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Old 08-13-2006   #1
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Default Step to the light:Mario versus Bush

This debate is incredible..
How do you compare 2 different positions?

Where do you compare these guys?
What do you compare them to?
What is the standard that you set to compare them?

Bush gets stats in: rushes/yards/td's and receptions/yards/tds

Williams stats show up in tackles/assist tackles and sacks..

so with that said what is even comparable to the two is
Williams will or should command double teams..Bush will or should demand special defensive assignments due to speed.. Both players should open things up for others around them. only way to compare the two is how much does each player improve the stats of his side of the ball.. Williams should improve our defensive ranking, bush should inprove the offensive ranking of the saints.. that is the only similarities there is.


only notable stats you can compare is how many tackles and sacks does williams gets or how many td's does bush get?
that is the only noteable stats that can be looked at on paper.
How can you compare td's to sacks /tackles? how many tackles will equal to one of bush's Td's? 5? 6?

too many variables to compare two players at two totally different positons. ESPN is just trying to keep the ratings high and keep fueling the media train..
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Old 08-13-2006   #2
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oh btw bush had 0 tds' and mario had 0 sacks if you want to compare
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Old 08-13-2006   #3
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You can't compare them. We will have to wait until next year when Bush will go head to head against Mario (unless the unlikely scenario of a Saints - Texans Super Bowl occurs).
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Old 08-13-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
You can't compare them. We will have to wait until next year when Bush will go head to head against Mario (unless the unlikely scenario of a Saints - Texans Super Bowl occurs).
but how do you compare it? look at bush's long run against the titans... he went left then stopped and darted the other way.. if that was the Texans..that would tell me . Mario did his job and Bush had to dart away from him and backside didn't do their job.. you can't blame that on Mario(hypothetically)...

you can't compare them head to head.. this isn't Jordan versus Drexler or Hakeem versus Ewing..
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Old 08-13-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
but how do you compare it? look at bush's long run against the titans... he went left then stopped and darted the other way.. if that was the Texans..that would tell me . Mario did his job and Bush had to dart away from him and backside didn't do their job.. you can't blame that on Mario(hypothetically)...

you can't compare them head to head.. this isn't Jordan versus Drexler or Hakeem versus Ewing..
Sure you can. You try hard enough, you can eventually cram a square peg into a round hole.
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Old 08-13-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
but how do you compare it? look at bush's long run against the titans... he went left then stopped and darted the other way.. if that was the Texans..that would tell me . Mario did his job and Bush had to dart away from him and backside didn't do their job.. you can't blame that on Mario(hypothetically)...

you can't compare them head to head.. this isn't Jordan versus Drexler or Hakeem versus Ewing..
I realize that and you make a good point. It is really hard to compare offensive players to defensive players because what they bring to the table is so different. Were Shaun Alexander's touchdowns any more or less valuable than Troy Polamalu's tackles, sacks, or interceptions? Maybe, maybe not. Both were major players in their respective team's run to the Super Bowl.

What makes it even harder to compare is that both players are going to teams that have coaching staff overhauls, so how do you know if it is the player or the coach? Reggie is not the only new addition to the Saints offense and Mario is not the only addition to the Texans defense. Is it them, or are the other new additions also the reason for the improvement?
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Old 08-13-2006   #7
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The offense guys always get the press and the defense guys get the rings. All splash and flash won't win, but strangly enough, a real talented defense can win. See Bears and Ravens. Big defense little offense. The media (with their agenda) will always try the Bush/Mario thing but it is trully apples and orenges.
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Old 08-13-2006   #8
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Then I guess you can't compare our 2nd string DE (Travis LaBoy) to Larry Johnson. You can always compare players. Who played better? That's how you compare them.
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Old 08-13-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan
Then I guess you can't compare our 2nd string DE (Travis LaBoy) to Larry Johnson. You can always compare players. Who played better? That's how you compare them.
what is the criteria?
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Old 08-13-2006   #10
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Draft is over everyone, please move on...........Saints fans pray for Reggie to have a great year, Texans Fans pray for Mario to have a great year, and both stay healthy for our teams........that's all that really matters
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Old 08-13-2006   #11
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I agree with that Luv Ya Blue.. and I mentioned that in my original post

only way to tell is to see how much better the Texan defense is overall this year with him compared to last and vice versa for the Saints and their offense is overall..
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Old 08-13-2006   #12
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Also San antonio sports stations is getting into the mix.. I honestly belive it is a no win situation for the Texans this season.. S.A. station talked about how mario didnt' make an impact ...next went to Vince and his debut and his ankle... then went to "the player the Texans passed on, reggie bush" (showed the highlight)..so no win...if one week bush makes a play ..texans passed on this guy...next week if VY ...texans passed on this guy.. I guess the price you pay for #1 overall... I am thinking if MW doesnt' get a sack a game (12 for the season is what Peppers got) we will hear this all season.

only way is if the Texans improve as a team and go up in the standings over the Saints and Titans..
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Old 08-13-2006   #13
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very true LYB

It won't go away until the Texans go to the playoffs and the other teams don't IMO...
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Old 08-13-2006   #14
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My opinion is that going into the draft, Mario would have a bigger impact on the Texans than Bush would. We had a couple of solid defensive players, but couldn't put any real pressure on the line. Mario gave us that.

Bush, on the other hand, would have had to run behind an OL that hadn't exactly been world beaters & we had no way of knowing that we'd be able to pick up the players we did in the draft.

However, even with the talent we acquired on the OL, it's going to take some time before they become a cohesive unit. The DL has more latitude when it comes to working together as a unit. While they too, need time to gel together, they should be working as a cohesive unit much sooner than the OL.

With a year of seasoning, the OL should be ready for a premier RB next year. That's why I hope we'll be making a serious run at Adrian Peterson in next year's draft. He's got the breakaway speed & quickness of Bush, with the size & strength to take it up the middle.
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Old 08-15-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv_ya_blue
but you aren't saying the Saints OL are "world-beaters" are you? Great RB's (NOT saying AT ALL that RB is one) seen to find a way! Who knows how many yards B. Sanders would have had if he'd been running behind E. Smith's line?????
No. What I'm saying is that, running backs tend to have very short careers, & when you get a chance at a good one, you need to have a very good OL in place. That way, you get the most out of him. Otherwise, you could end up with one of the best RB's of all time (Sanders) & nothing to show for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv_ya_blue
Your comments "Mario gave us that..." are a little early on IMO. We haven't seen YET that he can tote the load and be that impact player. I hope that with a little time and coaching, he will grow into the man-child we all hope he really is. Just didn't see it yesterday.
Agreed. However, he's a rookie in his first NFL game. I believe, & reportedly so do his teammates/coaches, that he'll be a major force in the NFL. DE's tend to have very long careers (compared to RB's) & Mario (potentially) gives us the impact DE we've never had before. That is why I believe he was the better choice for the Texans.

By the way, he's already helping the team by drawing double teams from the start. That frees someone else up, & with the quality of our DL, that can only lead to good things for the good guys.
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Old 08-15-2006   #16
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Luv_ya_Blue makes a good point on Barry S. IMO, if he had run
behind that Dal Off Line, he would have rushed for 2,000 yds a season.

Being a Packer fan,(as well as a Texan fan), reminds me of how
GB passed up on BS with the 2nd pick for Tony Mandarich, OT from
MSU. The "Manster", half man, half monster, unfortunetly "ALL-BUST".
Aikman, D Thomas rounded out the top 4. Guess which one didn't become
a Hall-of-Famer?

Hottoddie is right about the Texans needing a good def player. Our
pass rush was pathetic. And I'm hoping MW will come around and
change that.
But, I can't see passing up a player like RB for MW.
The most exciting player last year was Mathis returning kickoffs. It would
have been nice having a player like Bush, who can break a long one.
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Old 08-15-2006   #17
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If you want to see how truely fickle the media is just wait and see if Bush gets hurt as most backs do these days. I don't wish the guy any ill will, but he is already labeled "soft". So lets not act like he is the golden child. ESPN is just jumping all over the Texans because its the popular opinion. Also Mario only had like 20 plays the other game. I'm sure if you look throughout the league most starting DEs dont have a sack either.
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Old 08-15-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotCommander
If you want to see how truely fickle the media is just wait and see if Bush gets hurt as most backs do these days. I don't wish the guy any ill will, but he is already labeled "soft". So lets not act like he is the golden child. ESPN is just jumping all over the Texans because its the popular opinion. Also Mario only had like 20 plays the other game. I'm sure if you look throughout the league most starting DEs dont have a sack either.
I haven't seen anyone yet label him as "soft." From what I have seen from him, the kid is as tough as he can be at his size. He didn't shied away from contact once yet and is willing to put down the shoulder at times (not always a successful endeavor at 204 lbs).

Other thing.. Being the #1 overall pick.. Williams isn't one of the "starting DEs" you speak of as he has a much more pressure from the media... People will be comparing him to Bush and Vince for the rest of their careers and if he doesn't live up to either one its going to be the "I told ya so" from anyone and everyone.

I agree with lyb.. How to compare these guys is how much they impact the outcome of a game. Its not a straight stats comparison.. #'s will be meaningless as should be W/L records unless one of them takes over the game like a Jordan can in the NBA.

Its simple... from who are you getting the most bang for your buck... who's making the most impact..
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Old 08-15-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edo783
The offense guys always get the press and the defense guys get the rings. All splash and flash won't win, but strangly enough, a real talented defense can win. See Bears and Ravens. Big defense little offense. The media (with their agenda) will always try the Bush/Mario thing but it is trully apples and orenges.
I agree with this. I also believe, MHO, that what is driving this, is ESPN tring to save face over the National title game. No matter what he dose, Mario will never be better than tinkerbell butt in their eyes. He can't be. For if he is they were dead wrong about Bush( the greatest RB in three generations) and USC ( the greatest college team of all time). And they were more than just unlucky with their analysis. They were just plain dead wrong. How can you be the expert of anything and be that wrong? They, ESPN, are circling the wagons. The rest of the press feeds off of them. We'll see who plays longer . Has the most pro bowls in their carrer. I take the 4.65, 300 lbs. guy myself, but hey that's just me.

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Old 08-15-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
but how do you compare it? look at bush's long run against the titans... he went left then stopped and darted the other way.. if that was the Texans..that would tell me . Mario did his job and Bush had to dart away from him and backside didn't do their job.. you can't blame that on Mario(hypothetically)...

you can't compare them head to head.. this isn't Jordan versus Drexler or Hakeem versus Ewing..
LOL, I'm reading the great run as: This little weasel still hasn't broken 1 between the tackles...yet. We heard he could hit it up where the big uglies play. Haven't seen it yet. But we're gauranteed he can do it. Just waiting for tinkerbell butt to walk the walk. We'll see. NFL will catch up to him. Won't take all that long either. Quicker than you can say 56 million was way toooo much for a part time back.
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