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Old 08-08-2006   #1
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Default David Carr 2nd best decision maker?

I didn't make this list so don't flame on me. Just posting what K.C. Joyner had to say. If you scroll down the list Carr is the second best decision maker behind only Tom Brady. I'm not saying I agree with what it says, I'm just posting it for the sake of argument.

Quote:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid..._kc&id=2542482

The most common types of bad decisions are:

1. Forcing a pass into coverage
2. Staring at a receiver
3. Throwing the ball despite being tackled
4. Misreading a zone defense and not seeing a defender in the passing lane.

If the quarterback's mistake did not lead to a turnover (e.g., a dropped interception, a recovered fumble, etc.), the mistake is given only one bad decision point. If the mistake led to a turnover, however, it is given two mistake points and also is subject to a graduating scale of points based on how damaging the turnover was (e.g., an additional point for an interception killing a scoring drive, another additional point if the interception led to the opponent's being set up in scoring position, etc.). The scale has an upper limit of five points for any single bad decision.

Scientific Football 2006 can be ordered now from KC Joyner's website.Bad decision rankings are based on two percentage bases. The first is the standard bad decision percentage. To calculate this, I take the number of bad decisions a quarterback generated and divide it by the total number of attempts. The second percentage rating is the weighted bad decision percentage. This is calculated by taking the number of bad decision points and dividing it by the total number of attempts.

Rank-------Player ------- Team ------------Bad decision/Mistake %
1.------Tom Brady -----Patriots ---------------- 0.7
2. -----David Carr ----- Texans ------------------1.6
3. -----Peyton Manning -Colts -------------------1.7
4. -----Drew Bledsoe ---Cowboys ----------------1.9
5. -----Jake Plummer ---- Broncos ---------------- 2.1
This was on free ESPN insider.
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Old 08-08-2006   #2
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if 2. is indeed a sign of a bad decision maker, then this guy was clearly on the sauce when he wrote that list.
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Old 08-08-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude Abides
I didn't make this list so don't flame on me. Just posting what K.C. Joyner had to say. If you scroll down the list Carr is the second best decision maker behind only Tom Brady. I'm not saying I agree with what it says, I'm just posting it for the sake of argument.

This was on free ESPN insider.
Your going to get any argument, and that as far as i read so far.
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Old 08-08-2006   #4
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It's just the way he rated it and the fact that it appears he didn't assign a mistake for eating the ball or for causing a sack. That said, there's a lot to be said for the fact that a turnover is infinitely worse than a sack leading to a punt ... simple math conveniently ignored by the anti-Carr agenda.
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Old 08-08-2006   #5
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I'm still waiting for some anti-Carr sentiment here. This is another thing that goes to prove what I have suspected all along.... if the boy has protection, he can make the play. He either got it done, or got a sack. That does not bother me.
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Old 08-08-2006   #6
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This is another example where the results from the theory should cause the writer to reconsider the methodology. No way you've got a valid methodology if it ranks Carr #2 in the league last year. I suspect if some weighted factor was added in to consider the yards per attempt or nature of the O being run you would find Carr (5.88 ypa) falling significantly and Big Ben rising significantly (8.9 ypa).
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Old 08-08-2006   #7
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Interesting way to look at things. It shows that perception is a choice at times. I don't recall a player in recent memory that had such extreme opinions from fans.

If you look at it from this guy's perspective, then Carr would have a winning record if he was Patriot and Brady would be hurting from 200 sacks over the past four seasons as a Texan.
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Old 08-08-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
This is another example where the results from the theory should cause the writer to reconsider the methodology. No way you've got a valid methodology if it ranks Carr #2 in the league last year.
A classic anti-Carr argument. Wonderful.

If any study is conducted where Carr ends up looking good, then the study was obviously flawed.

I call you out on flawed logic instead.
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Old 08-08-2006   #9
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This guy did the same thing last year and Carr was ranked really high. Doesn't really mean anyhting IMO. Carr needs to play better along with the other fellas.
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Old 08-08-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
This guy did the same thing last year and Carr was ranked really high. Doesn't really mean anyhting IMO. Carr needs to play better along with the other fellas.
Of course it means nothing. Statistics mean absolutely nothing. And I agree, he does need to make better decisions. But it's funny how some people respond to Carr studies on this board. In their eyes there is nothing that can make him look respectable. Jeez.
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Old 08-08-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
This guy did the same thing last year and Carr was ranked really high. Doesn't really mean anyhting IMO. Carr needs to play better along with the other fellas.
From his 2005 article
Quote:
That also leads me to a question I received via e-mail. A few people wrote in and asked me how it was that David Carr had only 10 bad decisions in 2004, yet he threw 14 interceptions. There were actually a couple of reasons for that. One is that I was missing a few plays from Carr's 2004 season, two of which were interception plays.

The second and more important point is that not all interceptions are the result of bad decisions. Two of David Carr's 2004 interceptions came from passes that were tipped at the line of scrimmage by defensive linemen. That type of play would not be listed as a bad decision because Carr didn't make a field vision or judgment error. That same type of reasoning is used on a jump ball. If Daunte Culpepper threw a fade pattern to Randy Moss last year, and the cornerback outjumped Moss for an interception. Is it right to charge Culpepper with a bad decision? In that case, the interception would have come more from the cornerback's good play than anything Culpepper did wrong.
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Old 08-08-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansLucky13
Of course it means nothing. Statistics mean absolutely nothing. And I agree, he does need to make better decisions. But it's funny how some people respond to Carr studies on this board. In their eyes there is nothing that can make him look respectable. Jeez.
from reading the little bit of premise given in the Original Post...... this looks like a good thing..... & I will resist my natural instinct to "spin" this........ and you know I can.

David Carr's Good Points: Strong Arm.... Mobile..... Smart.... and tough as nails...

I can agree with that.
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Old 08-08-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerek
It's just the way he rated it and the fact that it appears he didn't assign a mistake for eating the ball or for causing a sack.

shew....... I thought I would have to say it..... thanks pal.
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Old 08-08-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansLucky13
A classic anti-Carr argument. Wonderful.

If any study is conducted where Carr ends up looking good, then the study was obviously flawed.

I call you out on flawed logic instead.
If you paid any attention around here at all you would realize I am not anti-Carr and watching football games last year instead of just cheerleading makes it pretty obvious Carr was not the 2nd best decision maker in the NFL.
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Old 08-08-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
from reading the little bit of premise given in the Original Post...... this looks like a good thing..... & I will resist my natural instinct to "spin" this........ and you know I can.

David Carr's Good Points: Strong Arm.... Mobile..... Smart.... and tough as nails...

I can agree with that.
I agree. I know you can spin it, haha... and I sorta expected it. Props to you for having an objective view of this study. I personally see it as just another playing chip for my arguments against the anti-Carr crowd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
If you paid any attention around here at all you would realize I am not anti-Carr and watching football games last year instead of just cheerleading makes it pretty obvious Carr was not the 2nd best decision maker in the NFL.
Lately you have shown a little distaste for him. I myself thought it was strange, because I would not put you in the anti-Carr crowd on a normal basis. Whats wrong with you lately?

I don't cheerlead.... I study. As I said before if you were paying attention.... Carr needs some work. But he isn't half as bad as many want to make him out to be. I'm tired of hearing it and having to propose a stronger argument to counter a bit of bias.
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Old 08-08-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansLucky13
Lately you have shown a little distaste for him. I myself thought it was strange, because I would not put you in the anti-Carr crowd on a normal basis. Whats wrong with you lately?

I don't cheerlead.... I study. As I said before if you were paying attention.... Carr needs some work. But he isn't half as bad as many want to make him out to be. I'm tired of hearing it and having to propose a stronger argument to counter a bit of bias.
I don't know what I have said that could be interpreted as distaste for Carr--anything you want to point me to? I call 'em like I see 'em. If I see Carr at mid pack I will counter a post which says either he is great or sucks. Folks at the extremes somehow twist that into being in the camp of the opposite extreme.
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Old 08-08-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
If you paid any attention around here at all you would realize I am not anti-Carr and watching football games last year instead of just cheerleading makes it pretty obvious Carr was not the 2nd best decision maker in the NFL.
Look....... stop taking cheap shots at our QB......... if you're going to root for the Texans, you have to understand the only way we'll be successful, is for Carr to be successfull.


People like you really bring this MB down..... disagreeing with everybody and all.....



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Old 08-08-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
I don't know what I have said that could be interpreted as distaste for Carr--anything you want to point me to? I call 'em like I see 'em. If I see Carr at mid pack I will counter a post which says either he is great or sucks. Folks at the extremes somehow twist that into being in the camp of the opposite extreme.
Yea, I made that same point when I was dicussing how liberals view Fox news as an extreme conservative news station even though they try to stay as moderate as possible.

I know you are pretty moderate about things infantrycak, but I read someof your posts the other day that were making me scratch my head. Sorry I don't have time to find them, I need to take my sis to colorguard.

The only thing I challenged was your original post. Other than that its all good. You gotta take this study at what its worth, and we all know that Carr can improve. I especially know that.
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Old 08-08-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansLucky13
Lately you have shown a little distaste for him. I myself thought it was strange, because I would not put you in the anti-Carr crowd on a normal basis. Whats wrong with you lately?

I'm giving you positive reps for this one....... finally, some one to call infantrycak out..... show us the real infantrycak.....
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Old 08-08-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
This is another example where the results from the theory should cause the writer to reconsider the methodology. No way you've got a valid methodology if it ranks Carr #2 in the league last year. I suspect if some weighted factor was added in to consider the yards per attempt or nature of the O being run you would find Carr (5.88 ypa) falling significantly and Big Ben rising significantly (8.9 ypa).

I think he was only looking at mistakes, and the lack there of, not counting good decisions..... which is what you'd think, but just counting how many times the bad decisions really hurt your teams chance of winning.
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