personally, I don't like Herman Edwards..... he's got that, "I'm a smart guy, and you're not" attitude about him, that I could do without.

But there is nothing wrong with building a strong defense, and controlling a game by running it between the tackles...... that's just football.....

I also believe they were missing like 20 starters.... I'd expect them to be pretty vanilla missing 20 starters.
I've never been a supporter of 'fixing/changing something that's not broke' and KC had one of the best offenses in the league under Al Saunders. Edwards is like Capers, as his offensive style misses a primary ingredient that teams like the Pats and Steelers have--called scoring points. Most fans will accept any offense the team runs, as long as out scoring the other team is part of the equation.
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Old 08-14-2006   #11
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while losing to a 2-14 team is never a good thing, the cheifs are full aware of what denver coaching is capable of. i did think that their first string looked pretty strong though despite the "vanilla" playcalling. they were also missing brian waters, one of the best offensive linemen (and probably the best pulling guard) in football and LJ's going to find out very quickly that running isnt as much fun without tony richardson infront of him. their db's are very upgraded, and they've focused on the defensive side of the ball so the chiefs should be much more balanced this season.

that being said, their performance & everything followed has stunk of capers. maybe it can be accurately attributed to "it's just preseason" and more of a tryout than a game, but the rigidity of the way they played was painfully obvious. i'm not much of an edwards fan anyways, but the cheifs should be a little worried. they've got a lot of talent in the twilight of their careers, and they seem to be in the initial stages of rebuilding mode. while texans fans would assume that doom was nearing, i dont think the chiefs are going to be there this year. the veterans are going to be able to carry that team to one more run (trent green is THE most underrated qb in football). next season i'm afraid might get ugly in KC though.
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Old 08-15-2006   #12
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I think that team dies a slow death, sort of like we did.

He'll do OK this year. Then the next it'll get worse.

I just see it coming down the road for them. Their perfromance was "rigid" as someone else pointed out, it was pretty obvious that last year's team and this year's team is a lot different.

And I agree with what another perosn said about how Herm bailed from the Jets before it caught up with him. I mean, seriously: What have we seen out of the Jets the past few seasons? Anything spectacular? Anything other than Herm making grandstanding podium announcements? I know NY is a tought town, but he was running ot of rope there...and he is going to run out of rope in K.C.

That preseason game was a tale of two teams heading in two different directions. Injuries played a part, but that wouldn't change Herm's playcalling and philosophy...which as far as I can tell is just like Capers.

Al Saunders is going to take Washington to the next level. Period. He was to the Chiefs what Kubiak is to Houston: An aggressive playcaller with instincts. I saw an assistant on the sideline beside Herm (Hackett maybe?) and they were reassuring each other with a little mumbling and folded arms after a series of ugly plays that yielded nothing, as if they were telling each other "It's OK...yeah, we'll get it together...it's alright..." It just looked like a team who didn't have a happy and eager disposition about them when they were playing.

Just my two cents.
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Old 08-15-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
There's a poster there who is irate. A lot of posts about the "bootleg" killing them as always.

Basically, from what I can tell is that you have Dom Capers II running the Chiefs team right now.

The big gripe is that the offense looked very "vanilla" and that it was classic "Turtle mode" by Herm...that ball control/strong defense style that we all saw here in Houston for four years with Capers.

And then there are guys who are replying "It's just the preseason....it's just the preseason" and "We NEVER show our real offense in the preseason..." and "I'm not worried. These games are meaningless..."

Have we seen those kind of posts before?

Man, they are in for a long year if you ask me. That Chiefs team is going to suffer a slow death like we did IMO.

LJ did not seem to run with the same zip and power that he had ran with last season. It looked very odd, if you ask me. And I didn't put my finger on it until later yesterday when it dawned on me that they lost a great offensive coordinator and gained a very conservative coach in Edwards. And then it hit me: They've got Dom Capers as their head coach.

Lots of cliche talk in interviews.

Lots of ball control.

Lots of plain, ugly playcalling.

Sentimental favoritism towards certain players...LAUGHING at Printers when he flipped the ball to a receiver instead of throwing it with authority. I mean, would Parcells or Holmgren act like that? They'd stare a hole through the QB. Capers was like Herm, just a friendly boss who means no harm.

Yikes. That Chiefs team looked like our team the past four years. Correct?
I agree with guys who say it's only preseason. Heck, the Raiders are 2-0. The Chiefs will be a good team...just not a great one.
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Old 08-15-2006   #14
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Herm Edwards goes to the playoffs three out of five years with the Jets and the two years they miss are when their starting QB is hurt. Just want to frame it properly on how bad Edwards was with the Jets.
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Old 08-15-2006   #15
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Here's the thing:

Preseason DOES and DOES NOT matter...

In the scheme of the coaches gauging how much of their system the players have digested, what players are cut out for their team and the chemistry the team has developed...the preseason is of the utmost importance.


However...

In terms of stats and W/L records...preseason is meaningless. Great teams both win (Super Bowl Broncos) and lose (Colts last year) a majority of their preseason games.

Preseason is important for COACHES...not fans. For us, it's just a primer for the regular season and whatever goes on is virtually meaningles, unless an injury occurs.

As far as we're concerned...these games might as well be small scrimmages, and that's about it.
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Old 08-15-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Herm Edwards goes to the playoffs three out of five years with the Jets and the two years they miss are when their starting QB is hurt. Just want to frame it properly on how bad Edwards was with the Jets.
So Herm Edwards inherited a decent team. What kind of team was it when he left? Obviously you can't compare Capers in this regard, because Capers didn't inherit anything.
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Old 08-15-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCD
Here's the thing:

Preseason DOES and DOES NOT matter...

In the scheme of the coaches gauging how much of their system the players have digested, what players are cut out for their team and the chemistry the team has developed...the preseason is of the utmost importance.


However...

In terms of stats and W/L records...preseason is meaningless. Great teams both win (Super Bowl Broncos) and lose (Colts last year) a majority of their preseason games.

Preseason is important for COACHES...not fans. For us, it's just a primer for the regular season and whatever goes on is virtually meaningles, unless an injury occurs.

As far as we're concerned...these games might as well be small scrimmages, and that's about it.
IMO, your post misses on the fan issue, which has a lot to do with the circumstances of each team. Teams that have a history of winning use pre-season for 'fine tuning.' Teams that have new head coaches/new offenses/new defenses/etc. need pre-season to get 'game time' play to help 'install' everything/evaluate personnel/in grain new team philosophies/etc. Teams like the Texans take pre-season a step further in that their entire history as a team has been based upon 'losing,' and they need all the help they can get to change that foundation. The 'feeling' a player has of winning is not going to happen in a scrimmage 'setting' between a couple hundred fans--however, in a pre-season game it can.

IMO, comparing the Texans to that of the Pats(for example) needs in pre-season, are absurd. We have not won 3 Super Bowls. We have not won more games than we've lost. We have not been at or near the top in any important stat. We have, however, just finished a 'horrendous' season that was suppose to be a 'final tune-up' for our first winning season on the way to the play-offs---aka, the 5 yr plan. We failed...

Now, we are 'righting the ship' and moving forward and have taken many positive steps to--once agsin--move toward our goal of winning and making the playoffs. IMO, those that think the pre-season games-especially this year-are not important still have not learned from the debacle of last years pre-season. Finally, this team needs the 'winning' feeling anyway it can get it for the teams sake and the FANS.
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Old 08-15-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerfulDragon
why do people like herm edwards so much? i've never understood.


He did a great job with Tampa working under Dungy.

He's played in a superbowl

He's a quality human being, who teaches life as much as football

He's competive as a coach and is a tremendous motivator

He's hardworking, yet a dedicated family man.

He's had some hard luck with injuries with the jets but still took them to the playoffs every other year.

Miracle in the meadowlands, he's part of NFL history
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Old 08-15-2006   #19
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"because Capers didn't inherit anything."

Capers got a team with an entirely 'new' beginning, a team he could put his 'stamp' on from day one.

Capers got a team with brand new 'state of the art' facilities.

Capers got a fan 'base' of thousands and thousands.

Capers got a 'great' owner.

Capers got a 'second' chance to coach an NFL team. Think of all the Asst Coaches that would 'die' for just one...

Capers got a team with 'no' immediate pressure to win.

So, what did Capers give to the loyal fans?...sorry, new team or not, I've got no sympathy for Dom. We were a better team our first year than our last---for me, that says it alll!:brickwall
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Old 08-15-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EF55
He did a great job with Tampa working under Dungy.

He's played in a superbowl

He's a quality human being, who teaches life as much as football

He's competive as a coach and is a tremendous motivator

He's hardworking, yet a dedicated family man.

He's had some hard luck with injuries with the jets but still took them to the playoffs every other year.

Miracle in the meadowlands, he's part of NFL history
...except for the Super Bowl part, this sounds like Capers Bio. However, in his 2nd coaching stint, Edwards inherits a winning team with one of the most powerful offenses in the league--how will he do?
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